Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

[Labrat]

I was writing up a dwarven paladin to Ziandwyrth (TA Lord of Chaos, but also the god of luck, chaos, humor and madness) and I got on an interesting thought process surrounding how one would worship such a diety. He is considered an 'evil' god relative to the Blues and Grays, but how can the god of humor be 'evil'?

 

So would a priest of Ziandwyrth be like Jerry Seinfeld trying to say a Catholic Mass? I would expect goofing-off and even disrespect (roasting) of Ziandwyrth to be in order during the service. What a neat concept.

 

How would a Paladin of Ziandwyrth act? He would go about sowing and reaping chaos from law-abiding towns, no? How would the undead respond to his 'Turning' power? (I didn't even bother buying 'Turn Undead' for him.)

 

It's fun to think about...

 

Your thoughts?

[teh bunneh]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

He is considered an 'evil' god relative to the Blues and Grays' date=' but how can the god of humor be 'evil'?[/quote']

 

Could be "mean" humor. You know, making fun of a guy who's really sensative about his weight. Or dropping a banana peel where someone is bound to step on it and hurt themselves. Slapstick humor is (at least partially) about hurting someone to cause a laugh. "The pain of other people is funny" could be a motto worshippers live by.

[Labrat]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

Very true...

 

As a matter of fact one of my favorite sayings is:

 

"If somebody falls down, and you don't laugh, then you weren't paying attention..."

 

And 'Good Humor' should be covered by Leche, the God of Dairy Products, anyway. (ba-dum BAH!)

[bubba smith]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

hhe could be a loki type that way he'd be evil

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

Agreed, sounds like a very thin LOKI parallel.

[Labrat]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

hhe could be a loki type that way he'd be evil

 

Again, true... and I think that was Steve's intent, but the core of the issue is what would his priests and paladins be about and how would it fit into the common role-playing tropes?

 

In one light a 'Paladin of the Lord of Chaos' would be the classic 'Anti-Paladin' but in addition to the negative foil for a 'good paladin' there are elements here like luck and humor that might get one out of the mired old 'black armored death machine' archetype. At least as I'm thinking of it.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

Again, true... and I think that was Steve's intent, but the core of the issue is what would his priests and paladins be about and how would it fit into the common role-playing tropes?

 

In one light a 'Paladin of the Lord of Chaos' would be the classic 'Anti-Paladin' but in addition to the negative foil for a 'good paladin' there are elements here like luck and humor that might get one out of the mired old 'black armored death machine' archetype. At least as I'm thinking of it.

 

Why are you approaching this from that perspective in the first place?

 

Personally, I've never been into the rigid and narrow D&D "Paladin" concept. I've always favored the idea of a "Dedicated Warrior" or "Exponent" who worships a deity and is invested with Granted Abilities appropriate to that deity. I've had a large array of such exponents over the years, for all manner of deities and with all manner of distinct abilities. They really have nothing in common with each other beyond a similar means to power.

 

I'm not familiar with this particular source material, but some ideas for an exponent of a entity of chaos are abilities that make the character better able to thrive in chaotic situations, benefit from randomness, resist opposing ordered / static / lawful abilities, and to create dynamic / unsettled / loose situations.

 

One approach would be to go heavy on the "LUCK / RANDOM" side. Read Requires A Skill Roll with the LUCK ROLL option. Buy some luck, and buy some abilities leveraging that mechanic.

 

Another approach is a Change Environment, No Range, Personal Immunity that forces DEX rolls and DCV penalties. SFX: Everyone around the character suffers bad luck, slip ups, etc.

 

Another approach is DCV with an Activation Roll -- effects just randomly "miss" the character that shouldnt due to the most unusual of coincidences or circumstances -- gee aren't they lucky.

 

And so on.

 

 

As to the "HUMOR" aspect of such a character, that's really more of a roleplaying aspect than a mechanic -- The players should be laughing if its supposed to be humorous and no game mechanic can intrinsically force them to find something funny. Its more of an attitude than an ability. If the player of the character pulls it off, reward them with more XP which translates into more power for the character.

 

However, you could represent humor mechanically in game if you are less in character and more gamist. A big outcome of humor is to make people like you, so PRE, PRE based skills, and perks such as a positive Reputation, Favors, Contacts, and Followers are appropriate. You could even buy abilities No Conscious Control with the SFX that the character has to use such abilities in a way that is quirky / funny or else they don't work -- if people laugh around the table the GM decides the ability works and if its not funny then it doesn't work. Which might itself be funny and perhaps fuel another power

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

Chaos, madness, humour and luck.

 

He sounds like a jester or a harlequin. A mad, laughing being who leaves confusion and turmoil in his wake. Humour is a pleasant thing but the laughter of a madman can be very threatening and disturbing. If you went that route then you could really freak people out by picking inappropriate things to laugh at.

 

He could just have an irrepressible sense of humour that never lets up. He'll take the piss out of the enemy even as he's carving them up.

 

Alternatively you could give him a theme. I created a priestess of the god of madness once who had seen earthly cheerleaders in a vision and so adapted the rather bizarre art of cheerleading into a form of worship and spellcasting. She only appeared in a single one off game but she did manage to start a cheerleading cult of Madness amongst a friendly tribe of local lizardmen.

 

If you really want to push the 'good' angle then I suppose he would have no respect for authority and would dedicate himself to destroying or weakening the forces of tyranny, this could mean anything from aiding rebels to kidnapping a tyrranical nobleman and putting him in the stocks or simply dropping creating a satirical song about a bad ruler. All this would be calculated to create the maximum amount of chaos while destroying evil.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

Some thoughts on the potential philosophy of this deity's humor/madness:

 

Laugh at the world or it will laugh at you.

 

 

Actually, that pretty much sums up everything I have to contribute at the moment.

[Bismark]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

I have posted a character below, which you may find inspirational:

 

Not a Paladin of Ziandwyrth, or even a cleric, but a follower (indeed, a follower of my old Turakian Age campaign party's resident 'friendly necromancer', 'Etwas Anderes'), this woman/girl was decidedly odd.

 

Her tutor/master had a morbid fear of badgers (??!!), so she carried a cuddly stuffed badger around and waved it in his face whenever she thought he was being hard on her . She also took great pleasure in seeing him humiliated - not actually seriously hurt (because she wanted to learn stuff off him and actually liked him).

 

She used to wear a mask to cover her face - her COM score relates to her face, not the rest of her body, which would probably equate to COM 14 or thereabouts... (and she wore figure-hugging, translucent dresses, for additional effect).

 

 

 

[b]Ophelia - [/b]

[b][u]VAL[/u]   [u]CHA[/u]   [u]Cost[/u]   [u]Total[/u]   [u]Roll[/u]      [u]Notes[/u][/b]
8    STR     -2   8      11-       HTH Damage 1 1/2d6  END [2]
14    DEX     12   14      12-       OCV 5 DCV 5
10    CON     0   10      11-
8    BODY    -4   8      11-
18    INT     8   18      13-       PER Roll 13-
13    EGO     6   13      12-       ECV: 4
13    PRE     3   13      12-       PRE Attack: 2 1/2d6
-18    COM     4   -18      5-
2    PD      0   2             2 PD (0 rPD)
2    ED      0   2             2 ED (0 rED)
3    SPD     6   3                 Phases:  4, 8, 12
5    REC     2   5
20    END     0   20
17    STUN    0   17
6    RUN      0   6"                END [1]
2    SWIM     0   2"                END [1]
2    LEAP     0   1 1/2"                1 1/2" forward, 0 1/2" upward

[b]CHA Cost: 35[/b]

[b][u]Cost[/u]   [u]POWERS[/u][/b]
13     Luck 4d6 (20 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Only when serving Ziandwyrth's purposes; -1/2) - END=0
10     [b][i]Belzorath's Spell Of Waking Dreams[/i][/b]: Sight, Hearing and Touch Groups Images Increased Size (2" radius; +1/4) (25 Active Points); Requires A Sorcery Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) - END=2
13     [b][i]Prismatic Blast[/i][/b]: Energy Blast 4d6, Attack Versus Limited Defense (Sight Group Flash Defense; +1 1/2) (50 Active Points); OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; small topaz crystal; -1 1/4), Requires A Sorcery Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Limited Range (40"; -1/4) - END=5
6     [b][i]Detect Illusion[/i][/b]: Detect illusions 15- (no Sense Group), Discriminatory, Range (17 Active Points); Costs Endurance (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Requires A Sorcery Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) - END=2
3     [b][i]Detect Invisibility[/i][/b]: Detect invisibility 17- (no Sense Group), Range (12 Active Points); OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; finely-ground amber lens; -1 1/4), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Requires A Sorcery Roll (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, to cast, -1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) - END=1
13     [b][i]Spell Of The Diverse Self[/i][/b]: Sight and Hearing Groups Images Increased Size (4" radius; +1/2), -5 to PER Rolls (45 Active Points); Set Effect (duplicates of the caster; -1), No Range (-1/2), Requires A Sorcery Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) - END=4
8     [b][i]Sicard's Spell Of The Varying Visage[/i][/b]: Shape Shift  (Sight, Hearing and Touch Groups, any humanoid form), Imitation, Costs END Only To Change Shape (+1/4) (45 Active Points); OAF Expendable (Very Difficult to obtain new Focus; drop of blood from a masquer; -1 1/2), Extra Time (1 Minute, Only to Activate, -3/4), Concentration, thoughout casting (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Gestures, throughout casting (-1/2), Incantations (throughout casting; -1/2), Requires A Sorcery Roll (-1/2) - END=4
9     [b][i]Petros' Spell of Elusion[/i][/b]: Invisibility to Sight Group, Normal Smell, Normal Taste and Normal Hearing  (29 Active Points); OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; perfectly clear polished quartz crystal; -1 1/4), Requires A Sorcery Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) - END=3
4     [b][i]Wizard's Hand[/i][/b]: Telekinesis (10 STR) (15 Active Points); OAF (hand-shaped talisman made of precious wood or stone; -1), Requires A Sorcery Roll (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Affects Whole Object (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) - END=1
4     [b][i]Mending-Spell[/i][/b]: Healing BODY 2d6 (20 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Turn, -1 1/4), Inanimate Objects Only (-1), Concentration, throughout (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Gestures, throughout (-1/2), Incantations (throughout; -1/2), Requires A Wizardry Roll (-1/2) - END=2
4     [b][i]Visage of pure chaos[/i][/b]: Ego Attack 1d6, Trigger: when anyone looks at her real face (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action to reset, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger, Misfire; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (17 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Gradual Effect (20 Minutes; -1) - END=0
4     [b][i]Blessing of the Laughing God[/i][/b]: Suppress Magic 4d6, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger; +1/4) (25 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Limited Power Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (Only when Ziandwyrth wishes; Requires 1 level of Luck; -1 1/2), 4 Charges (-1) - END=[4]

[b]POWERS Cost: 91[/b]


[b][u]Cost[/u]   [u]SKILLS[/u][/b]
3      Magic Skill:  Sorcery 13-
1      WF:  Blades
1      WF:  Thrown Knives, Axes, and Darts, Thrown Rocks
3      Faith 12-
0      Bureaucratics 8-
1      Lockpicking 8-
1      High Society 8-
0      First Aid 8-
1      Bribery 8-
2      KS: Principles of Magic 11-
11      Magic Skill:  Sorcery 17-
2      Stealth (Everyman) 12-
2      Acting (Everyman) 12-
2      PS: Seamstress 11-
2      PS: Shadow puppetry 11-
2      Concealment (Everyman) 13-
0      Conversation 8-
3      Mimicry (Custom Adder) 13-
0      Climbing 8-
0      Breakfall 8-
0      Shadowing 8-
0      Streetwise 8-
3      Magic Skill:  Wizardry 13-
0      Language:  Aarnese (idiomatic; literate) (5 Active Points)

[b]SKILLS Cost: 40[/b]

[b][u]Cost[/u]   [u]PERKS[/u][/b]
2      Money:  Well Off (scholarship)

[b]PERKS Cost: 2[/b]

[b][u]Cost[/u]   [u]TALENTS[/u][/b]
3      Magical Talent
6      Combat Luck (3 PD/3 ED)

[b]TALENTS Cost: 9[/b]
[b][u]Value[/u]  [u]DISADVANTAGES[/u][/b]
0     Normal Characteristic Maxima
10     Psychological Limitation:  Disassociated from reality (Common, Moderate) [Notes: Other habits: (1) compulsive prankster; (2) always cheerful, even in inappropriate situations; (3) secretly voyeuristic; (4) Friendly; (5) Dainty]
10     Reputation:  Dangerous and unpredictable wild talent, 14- (Known Only To A Small Group)
20     Distinctive Features:  Horrific mass of swirling multi-coloured polygons for a face (Concealable; Extreme Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
0     Hunted: Aarn Mages' Guild:  11- (Mo Pow, NCI, Limited Geographical Area, Watching, [not counted towards total points])
0     Hunted:  'Etwas Anderes' 8- (Mo Pow, Mildly Punish, [not counted towards total points])
0     Psychological Limitation:  Must act shy/demure if anyone is watching (Common, Strong, [not counted towards total points])
10     Psychological Limitation:  'Loyal to Ziandwyrth' (Uncommon, Strong)

[b]DISADVANTAGES Points: 50[/b]

Base Pts: 80
Exp Required: 47
Total Exp Available: 47
Exp Unspent: 0
Total Character Cost: 177

[Labrat]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

Why are you approaching this from that perspective in the first place?

 

I'm not really soliciting mechanics, it's more of a philosophical thread. I don't really need help in the 'how to do this' department... but thanks for your comments.

[Steve Long]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

"The pain of other people is funny"

 

I once read a comedy maxim that went something like this: if it happens to you, it's tragedy; if it happens to someone else, it's comedy. ::drumroll::

 

Interesting topic, Labrat -- thanx for starting it!

[Labrat]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

Chaos, madness, humour and luck.

 

He sounds like a jester or a harlequin. A mad, laughing being who leaves confusion and turmoil in his wake. Humour is a pleasant thing but the laughter of a madman can be very threatening and disturbing. If you went that route then you could really freak people out by picking inappropriate things to laugh at.

 

He could just have an irrepressible sense of humour that never lets up. He'll take the piss out of the enemy even as he's carving them up.

 

Alternatively you could give him a theme. I created a priestess of the god of madness once who had seen earthly cheerleaders in a vision and so adapted the rather bizarre art of cheerleading into a form of worship and spellcasting. She only appeared in a single one off game but she did manage to start a cheerleading cult of Madness amongst a friendly tribe of local lizardmen.

 

If you really want to push the 'good' angle then I suppose he would have no respect for authority and would dedicate himself to destroying or weakening the forces of tyranny, this could mean anything from aiding rebels to kidnapping a tyrranical nobleman and putting him in the stocks or simply dropping creating a satirical song about a bad ruler. All this would be calculated to create the maximum amount of chaos while destroying evil.

 

Good stuff! Repped! The fact that he's a (classically stern, dour, tempermental) dwarf with actual humor could be humorous too... in an awkward overcompensating way.

[Labrat]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

I have posted a character below, which you may find inspirational:

 

Not a Paladin of Ziandwyrth, or even a cleric, but a follower (indeed, a follower of my old Turakian Age campaign party's resident 'friendly necromancer', 'Etwas Anderes'), this woman/girl was decidedly odd.

 

Her tutor/master had a morbid fear of badgers (??!!), so she carried a cuddly stuffed badger around and waved it in his face whenever she thought he was being hard on her . She also took great pleasure in seeing him humiliated - not actually seriously hurt (because she wanted to learn stuff off him and actually liked him).

 

She used to wear a mask to cover her face - her COM score relates to her face, not the rest of her body, which would probably equate to COM 14 or thereabouts... (and she wore figure-hugging, translucent dresses, for additional effect).

 

 

Take this Rep, brother, may it serve you well.

 

Now how about the way that the undead respond to a non-necromatic follower of a Red God like Ziandwyrth? I don't know why it's important to me to know, but it is. I picture him maybe having an influence over them making them stand still gaping and moaning at him while he tells them jokes that they don't get or respond to. (Talk about a dead audience... ba-dum BAH!)

 

Maybe I'm having waaaay too much fun with this concept.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

My guess would be that he would treat the undead just like anyone else. He would refuse to admit that they were unusual in anyway, certainly he'd kill them if they attacked him but otherwise he'd strike up a conversation, perhaps offer them food because they look a little thin or sickly and perhaps even try to convince them to stop working for their necromantic masters and strike out on their own or even form a Union.

 

If he has a smite ability then perhaps it always manifests itself in a way that is deniable. Rather than a bright flash of holy light when he hits a Skeleton it would trip over or suddenly bash itself in the face with it's own sword, the extra damage comes from a brief moment of bad luck that the creature suffers.

[Labrat]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

My guess would be that he would treat the undead just like anyone else. He would refuse to admit that they were unusual in anyway, certainly he'd kill them if they attacked him but otherwise he'd strike up a conversation, perhaps offer them food because they look a little thin or sickly and perhaps even try to convince them to stop working for their necromantic masters and strike out on their own or even form a Union.

 

If he has a smite ability then perhaps it always manifests itself in a way that is deniable. Rather than a bright flash of holy light when he hits a Skeleton it would trip over or suddenly bash itself in the face with it's own sword, the extra damage comes from a brief moment of bad luck that the creature suffers.

 

Brilliant! (You must spread Rep around... yada...)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

I'm not really soliciting mechanics' date=' it's more of a philosophical thread. I don't really need help in the 'how to do this' department... but thanks for your comments.[/quote']

 

Very good then, I'll be sure not to offer you any how to advice in the future.

[Markdoc]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

n one light a 'Paladin of the Lord of Chaos' would be the classic 'Anti-Paladin' but in addition to the negative foil for a 'good paladin' there are elements here like luck and humor that might get one out of the mired old 'black armored death machine' archetype. At least as I'm thinking of it.

 

I'd go for a mean-tempered Robin Hood attitude. He could be the champion of the under-dog, and the enemy of heavy-handed overlords. His heart's in more or less the right place, but his methods are seen as "not paladinly"*. That'd be enough to get him labelled "good" by some people and "evil" by the powers that be. Add to that, a profound liking for pranks and you should be good to go.

 

Cheers, Mark

 

* "Sir Fnord! Hurry! The evil baron is escaping!"

"Relax. Did I forget ..." Strangled scream from off-camera... "to mention that I put a rune on his saddle that teleports an upright spear onto it if sat on?"

[mayapuppies]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

This is how I would have translated it

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Loyalty To Ziandwyrth

 

It's definitely a matter of coming up with a skewed perspective on the world. Some things matter to him more than others.

 

A good example of such a character would be Raoul from the Mag Force 7 series. Raoul never met a drug that he didn't like and he hangs around with an empath who find's his spaced out thoughts quite soothing.

 

Both characters are members of Mag Force 7, a mercenary group which is led by a cyborg called Xris.

 

At one point Xris starts developing a relationship with an attractive soldier lady. Raoul is perfectly aware that said lady is a government spy but neglects to tell Xris this information because he believes that it's been too long since his leader got any and that sort of thing is unhealthy. Warning Xris would have just dampened his ardor.

 

Basically such a character is not incapable of caring but he will worry about different things.