JmOz Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 OK, here is the challange for the hero community. 30 Active points Cap, must stop 60 Active points of electrical powers , can be all or nothing, should work fairly quickly. Real cost is not important here, but the Active points cap is... F/X is a powder that hits the electrical villain and then they can no longer use there powers until it is washed off (With water, or scraped up) as the thread says this is open for any abusive build you guys can think of... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers You called? I'm looking at EDM... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers Wow, I did not expect the wish fulfiment version of EDM till post 15 or so, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers Right now I am leaning towards something like this Dispel 1d6, AOE (One Hex; +1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Continuous (+1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Cumulative (96 points; +1 1/2), all [special effect] powers simultaneously (+2), Autofire (10 shots; +1), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1) (30 Active Points) then some lims like OIF, Range based on str, must use autofire to full effect (-0), a charge limitation (might rework it to continuing charges and drop the uncontroled advantage), can be missile deflected, etc... but limitations are not part of this exercise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers Dispel 1d6' date=' AOE (One Hex; +1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Continuous (+1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Cumulative (96 points; +1 1/2), all [special effect'] powers simultaneously (+2), Autofire (10 shots; +1), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1) (30 Active Points) Why is sticky in there? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers Why is sticky in there? Doc I'm guessing because the described special effect is a powder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers I'm guessing because the described special effect is a powder. Just coz the powder is stick doesn't mean the power is... Is the thought that physical contact between the person hit and someone else would mean that person gets afeected too? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers target is the hex, area gets hit, anyone in the area has the effect "ongoing" because of the sticky even if they leave the area effected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comic Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers So.. why not Mental Paralysis version of Entangle, limited to use of Electrical powers? How much Ego do your electrical energy projectors have? This is assuming you only want to stop the powers from going out, not from coming in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers So.. why not Mental Paralysis version of Entangle, limited to use of Electrical powers? How much Ego do your electrical energy projectors have? This is assuming you only want to stop the powers from going out, not from coming in. Actualy by f/x (a absolutly non conductive powder) It would be both ways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers Actualy by f/x (a absolutly non conductive powder) It would be both ways By f/x then you have to be looking at entangle or force wall... ...makes it expensive. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers Dispel shuts it off, but he can turn it back on when his phase comes up. It won't re-dispell until your phase. What you want is 0 END Continuous Suppress. The powder makes contact and suppresses every phase thereafter, cumulatively. Suppress 1d6, AOE (One Hex; +1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Continuous (+1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), all [electrical] powers simultaneously (+2) (30 Active Points) This is a bit more gradual in turning off his powers, but will certainly get there. For more immediate impact: Suppress 1/2d6, AOE (One Hex; +1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Continuous (+1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), all [electrical] powers simultaneously (+2), Autofire 10 shots (+2), difficult to dispel (+1 1/2 - just to build up the AP) (30 Active Points) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers Isn't Suppress continuous by default? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers Isn't Suppress continuous by default? yes and no, the attack portion is instant, the keep the power turned down is continous, in this case the continous would be for making attack roll after attack roll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers Assuming a superheroic game and an average OCV of 8, hitting a hex you have a 5 point advantage which should translate into about 3 or 4 shots hitting the hex you are aiming for. Even for the dispel build, which does 1d6 per hit you are looking at probably 5 phases to switch off his powers if you fire and forget, or 3 phases if you continually re-apply. You could buy up your OCV with the attack to make more shots hit, but even saying it makes me feel dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers yes and no' date=' the attack portion is instant, the keep the power turned down is continous, in this case the continous would be for making attack roll after attack roll[/quote'] I still don't understand the point of adding Continuous to Suppress. Each instance of Suppress costs END each and every phase to maintain. This can probably be mitigated by using Continuing Charges but using a Drain seems to make more sense IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers I really hope my GM isn't watching this thread. My wife plays an electrical character... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted August 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers I still don't understand the point of adding Continuous to Suppress. Each instance of Suppress costs END each and every phase to maintain. This can probably be mitigated by using Continuing Charges but using a Drain seems to make more sense IMO. The point of continous added to suppress is as follows: It allows for multiple suppressess to "Stack up" without the player making constant attack rolls, the continuing charges is a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers What is the mechanical difference between using a Continuing Charge Supress vs. a Drain? 60 Drain 0 1/2d6, Variable Targets (+1/4), Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Ranged (+1/2), Difficult To Dispel (x4 Active Points; +1/2), Continuous (+1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Mobile (+1), Can Apply (Remove) Adders (+1), all [electrical] powers simultaneously (+2), Autofire (10 shots; +2) (60 Active Points) - END=0 60 Suppress 1d6, all [electrical] powers simultaneously (+2), Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Variable Targets (+1/4), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Difficult To Dispel (x4 Active Points; +1/2), Continuous (+1), Can Apply (Remove) Adders (+1), Mobile (+1), 125 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Minute each (+1 1/2), Autofire (10 shots; +1), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1) (60 Active Points) - END=[125 cc] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers A non-continuous suppress: you roll and hit and the suppress continues whilst you maintain it, as it is continuous already. However, if you want to upt he level of suppress you need to roll to hit again. A continuous suppress: you roll and hit and the suppress continues whilst you maintain it, as it is continuous already. However, if you want to up the level of suppress you just roll 'damage' and add (and pay the END, of course) - no need to to roll to hit again. It depends how the 'powder power' works - if you need new applications to increase the level of effect then you want the non-continuous version. If it works its way in and has an increasing effect over time then you want the continuous suppress. That's my understanding anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comic Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers IMO, wouldn't allow it. The flat-out powers of Dispel, Drain, Force Wall, and Suppress which are closest to this effect cannot hit All Electrical (+2) effects at the 60 AP level for 10 AP. Anything that gives this effect for a lower AP cost is simply not going to make it into my game. As a Mental Entangle, say a 'pain powder' that causes intense pain when Electrical powers are attempted and so forces an Ego check to use Electrical abilities, I'd allow, though it's not what's asked for, so I wouldn't force the square peg into the round hole. There might be powers that give greater effect (say XDM UAO) that include this effect as a subset, but that's a different question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted August 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers IMO, wouldn't allow it. The flat-out powers of Dispel, Drain, Force Wall, and Suppress which are closest to this effect cannot hit All Electrical (+2) effects at the 60 AP level for 10 AP. Anything that gives this effect for a lower AP cost is simply not going to make it into my game. As a Mental Entangle, say a 'pain powder' that causes intense pain when Electrical powers are attempted and so forces an Ego check to use Electrical abilities, I'd allow, though it's not what's asked for, so I wouldn't force the square peg into the round hole. There might be powers that give greater effect (say XDM UAO) that include this effect as a subset, but that's a different question. I actualy agree with you in concept, thus the title that clearly (at least to me) indicates that this is to construct something that is inherently abusive and with the exception of maybe a one off use in a VPP would never be allowed (And you would be buying the pizza that night for putting it in the VPP...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers My biggest concern would be the precedent set. If this works for all electrical powers, a similar construct for any SFX is also do-able. While the mechanics are an interesting exercise, I doubt I would allow these carte blanche. And I suspect my players would agree it should not be permitted, as it would work just as well for NPC's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted August 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers My biggest concern would be the precedent set. If this works for all electrical powers, a similar construct for any SFX is also do-able. While the mechanics are an interesting exercise, I doubt I would allow these carte blanche. And I suspect my players would agree it should not be permitted, as it would work just as well for NPC's... true, and like I said this is mostly an exersice in system abuse, while I MIGHT allow it as a do it once to advance the story, I would have a problem allowing it on a regular basis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Re: Anti-electrical power, a thread for munchkins, rules lawyers, and rules abusers Since you asked for the abuse, I'll toss in Change Environment. The environment is an electrically insulated area, which by Living in a Dangerous World would reduce electrical damage by roughly 50% and make the equivalent damage classes from killing to normal, or from normal to stun only. Suddenly that 4d6 RKA (14 BODY, 37 STUN) becomes 6d6 Normal (6 BODY, 21 STUN). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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