What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

[Warp9]

Re: What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

 

GM permission is the only way to handle it by current RAW.

 

I consider this to be one of the last big holes left in the rules.

 

I agree. But, as has been pointed out already in this thread, having ultra high move characters creates problems if you are using the scale of standard minis. And I think that is why combat motion was set as linear by the original designers, otherwise you'd need a room the size of a football field to run your games.

 

However, I think we could adapt if we used the standard of +10 points doubles combat velocity, whereas +5 points doubles non-combat velocity.

 

+10 per doubling helps keep combat velocities down, unless you want to spend big points, but it still allows higher point characters to have VAST combat velocities.

 

And the +10 points to double velocity keeps pace with the idea that +5 points doubles kinetic energy (2 X velocity = 4 X KE), which in turn mirrors the +5 points = double power approach.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

 

I agree. But, as has been pointed out already in this thread, having ultra high move characters creates problems if you are using the scale of standard minis. And I think that is why combat motion was set as linear by the original designers, otherwise you'd need a room the size of a football field to run your games.

 

However, I think we could adapt if we used the standard of +10 points doubles combat velocity, whereas +5 points doubles non-combat velocity.

 

+10 per doubling helps keep combat velocities down, unless you want to spend big points, but it still allows higher point characters to have VAST combat velocities.

 

And the +10 points to double velocity keeps pace with the idea that +5 points doubles kinetic energy (2 X velocity = 4 X KE), which in turn mirrors the +5 points = double power approach.

 

 

Using that approach a character with a 60 point movement multipower could add a 20" with a x4 combat multiple for a total of 80".

 

Think about all the new Move By specialists (it's only a -2 OCV maneuver) that would create (doing 16 DC's BEFORE figuring in STR/2).

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

 

Approaching the issue from the opposite side of the equation we could allow characters to by CSL's that only apply to OCV while moving at non-combat speeds. The trick is to add the same non-combat adder cost to each level (basically something similar to everyone's favorite part of making custom martial art maneuvers with advantages).

 

Using this method the cost scales with the amount of non-com the character can reach. A character with no extra non-com movement pays +5 extra points for each and every OCV CSL (only usable at non-com speeds) that they want. If they have a x4 non-com they pay an extra +10 per level, etc.. .

 

Megascale could use the advantage approach (like custom martial art maneuvers) but I think a flat +25 or +30 adder per level of megascale per CSL would work.

 

This feels right to me considering how much time and money goes into fighter pilot dogfight training.

[Sean Waters]

Re: What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

 

The problem here, I believe, is that we are looking for a cheap way to buy lots of combat velocity without paying full whack for it but not being penalised. In other words we are just saying 'combat movement costs too much'. I dont think it does, but if you do, here's a way around it but get it quick because I suspect this trick won't work in H6.

 

50 point multipower

5 Flight 25"

5 Gliding 50"

 

Bingo.

 

Other than that, even if you COULD remove non-combat penalties and wind up moving at 100" per phase rather than 20" for the same cost, you shouldn't. It undermines the whole point of a point based system.

[Markdoc]

Re: What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

 

Using that approach a character with a 60 point movement multipower could add a 20" with a x4 combat multiple for a total of 80".

 

Think about all the new Move By specialists (it's only a -2 OCV maneuver) that would create (doing 16 DC's BEFORE figuring in STR/2).

 

Think of the multiple moveby specialists. 10 points for +5 OCV with moveby and you can drop that 16d6+ on half your opponents in one phase.

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

 

The problem here' date=' I believe, is that we are looking for a cheap way to buy lots of combat velocity without paying full whack for it but not being penalised.[/quote']

 

I agree. I don't think there's a problem with the cost of movement (haven't heard any complaints since the introduction of megascale, at least). The simplest approach from my viewpoint would simply to be to buy all your movement with "non non-combat multiple" and then buy it up to the level you want, simply defining the upper half as "noncombat". That way the chracter operates normally even at "noncombat" speed.

 

cheers, Mark

[Warp9]

Re: What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

 

Using that approach a character with a 60 point movement multipower could add a 20" with a x4 combat multiple for a total of 80".

 

Think about all the new Move By specialists (it's only a -2 OCV maneuver) that would create (doing 16 DC's BEFORE figuring in STR/2).

 

The problem is that you are still trying to combine linear motion with exponential motion.

 

All linear is fine.

 

All exponential is fine.

 

Trying to combine the 2 leads to problems.

 

My way, there would be no more 1" per 2 points. (that is a linear formula)

 

The new movement power table would look like this:

 

Points  Velocity per Seg       Damage
0              1/2"           0d6
10             1"           2d6 (10 points running is default)
20             2"           4d6
30             4"           6d6
40             8"          8d6
50             16"         10d6
60             32"         12d6
70             64"         14d6
80             128"        16d6
90             256"        18d6

The character with the 60 point multipower could go 32" per segment and do STR + 12d6 if he fully slammed into his opponent (move through).

 

Move By could either be half damage. . . .

 

Or

 

You could combine the move-through / move-by rules.

 

As I'd do it, I'd modify things so that you can attack and use your STR + some (or all) of the velocity damage listed above. However, any velocity damage which you use, you also take.

 

Thus a person with 60 points of flight (32" per seg) and 25 points of STR could do 5d6 (STR) + up to 12d6 (velocity). The 5d6 is damage free, but any of that 12d6 he uses, he'll also take.

 

Assuming that this person in the above example chooses to fly by and do a glancing blow (4d6 from velocity), his target takes STR + 4d6 (or 9d6), and he takes 4d6.

 

On the other hand, if he'd used all 12d6 from velocity (more like straight out slamming into the opponent), he'd do STR + 12d6 (or 17d6), and he takes 12d6.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

 

The new movement power table would look like this:

 

Points  Velocity per Seg       Damage
0              1/2"           0d6
10             1"           2d6 (10 points running is default)
20             2"           4d6
30             4"           6d6
40             8"          8d6
50             16"         10d6
60             32"         12d6
70             64"         14d6
80             128"        16d6
90             256"        18d6

 

I like this. It is like the Strength table, the colour (travelling speed, lifting) works for the genre stuff while the game mechanic aspect is based on the damage caused.

 

I think I will use this in my games though might have to give a thought for heroic characters - for supers and vehicles I have no doubts as to whether it will work...

 

 

Doc

[Istaran]

Re: What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

 

Nice one. It conveniently also gets rid of the SPD (reaction time) being proportional to inches of movement per turn. (Now two people who pay for the same movement power move the same rate per phase.)

 

Though I'd look at some way of pro-rating it so you can get more granularity.

[Warp9]

Re: What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

 

Nice one. It conveniently also gets rid of the SPD (reaction time) being proportional to inches of movement per turn. (Now two people who pay for the same movement power move the same rate per phase.)

 

Though I'd look at some way of pro-rating it so you can get more granularity.

You can get a bit more detail if you want. In fact, for any number of points you might want to plug in, you can figure out how fast you go.

 

The basic formula would be as follows:

 

1 meter per segment X 2^(points / 10)

 

OR

 

6" per turn X 2^(points / 10)

 

 

Although you might need a calculator to figure those fractional exponents.

 

However, instead of dealing with fractional exponents, you could just assume a linear progression between each of the 10 point marks (which is what I've done below).

 

I've also gone with "inches per turn" rather that "inches per segment," that way I don't have to use fractional hexes at the lower levels.

 

Anyway, here is the same concept from my other chart described in a point by point basis. . . .

 

 

Pts | Velocity

 

00 = 6" per turn (or 1/2" per segment)

 

01 = 7" per turn

02 = 7" per turn

03 = 8" per turn

04 = 8" per turn

05 = 9" per turn

06 = 10" per turn

07 = 10" per turn

08 = 11" per turn

09 = 11" per turn

10 = 12" per turn (or 1" per segment)

 

11 = 13" per turn

12 = 14" per turn

13 = 15" per turn

14 = 16" per turn

15 = 18" per turn

16 = 19" per turn

17 = 20" per turn

18 = 21" per turn

19 = 22" per turn

20 = 24" per turn (or 2" per segment)

 

21 = 26" per turn

22 = 29" per turn

23 = 31" per turn

24 = 34" per turn

25 = 36" per turn (or 3" per segment)

26 = 38" per turn

27 = 41" per turn

28 = 43" per turn

29 = 46" per turn

30 = 48" per turn (or 4" per segment)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

 

I agree. I don't think there's a problem with the cost of movement (haven't heard any complaints since the introduction of megascale' date=' at least). The simplest approach from my viewpoint would simply to be to buy all your movement with "non non-combat multiple" and then buy it up to the level you want, simply defining the upper half as "noncombat". That way the character operates normally even at "noncombat" speed.[/quote']

 

The answer to the question "What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?" is "The costing of combat movement".

[Marcus]

Re: What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

 

The answer to the question "What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?" is "The costing of combat movement".

 

Rep.

[JmOz]

Re: What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

 

How do you add megascale to noncombat movement?

 

For example, if I have megascale flight, and want to have the same speed when I am in combat, how do I price that out?

 

I am getting a sneaking suspicion it is one of those things we are Not Meant to Do, and as such would have a ridiculous point cost.

 

PS. Did 4th Edition have this combat and noncombat movement?

 

 

Multiply your movement by 500 for the first level of megascale, x10 for each additional, apply the -1/4 no noncombat movement limitation, that should just about do it,

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What costing for noncombat movement without penalty?

 

Multiply your movement by 500 for the first level of megascale' date=' x10 for each additional, apply the -1/4 no noncombat movement limitation, that should just about do it,[/quote']

 

I think that horse is dead