Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

[Nerdnumber1]

My GM thinks that if my brick's martial throw works like knockback for purposes of collisions. For example, I put all my damage into throwing distance to send an enemy 35" toward a safe wall 5" away. The GM gave me a 30d6 attack on the enemy. This doesn't seem fair, but anything that can send you half a football field will do some damage it you hit a wall 5feet away. Also, I can't see a normal flying 70 meters without getting a little hurt, even without anything but the ground in the way.

[Nerdnumber1]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

Ok, I found the rules prohibiting the 30d6 damage, but what about the ability to safely send people 35" (without pushing)?

[Trebuchet]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

Ok' date=' I found the rules prohibiting the 30d6 damage, but what about the ability to safely send people 35" (without pushing)?[/quote']What kind of STR are we talking about here? Another human is certainly not a Balanced, Aerodynamic object for throwing so there ought to be some penalty there as well.

 

There would be nothing "safe" about such a throw. 35" is almost 230 feet. People thrown far less distance from auto accidents are often killed. Perhaps halving the BODY damage would allow someone tough to survive such a throw, especially if they have Breakfall.

[Nerdnumber1]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

What kind of STR are we talking about here? Another human is certainly not a Balanced, Aerodynamic object for throwing so there ought to be some penalty there as well.

 

There would be nothing "safe" about such a throw. 35" is almost 230 feet. People thrown far less distance from auto accidents are often killed. Perhaps halving the BODY damage would allow someone tough to survive such a throw, especially if they have Breakfall.

 

Martial Throw, pg400 of revised 5th edition rulebook with 65str and all damage dice converted to distance on a 100kg human target. The manuver assumes a human target, considering its an attack. Since you are sacrificing damage dice for throw distance, it would be strange to gain damage for long throws.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

Martial Throw' date=' pg400 of revised 5th edition rulebook with 65str and all damage dice converted to distance on a 100kg human target. The manuver assumes a human target, considering its an attack. Since you are sacrificing damage dice for throw distance, it would be strange to gain damage for long throws.[/quote']Sure, but keep in mind 10-12d6 damage is potentially lethal for a normal. So if this 35" throw does even half damage of 17d6 that's very dangerous, maybe even deadly.

 

I don't believe there are specific rules in Hero just for being tossed without hitting something like a wall. You're just going to have to wing it with some common sense and the tosser's intent. Did he throw his victim towards a lake or a junkyard? Was he trying to kill/disable the tossee or just get her out of the fight for a while? That could make all the difference.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

With that many dice, surely the wall is only going to slow the person down. IIRC, (it's been a while) the wall would do damage in DC = DEF+BODY, then would break and the person would continue traveling forward minus that velocity.

 

Thus, Person A hits Wall B at 30" velocity. Wall B has 4 DEF and 2 BODY. Person A takes 6d6 damage and continues traveling at 24" (30-6) velocity.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

"Throwing a target further away from you does not add to the damage done by the Throw maneuver."

 

Ultimate Martial Artist p152

[Manic Typist]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

And lo, there was Light, and the Bloodstone glowed in satisfaction....

 

[Kirby]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

For this situation, The Ultimate Brick (p.15-16) is your friend.

 

Your character has a strength of 65. You find out the weight of your thrown object (standard, generic human = 100kg) and what STR that weight corresponds to (100kg = 10 STR) for lifting. You then subtract the two to find the difference (65 - 10 = 55). The range on 55 STR is: 1) Running (half-move, throw) 44"; 2) Standing 22"; and Prone 11".

 

For throwing a character, you do your character's strength (65 = 13d6 of damage); however...

 

"A character can increase the distance he Throws and object by subtracting damage from the Throw. For every -1d6 of damage, he can Throw the target +1"."

- The Ultimate Brick, p. 15

 

As for Object Range, a human is -4 on range modifier (TUB, p. 16), but when throwing for distance, who cares about accuracy?

 

As for the damage, if you threw a human for 22" (Standing) + 13" (STR) for 45", I'd think the damage he'd take would be simply what he hit. A snow-covered ground would be much softer than a steel alloy building. Either way, the superhero way of throwing, the damage would probably negligible in a case like this. But traveling 45" back, that could be a lot of recoveries.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

How do you handle how far they travel, per Phase?

[nexus]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

With things like knockback and throwing you don't they travel the distance "instantly" (or at the bottom of the segment when they were thrown/KB'ed).

[Manic Typist]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

Weird, huh? That I can throw someone 40" and that SHOULD beat another person who might have 50" of flight...

[nexus]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

Weird' date=' huh? That I can throw someone 40" and that SHOULD beat another person who might have 50" of flight...[/quote']

 

I think it's one of the "GM's sense of balance and drama" things. If someone with a higher movement rate or in position too wants to try and catch a flung comrade (or victim) I'd let 'em try.

[Maelstrom]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

Wow, that's a lot of g-stress starting and finishing. Looot of g-stress.

 

If we break the phase down into sections, half would be move, a little less than half would be attack, and then a small slice of time for k/b. I think a throw of 40" would be about half a phase, and flight would be a full phase, so there's your ability to catch up. Knockback would technically be much faster accelleration and decelleration, but not as much raw top speed, or they'd go much farther.

 

Or, whatever's more fun.

[Kirby]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

How do you handle how far they travel' date=' per Phase?[/quote']Per The Ultimate Brick (p. 16) "As a default for the HERO System, a thrown object travels the full distance thrown immediately; there's no 'hang time' or delay in reaching a distant target. The GM may, if he wishes, develop rules for...."

Weird' date=' huh? That I can throw someone 40" and that SHOULD beat another person who might have 50" of flight...[/quote'] No, not really. If you throw someone 40" and someone else has 50" of flight and you throw while he flies simultaneously, he'll beat you to the 40" mark. He'll be 10" further than your thrown item when both land or end the phase.

 

For someone who can lift a large ICBM (200 tons, 65 STR), throwing a 100kg object would be as easy and fast as a major league pitcher throwing a baseball.

 

There is additional information in The Ultimate Brick regarding "realistic throwing," but that info is preceded by a STOP sign.

[Kirby]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

Weird' date=' huh? That I can throw someone 40" and that SHOULD beat another person who might have 50" of flight...[/quote']However, if you're referring to 40" being a half-phase's duration, then think of it as the throw would be 80" normally, 40 is just a "half-move."

[Nerdnumber1]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

I know the rules say that if I convert all my damage to distance, then the target shouldn't take damage, but then I can throw sick babies more than a football field onto a concrete floor without harming a hair on their heads (not to mention that infant skull). It seems like the ultimate way to transport party members and normals in peril for such a low point cost.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

Never underestimate how bouncy babies are. Plus, their skulls are still quite soft at such an age, and have some flex room.

 

 

 

 

What?

[Nerdnumber1]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

I know their skulls are soft are mostly cartilege. Unfortunately this makes the primary function of the skull, protecting one's fragile brain, much more difficult. Also, babies bouncing and cartwheeling through the air seems to upset the media for some reason.

[Kirby]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

I know the rules say that if I convert all my damage to distance' date=' then the target shouldn't take damage, but then I can throw sick babies more than a football field onto a concrete floor without harming a hair on their heads (not to mention that infant skull). It seems like the ultimate way to transport party members and normals in peril for such a low point cost.[/quote']Aside from the whole "superhero genre" aspect not being based in reality, there are a few things you're overlooking:

• A concrete floor will cause (additional) damage
  
• If you're throwing from point A to B and hitting a concrete floor, you've thrown a short distance, not a long one. Either that or you've thrown through walls.
  
• Heroes do not throw babies
  
• A baseball pitcher throws harder throwing his fast ball than he will if he's trying to throw a ball as far as possible (same with a quaterback)
  
• In the strange world of science, firing a bullet vertically in the air causes it to fall with minimal, if any, damage; however, any angle on it can wound or kill.
  
• There's a section on "Realistic Throwing" in The Ultimate Brick, beginning on page 114.

[Maelstrom]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

[*]Heroes do not throw babies

 

GAWD, it was JUST that ONE TIME! Let a guy forget once in a while!

[Manic Typist]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

A hero throws a baby if it saves the baby's life.

[Kirby]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

GAWD' date=' it was JUST that ONE TIME! Let a guy forget once in a while! [/quote']

A hero throws a baby if it saves the baby's life.

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is just not sound advice. Shame on you two.

 

 

 

[Vulcan]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

A hero can throw a baby - to another hero. (Who had better catch said baby...)

[Bloodstone]

Re: Between a Brick and a Hard Place: Martial throw

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzorIBtk5EM

 

 

On a different note... what if the baby is invulnerable? Can you use him as a ranged attack then?