The Lost Origin of Evolution

[Sriseru]

What if the paleontological evidence showed that complex lifeforms, such as large animals, complex plants and humanoids, just began to appear, without any sign of origin. The evidence would also show that the lifeforms had evolved significantly after that point in time. What if the sentient beings on other known worlds shared this origin, aswell as being humanoid themselves.

How would this evidence influence science and religion?

Further, how would they react when encountering a completely alien species whom share their own theories and evidence regarding their own evolution?

 

The cause of this appearance of life are the destruction of the homeworld, colonization, genetic engineering, terraforming and the complete obliteration of civilization on several hundred of worlds.

[Markdoc]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

Well, for a start, various religions would claim this "proved" their deity of choice had created life - but encountering other species, wth different religions would knock most religions for a bit of loop, to start with. Meanwhile, scientists would start comparing structures from different worlds and constructing phylogenetic trees to try and find out which world was first seeded, determine the origin of the gene stock, etc. If you could do that, you could work out which direction the progenitors came from and try and track them back to their planet of origin. Even if that planet was destroyed millions of years ago, you should still be able to determine that by tracking radiation release.

 

cheers, Mark

[Karmakaze]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

What if the paleontological evidence showed that complex lifeforms' date=' such as large animals, complex plants and humanoids, just began to appear, without any sign of origin. The evidence would also show that the lifeforms had evolved significantly after that point in time. What if the sentient beings on other known worlds shared this origin, as well as being humanoid themselves.[/quote']

 

You mean any new evidence uncovered from now on, or in place of the evidence that's already been turned up?

[Nyrath]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

If you could do that' date=' you could work out which direction the progenitors came from and try and track them back to their planet of origin.[/quote']

Yes, but it is not quite as easy as that. The stars of our galaxy orbit the galactic center. This means that the closer they are to the center, the faster they orbit. Which means that stars orbit at different speeds.

 

The upshot of all this is that two stars could be next door neighbors at one point, but a 100 million years later they could be on opposite sides of the galaxy.

 

It is still possible to calculate which star was where at what point in time, but you need some heavy number crunching. It will not be as easy as following a trail of genetic bread crumbs.

[Sriseru]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

You mean any new evidence uncovered from now on' date=' or in place of the evidence that's already been turned up?[/quote']

 

In place of the evidence that's already been turned up.

[Nyrath]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

In place of the evidence that's already been turned up.

In SF like the background story to the Traveller RPG and John W. Campbell's THE MIGHTIEST MACHINE, the author notes that the human species is pretty well integrated into Earth's evolutionary tree (as it is currently understood). Therefore they avoid the problem by having Earth be the origin planet. The Progenitors scoop up some primitive ape men, and carry them in flying saucers to be seeded on other planets. This is why Traveller's Vilanti are genetically identical to Solomani.

 

In SF like Larry Niven's PROTECTOR, the authors figure that an extraterrestrial origin for Earth humans is much more science fictiony, so they ignore the science in favor of a flashier story.

[OddHat]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

Star Trek finally established something like this in TNG, and Farscape used it at least for Humans and Peace Keepers. Been around much longer, of course.

 

Mostly it opens the door to all sorts of cross breeding, explains why most aliens are humans in funny make up, and gives you a fun campaign premise of Ancients who've left super tech and strange anomalies all over the place.

 

Cults worshiping the ancients are a common theme when this idea gets used, as well as the Race for the Artifact adventure.

[Markdoc]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

Yes' date=' but it is not [i']quite[/i] as easy as that. The stars of our galaxy orbit the galactic center. This means that the closer they are to the center, the faster they orbit. Which means that stars orbit at different speeds.

 

The upshot of all this is that two stars could be next door neighbors at one point, but a 100 million years later they could be on opposite sides of the galaxy.

 

It is still possible to calculate which star was where at what point in time, but you need some heavy number crunching. It will not be as easy as following a trail of genetic bread crumbs.

 

No, but I'm assuming that by the time we have usable interstellar travel, we should have upgraded our computing power somewhat

 

cheers, Mark

[Nyrath]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

No' date=' but I'm assuming that by the time we have usable interstellar travel, we should have upgraded our computing power somewhat [/quote']

Ah, I failed to make myself clear.

 

The computation is supposed to help the game master/campaign designer. Otherwise some smart-alec player will ask "if it is so easy to trace the genetic trail back to the Primogenitor's homeworld, how come none of the other star faring races traced it already?"

[Markdoc]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

Ah, I failed to make myself clear.

 

The computation is supposed to help the game master/campaign designer. Otherwise some smart-alec player will ask "if it is so easy to trace the genetic trail back to the Primogenitor's homeworld, how come none of the other star faring races traced it already?"

 

Ah - OK. That makes good sense.

 

I was extrapolating forward from what we do today, which occasionally includes tracing gene movements through populations that are now extinct, so it seemed like a reasonable approach.

 

OTOH, you could solve that angle by simply having the progenitors not seed planets "as they came to them", but move about based on other criteria (wormhole technology, for example) or differential rates of genetic development (If the basic conditions for life worth tinkering with require rare stochastic events - as they probably do - then two planets that developed at roughly the same time might be at wildly different places on the ladder of life, for example).

 

cheers, Mark

[Clonus]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

could do that, you could work out which direction the progenitors came from and try and track them back to their planet of origin. Even if that planet was destroyed millions of years ago, you should still be able to determine that by tracking radiation release.

 

cheers, Mark

 

You could try, but good luck. After all the source of the diaspora was hundreds of different solar systems now widely scattered by the permutations of galactic movement. You could figure out the general area where the homeworld used to be, but the specific homeworld would only be calculable if expansion out from it was symmetrical in an unlikely way.

[Sriseru]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

A further note; since the beings evolved from terrestrial life, if they ever found either of the two Voyager probes, they would be able to at least locate the progenitors' system.

[Basil]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

Every time I run into this general idea, the same question pops up in my mind:

 

Why did the aliens spread around variations on hyooming beans instead of their own species?

 

Or if they did spread (variations on) their ow species, what and where are they?

[OddHat]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

Every time I run into this general idea, the same question pops up in my mind:

 

Why did the aliens spread around variations on hyooming beans instead of their own species?

 

Always a good question. My favorite answers:

 

"We are You; Earth is not your true home, though we laid out the patterns that formed you there."

 

"You guys are tasty. I mean, really tasty. Can't eat just one."

 

"Your genetic structure is remarkably adaptable, making you excellent experimental subjects. You also make good slaves."

 

"So I got drunk and boinked a Primate, and now you guys blame me for your big brains. And yes, on another world it was a lizard, and on another a fish, and so on. Do you have any idea how boring it gets, being a Space God?"

[Nyrath]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

Every time I run into this general idea, the same question pops up in my mind:

 

Why did the aliens spread around variations on hyooming beans instead of their own species?

Well, obviously because their own species had evolved into beings composed of pure energy, much like the ST:TOS Organians or the monolith builders from 2001 A Space Odyssey.

 

Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from nature.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070706091322/http://www.futurehi.net/archives/000106.html

[Midas]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

 

Or if they did spread (variations on) their own species, what and where are they?

 

Rats? They are nearly impossible to eradicate, but are evolved to survive only in human cities.

 

Dogs? Humans make excellent grooms, you just have to let them *think* they're in charge.

 

Cats? Double the line about dogs. (There is a reason why people who have cats refer to themselves as "catslaves.")

 

Midas

[Maur]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

Rats survive without humans in lots of places. Look at the damage and devastation they cause when introduced to islands with ground birds on them (and no humans living there).

[Sriseru]

Re: The Lost Origin of Evolution

 

The progenitors were, by some major event, forced to either the most primitive lifestyle their bodies could manage or extinction. As time went by they eventually forgot about their past, on some worlds their own creations would even hunt them down as food.