URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Curufea]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Oh, and my favorite urban fantasy books were the "Knight of the Word" series by Terry Brooks. Monster Hunting at its finest.

 

Will you be including a monster or two? Or just refering to the Bestiary?

 

Would The Host and Cloverfield be considered Urban Fantasy?

[Sociotard]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I wouldn't think so. Giant Monster movies are a genre more related to Disaster movies than Fantasy. I mean, I could replace the monster in Cloverfield with some kind of earthquake or tsunami and get a very similar story.

[Curufea]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I dunno, there is a shock of the normal meeting the fantastical. It's much like Spyderwick Chronicles or other fairy movies. It's just that the fantasy monster(s) is bigger and not necessarily able to be dealt with by the PCs.

[bubba smith]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

maybe a composite of vibora bay and hudson city is in order

[Steve Long]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

to adapt Hudson City you'd have to strip out the Uber-corruption of the place

 

I disagree. There's no reason an Urban Fantasy story can't take place in a corrupt modern metropolis. Might provide an added dimension or two to a Monster-Hunting campaign, f'rex.

 

Will you be including a monster or two? Or just refering to the Bestiary?

 

Generally speaking, just referring to the HSB -- that's why we've got it. If a new monster or two, or variants of existing monsters, justified it, I'd certainly include them in UFH, but by and large I don't anticipate that being necessary.

 

Would The Host and Cloverfield be considered Urban Fantasy?

 

I don't know The Host, but Cloverfield definitely isn't. Neither are superheroes, unless you stretch the definition of "Fantasy" to the point where it loses all meaning.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I disagree. There's no reason an Urban Fantasy story can't take place in a corrupt modern metropolis. Might provide an added dimension or two to a Monster-Hunting campaign' date=' f'rex. [/quote']

 

 

Okay... I'd be stripping out the corruption....

[Kristopher]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

If you consider WW's Vampire or Werewolf, and similar works, to be urban fantasy, then there's a lot of corruption in some urban fantasy.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Being one of my favorite genres, one of the things I have always struggled with is the balance of tech vs. magic. Not in the literary sense so much as the literal character point sense.

 

These settings are often about guns, money, and action. The issue of cybernetics is relatively easy to address since they generally can't be taken away, much like the spells one might know.

 

But guns, gear, etc. are all foci that, within the paradigm of the real world, anyone can acquire as many as they want with pure simple cash.

 

Now, resource pools kind of address this, but not really. One of the biggest complaints I got from players in my UF campaign was paying points for a flashlight or a knife. Even guns met with some resistance. Perhaps its the gold-piece guns as treasure mentality that shapes that perception, but I can't help but agree with them to a certain extent.

 

I'd like to see some real suggestions how to price magic/integrated tech in character points such that guns, and perhaps lots of them, are a secondary issue.

 

Example: Why should a player invest 15-20 points in a 2d6 RKA (assuming limitations) when he can just get a gun?

 

If you have to pay points for guns without using resource pools I think that works with one sort of "signature gun" trope, but doesn't fit in the Cyberpunk/Shadowrun veins, which have lots of guns/equipment per character... all governed by cash.

 

I think this issue can be addressed outside of any particular setting, but I'd like to see a solution for it.

 

SETTINGS PREFS:

Seelie vs. Unseelie

Masters of Fate (ala Nightwatch/Daywatch)

 

TOOLS PREFS:

Write-ups of vampires, werewolves, etc as player characters, not as monsters. A single write-up per, with maybe some suggested options. I know there are examples of these in bestiary and such, but those are more focused on being a monster type instead of a player type. If the campaigns normally start at 150 points or 200 points, what is a base vampire template look like, or lycanthrope, or sidhe, or demon (etc.). Perhaps a discussion of these "templates" in heroic games and a suggestion that the "monster disads" are above and beyond the campaign limits, offsetting perhaps the increased cost of the character types.

 

Thanks.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Somewhere in the book, there really should be at least a passing mention of over-the-top weirdness -- the sort where Djinns fight both sides of the War On Terror, Vampires have taken over La Cosa Nostra, Bigfoot is running for the US Senate, and Frankenstein's Monster has become a law clerk in Van Nuys.

[Curufea]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I don't know The Host' date=' but Cloverfield definitely isn't. Neither are superheroes, unless you stretch the definition of "Fantasy" to the point where it loses all meaning. [/quote']

 

Ah now, I disagree to that. Unless you narrow fantasy down to mean something smaller than "not reality"

 

But is there a difference between normal folk in an urban setting encountering the fantastical? Be they fairies, monsters or demigods? They're all the result of fantasy and at the most are attempted to be rationalised with rubber science.

The way to make superheroes(demigods) feel more like this new combined genre title "Urban Fantasy" as defined in wikipedia - possibly the best source for modern common usage, it's just a matter of presentation.

Superheroes to Urban Fantasy-

1) the PCs aren't the superheroes.

2) the superheroes aren't common knowledge.

3) the PCs discover a method of detecting superheroes.

4) the superheroes are fantastical (ie, choose the ones with the least rubber science origins).

 

Then you have the basis for an "Urban Fantasy". Any trope with fairies or other fantastical creatures, could just have the word "superhero" inserted, and still work.

 

I'd also like to point out that as the Hero system is all about the fundamentals of character design - you could just take all the stats of a superhero character, and rename them to form a fantasy creature.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I know I and others have talked about the science and sorcery Shadowrun thing, but what about the "magic in an absolutely rational world" stuff we saw in a ton and a half of X-Files episodes? There were times when Mulder and Scully were investigating vampires and satan-worshipping, spell-throwing witches and djinnis and werewolves and ghosts and whatever the hell Eugene Tooms was... just because the other half of the episodes dealt with weird science doesn't mean they didn't deal with magic too. So where would that fall?

[ghost-angel]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Ah now, I disagree to that. Unless you narrow fantasy down to mean something smaller than "not reality"

 

But is there a difference between normal folk in an urban setting encountering the fantastical? Be they fairies, monsters or demigods? They're all the result of fantasy and at the most are attempted to be rationalised with rubber science.

The way to make superheroes(demigods) feel more like this new combined genre title "Urban Fantasy" as defined in wikipedia - possibly the best source for modern common usage, it's just a matter of presentation.

Superheroes to Urban Fantasy-

1) the PCs aren't the superheroes.

2) the superheroes aren't common knowledge.

3) the PCs discover a method of detecting superheroes.

4) the superheroes are fantastical (ie, choose the ones with the least rubber science origins).

 

Then you have the basis for an "Urban Fantasy". Any trope with fairies or other fantastical creatures, could just have the word "superhero" inserted, and still work.

 

I'd also like to point out that as the Hero system is all about the fundamentals of character design - you could just take all the stats of a superhero character, and rename them to form a fantasy creature.

 

You have to narrow "Fantasy" down - especially when talking about sub-genre.

 

Otherwise you get things like Romance Fantasy which, as far as the Romance Novel industry is concerned is "everything not real" so a Romance set in a Space Opera style is the exact same genre as a Romance set in a High Fantasy style - which is Romance Fantasy. And of absolutely NO help to the reader at all.

 

So no, Superheroes are absolutely NOT Urban Fantasy in any stretch of the UF genre. If they are there it is because you are mixing genres.

 

One must Absolutely limit what a genre is and know when to add on other genre titles as they freely mix things around.

/threadjack

[JmOz]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

You have to narrow "Fantasy" down - especially when talking about sub-genre.

 

Otherwise you get things like Romance Fantasy which, as far as the Romance Novel industry is concerned is "everything not real" so a Romance set in a Space Opera style is the exact same genre as a Romance set in a High Fantasy style - which is Romance Fantasy. And of absolutely NO help to the reader at all.

 

So no, Superheroes are absolutely NOT Urban Fantasy in any stretch of the UF genre. If they are there it is because you are mixing genres.

 

One must Absolutely limit what a genre is and know when to add on other genre titles as they freely mix things around.

/threadjack

 

I think that there is at least some grey areas, thinking of Buffy as a good example here

[Curufea]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I think that there is at least some grey areas' date=' thinking of Buffy as a good example here[/quote']

 

Also Hancock springs to mind, as does Heroes.

[Markdoc]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Being one of my favorite genres, one of the things I have always struggled with is the balance of tech vs. magic. Not in the literary sense so much as the literal character point sense.

 

These settings are often about guns, money, and action. The issue of cybernetics is relatively easy to address since they generally can't be taken away, much like the spells one might know.

 

But guns, gear, etc. are all foci that, within the paradigm of the real world, anyone can acquire as many as they want with pure simple cash.

 

Now, resource pools kind of address this, but not really. One of the biggest complaints I got from players in my UF campaign was paying points for a flashlight or a knife. Even guns met with some resistance. Perhaps its the gold-piece guns as treasure mentality that shapes that perception, but I can't help but agree with them to a certain extent.

 

I'd like to see some real suggestions how to price magic/integrated tech in character points such that guns, and perhaps lots of them, are a secondary issue.

 

Example: Why should a player invest 15-20 points in a 2d6 RKA (assuming limitations) when he can just get a gun?

 

In our games that mixed the two (or which matched magic and psionics), it was never a problem. If a mage wanted a gun, he got a gun. If on the other hand, he wanted a 2d6 RKA that he could take into a closely guarded building or onto a plane, or one that might look like natural causes, or one he could use on a target on the other side of the city, he used a spell. In practice, even where a gun was available, mages preferred spells, because they had levels in spellcraft but hadn't bothered to buy any in guns.

 

That meant people who relied on mundane equipment had more points to spend in skills and physical stat.s which offset to some extent the fact that they had access to a much more limited set of powers.

 

One other option, which we used in a short-lived urban horror/fantasy game was that mundane (ie: free) equipment automatically took a disadvantage Susceptible: magic which meant that the equipment took double damage from magical attacks and did half damage against magical defences. So a 6d6 dispel technology spell could cause any handgun to malfunction, but had little or no effect on my priest's twin .45s (bought with points) because they had been blessed and warded with holy signs Likewise, a forcefield that would stop only normal bullets wouldn't work so well against my attacks.

Basically in that setting normal equipment was free, but unreliable.

 

cheers, Mark

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

In our games that mixed the two (or which matched magic and psionics), it was never a problem. If a mage wanted a gun, he got a gun. If on the other hand, he wanted a 2d6 RKA that he could take into a closely guarded building or onto a plane, or one that might look like natural causes, or one he could use on a target on the other side of the city, he used a spell. In practice, even where a gun was available, mages preferred spells, because they had levels in spellcraft but hadn't bothered to buy any in guns.

 

That meant people who relied on mundane equipment had more points to spend in skills and physical stat.s which offset to some extent the fact that they had access to a much more limited set of powers.

 

[nostalgia]Sweet, cynical Cynosure, built where the multiverse meets. Cross the street and sometimes you've crossed a dimension! The laws of physics change from block to block. Magic works here, science over there. Swords work everywhere.[/nostalgia]

 

I wonder what genre Grimjack falls into. Maybe X-Files and Grimjack, and a few others, need Genre Crossing Hero.

[Markdoc]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

[nostalgia]Sweet' date=' cynical Cynosure, built where the multiverse meets. Cross the street and sometimes you've crossed a dimension! The laws of physics change from block to block. Magic works here, science over there. Swords work everywhere.[/i'][/nostalgia].

 

Cool - I'd forgotten that quote. As an aside, in my dimension-hopping Immortals game, Masters of Luck and Death, swords were a favoured weapon for exactly that reason: guns worked some places, and not others, magic the same. But pretty much everywhere, things reacted poorly to a sharp piece of metal through the body.

 

cheers, Mark

[bubba smith]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

something along the lines of big trouble in little china

[MPT]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Survivability: In a world where someone can shoot a sub-machine gun at you, and where you are unlikely to be walking round in plate armour, how can you survive combat (and 'Combat Luck' is not an option).

 

Write-ups of vampires' date=' werewolves, etc as player characters, not as monsters. A single write-up per, with maybe some suggested options. I know there are examples of these in bestiary and such, but those are more focused on being a monster type instead of a player type. If the campaigns normally start at 150 points or 200 points, what is a base vampire template look like, or lycanthrope, or sidhe, or demon (etc.). Perhaps a discussion of these "templates" in heroic games and a suggestion that the "monster disads" are above and beyond the campaign limits, offsetting perhaps the increased cost of the character types. Thanks.[/quote']

 

This would be a must ... If nothing else it may get some of the 'World of Darkness' crowd playing HERO.

 

In an American setting I'd like to see some write-ups for various supernatural creatures which could have been imported by various immigrants.

 

African spirits and gods.

 

Aztec, Incan etc deities.

 

Native American beings such as Wendigo and cloud spirits.

 

Loa and the like.

 

And of course Christian beings such as Angels and Devils. Perhaps with rules for the use of 'Faith' or 'Christian Magic' as a power. Angelology and Demonology.

 

Secret societies are cool to. Templars, Masons and Rosicrucians. That sort of thing.

 

I would certainly like to see these ... but ... it depends on if the 'monster' side of the campaign is one where the creatures are known or unknown. If unknown then we need monsters which the players know nothing about ... but perhaps this starts to move 'Urban Fantasy' into the 'Pulp' or 'Horror' genres?

[albin]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Nice to see that so many has mentioned Hudson City. I would like to see a lot of material for incorporation magic and fantasy elements in Dark Champions. Using an Ingram in one hand and throwing fireballs with the other certainly has an appel to me.

 

The problems I've had before in Urban Fantasy, set in Hudson City, is balance between players. Those who focus on magic tend to fall behind those who focus on mundane equipment. A magic pool added to the Resource Pool would probably even things out a bit. I guess that spellcasting then would require a Spellbook, or more likley a PDA with spells, since the Resource Pool isn't for innate abilities. Anyway, I would like to see some rules for this since I really like the Resource Pool in Dark Champions and I think it would balance things out when compairing a handgun with a firebolt-spell.

 

Also, some technomany spells would be needed since the FH Grimoires lack these. Some of the schools in those books has little place in Urban Fantasy, like Druidry.

 

When it comes to settings I like both the "open" Shadowrun type where everyone knows magic exist and trolls work as bouncers and the secret societies/concpiracy type of setting. I love DEMON and would like some guidelines on how to use them in UF.

 

Sorry about my poor english skills, the only words I normaly say in english is stuff like "Energy Blast", "Major Transform" and so on...

[Nolgroth]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A magic pool added to the Resource Pool would probably even things out a bit.

Hey that's not necessarily a bad idea. Probably have to buy some sort of Talent that allows for magic.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I guess that spellcasting then would require a Spellbook' date=' or more likley a PDA with spells...[/quote']A spell book stored in a PDA has a lot of interesting possibilities. Just imagine one with especially powerful spells as an adventure's Maguffin.

 

More mundanely, I can picture a spellcaster using his PDA and a Bluetooth earpiece to feed him the correct pronunciation of his spell's Incantations.

Sorry about my poor english skills, the only words I normaly say in english is stuff like "Energy Blast", "Major Transform" and so on...

It's not so bad. I've seen worse -- from fellow Americans.

[BlackSword]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

It's not so bad. I've seen worse -- from fellow Americans.

Time to provide an example.

 

While I know when most people think of urban fantasy they think of modern world with magic elements, I would also like to see some information on a fantasy world that has become industrialized. Something like has been seen in Final Fantasy 7, and "Red Star." More high or even epic level magic in a modern setting where aircraft don't necessarily fly by physics, but some are powered by magic strong enough to fly an airship.

[GreyGuardian]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Urban Legends and conspiracies as the driving myth behind the magic system. For example Ars Magica's magic system requires the magic to fit the "known" facts of the world. It's based on myths and rumors that were prevalent around 1200 AD. For urban fantasy driving myth are current urban legends. A subset would be childhood myths like the monster under the bed and the boogie man are both quite real.

 

A monsters section base on Snopes supernatural horrors and other current myths.

 

Psychic detectives

 

Police use of the supernatural and evidence rules for supernatural evidence. (probably similar to changes made for super hero powers and such)

 

Combat Magicians - military use of the supernatural. I started reading Gravel by Warren Ellis last night. The main character is an SAS soldier who is also a minor magician (as in real magic not slight of hand). He tends to interact with weird horrific supernatural occurrences. Which means shoot a lot of things with guns and use illusions and misdirection to avoid damage as well being a nasty SAS guy.

 

Something on cover-ups and conspiracies in general probably fits in the mix as well.

 

Perhaps something about the mythic creatures (elves, trolls, dragons, etc.) having disappeared at the end of the dark ages are now re-appearing and how they interact with modern technology.

 

A section on modern real world magic (voodoo, Brujería, Appalachian folk magic, native American magic, as well as Aztecs and Mayans and so on). Some of this is probably in the Ultimate Mystic and a cross reference would probably be sufficient.

[teh bunneh]

Re: URBAN FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Urban Legends and conspiracies as the driving myth behind the magic system. For example Ars Magica's magic system requires the magic to fit the "known" facts of the world. It's based on myths and rumors that were prevalent around 1200 AD. For urban fantasy driving myth are current urban legends. A subset would be childhood myths like the monster under the bed and the boogie man are both quite real.

 

I like that.