Magic Jar

[lifo]

Hi there everyone!

I'm converting D&D spells to my personal magical system configuration and now I'm stuck trying to heroize Magic Jar.

Usually, when this things happen, I look up on Killershriek site to find inspiration, but this time, somehow, his spell version doesn't seem to appeal me.

Any alternative ideas?

 

Magic Jar

Range: 30'

Duration: See below

Effect: Take over one body

This spell causes the caster's body to fall into a

trance, while the caster's life force is placed in an

inanimate object (which is called a magic jar re-

gardless of its form; it does not have to be an ac-

tual jar) within range. From this object, the

caster's life force may attempt to take over any

one creature within 120' of the magic jar. If the

victim makes a successful saving throw vs. spells,

the attempt fails and the caster may not try to

take over that victim again for one turn. If the

victim fails the saving throw, the caster takes

over his body and the life force of the victim is

placed into the magic jar.

The caster may cause the body to perform any

normal actions, but not special abilities (similar

to a polymorph self effect). A dispel evil spell

will force the spellcaster's life force out of the vic-

tim's body and back into the magic jar. When

the spellcaster returns to his or her real body, the

victim's life force returns to his body and the

spell ends.

If the possessed body is destroyed, the victim's

life force dies, and the caster's life force returns

to the magic jar. From there the caster may try to

take over another body or return to the original

body.

If the magic jar is destroyed while the caster's

life force is within it, the caster is killed. If the

magic jar is destroyed while the caster's life force

is in a victim's body, the life force is stranded in

that body, and the life force of the body's origi-

nal owner is destroyed. If the caster's original

body is destroyed, his life force is stranded in the

magic jar until the caster can take over another

body!

The taking over of another body is a Chaotic

act.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Magic Jar

 

Magic Jar is a tough one. I think it is closest to Summoning.

 

You "summon" a nearby victim, Slavishly Loyal (+1), who happens to inhabit the locale (-1), and must be within 120 hexes of the Magic Jar or already possessing the victim (-1), caster's body is in a trance for the length of the spell (-1).

 

Mind Link to any Possessed Body (10 points)

 

Now, as long as your "tasks" hold out (and he's not too many points to be controlled), the caster has successfully taken over the body.

[Beast]

Re: Magic Jar

 

in effect you have killed the character that is possesed now they might live if the evil wizard is forced out of the body

 

Transform Major

duplication

plot device

[Markdoc]

Re: Magic Jar

 

I've used this in the past and built it as a very large mindcontrol with Telepathic and the limitations:

Concentration (0 DCV throughout, unaware of surroundings)

Focus (OIF, fragile, expensive)

Side effect - a big ol' RKA - if the focus is destroyed while "in use"

All or nothing: must achieve +30 effect

plus

Mindlink, usable as attack, lined to Mind control.

 

That way the caster does his mind attack thing, if he succeeds, he gets total control of the body, plus a mindlink so he can see what it sees, maintain the mind control etc. While he is doing so, however, his own body is essentially inert. To use the spell or return to his own body, he needs to use the jar, making him briefly susceptible to the side effect. This is different from the classic spell, in that if you kill his body, he still dies.

 

The other way we have played it is simply two linked transforms: victim into jar, mage into copy of victim, with the side effect that the latter leaves a copy of the mage's body behind. That works, but is (IMO) slightly kludgy.

 

cheers, Mark

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Magic Jar

 

This is a complicated body swap stye power - there are any number of Jericho style constructs that have been discussed on the boards and few about the Wildcard Jumpers (which are a bit more relevant).

 

Essentially I think that Markdoc has it right. When you look at the power it essentially entails taking over someone's mind and being able to make them do stuff. The problems are in the details - awareness of the victim's surroundings - not being able to make the victim use special abilities - the spell makes no mention of the caster's abilities.

 

I would think that I might model it on transform and shapeshift.

 

Tha caster shapeshifts into the jar focus leaving behind an inert body as a limitation. The shapeshift is limited in use (caster form, jar form or victim form and cannot go from caster to victim directly and requires the focus of transformed victim to shift from victim form to jar form) and locks out all other powers except for the transform.

 

The transform is all or nothing and transforms the victim into the jar shape. The caster can then shapeshift into the form of the victim.

 

If the inert body is killed then the shapeshift cannot be switched off and the caster loses access to all his other powers.

 

If the shapeshifted caster is destroyed (jar destroyed) then the caster dies.

 

If the transformed victim is killed (jar destroyed) then the victim dies.

 

My problem is the killing of the victim form. In this build if the victim form of the caster is destroyed it would be the caster who was killed, not the victim...

 

handwavium??

 

 

Doc

[lifo]

Re: Magic Jar

 

Hmmm... you gave me quite an inspiration.

I've come up with this idea:

Transform object in object with caster's life force in it, side effect: transform caster in caster without is own life force

then the transformed object should have the following power:

Transform target in target with object's life force, side effect: transform object in object with target's life force.

What do you think about it?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Magic Jar

 

Magic Jar

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Magic Jar

 

Hmmm... you gave me quite an inspiration.

I've come up with this idea:

Transform object in object with caster's life force in it, side effect: transform caster in caster without is own life force

then the transformed object should have the following power:

Transform target in target with object's life force, side effect: transform object in object with target's life force.

 

What do you think about it?

 

I have no idea.

 

The transform power cannot change the form of the caster, only other things - so I think that your build is illegal in the rules as written.

 

If it works for you then go ahead but I think that those side effects are pretty hefty....

 

 

Doc

[lifo]

Re: Magic Jar

 

The transform power cannot change the form of the caster' date=' only other things - so I think that your build is illegal in the rules as written.[/quote']

Gee... you're right...

What a hero newbie!

 

Hmmm... have to find another way.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Magic Jar

 

Good luck with that. You have stumbled across one of the areas that Hero has had perennial problems with - possession.

 

There are a number of ways that people have proposed to address that - see both mine and Killer Shrike's as serious attempts to get the system to do what we want.

 

With each build there is a problem that can come out when it is used. It is up to the GM whether to accept the builds as valid and then play the builds logically as described or to play them systematically as written and stumble across some of the problems.

 

 

Doc

[lifo]

Re: Magic Jar

 

Ok, let's try again.

First of all, the caster shapeshift in the jar, making disappear the actual jar and leaving as a side effect his empty body (thanks Doc Democracy! )

In this form the caster is limited only to use the following spell: mind control linked with clairsentience (sight, hearing, touch, smell and taste group) limited through the victim's senses.

 

Now, to complete the spell as in its original form I have just to find the right rules to cover all the various things may happen.

So:

-If you kill the victim's body the victim dies. Check!

-If you kill the caster's body, caster will be trapped in jar form. For that should work a limitation on the shapeshift power.

-If you break the jar shapeshifted caster, the caster dies, leaving behind his body. Check!

-If you break the jar when he caster is possessing the victim, the victim soul dies and the caster will be trapped in the victim's body. And here's the problem. How can I fullfill this condition?

[jugroo]

Re: Magic Jar

 

thats really a difficult one

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Magic Jar

 

Part of the problem with a spell like this that just because the source material presents it, it doesnt mean its a good idea or even necessary in HERO.

 

If you want to possess someone else, there are more direct ways to do it in the HERO System. All the arbitrary nonsense around Magic Jar, which is probably written to model some effect from a fable or myth, is completely unnecessary.

 

While it is possible to model just about anything in HERO terms in one way or another given enough points to play with, the old adage "just because you can do something doesn't mean you should" applies.

[lifo]

Re: Magic Jar

 

Part of the problem with a spell like this that just because the source material presents it, it doesnt mean its a good idea or even necessary in HERO.

 

If you want to possess someone else, there are more direct ways to do it in the HERO System. All the arbitrary nonsense around Magic Jar, which is probably written to model some effect from a fable or myth, is completely unnecessary.

 

While it is possible to model just about anything in HERO terms in one way or another given enough points to play with, the old adage "just because you can do something doesn't mean you should" applies.

Do you know what?

You're totally right!

Considering the fact that I'm converting my campaign to Hero to get rid of all the D&D nonsense, it just doesn't make sense to lose time on a spell like that. I've never even used that spell, or have seen it used by the players, in 15 years of campaigning!

So, I'm going to use a slightly modified version of your magic jar (at least is one making the most sense, after some serious thought) and then find other and easier ways to possess people.

 

Thank you all, guys.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Magic Jar

 

Do you know what?

You're totally right!

Considering the fact that I'm converting my campaign to Hero to get rid of all the D&D nonsense, it just doesn't make sense to lose time on a spell like that. I've never even used that spell, or have seen it used by the players, in 15 years of campaigning!

So, I'm going to use a slightly modified version of your magic jar (at least is one making the most sense, after some serious thought) and then find other and easier ways to possess people.

 

Thank you all, guys.

 

No problem. And if you arent already aware of it, here is my very detailed D&D Conversion. Also, thousands of Spells.

 

Anything labeled "Vancian" on my site equals "D&D Style Magic".

[badger3k]

Re: Magic Jar

 

I don't think I can post from the USPD, but there is a bodyjacking power that lets the character possess others. Generally built with Mind Control, Desolid, Clinging, and Telepathy. That might work for the possessing part. The other part .... hmm. Not sure. exdim movement from the world to a world where the caster's body is an inanimate object is always a possibility, albeit a cheesy one.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Magic Jar

 

I don't think I can post from the USPD' date=' but there is a bodyjacking power that lets the character possess others. Generally built with Mind Control, Desolid, Clinging, and Telepathy. That might work for the possessing part. The other part .... hmm. Not sure. exdim movement from the world to a world where the caster's body is an inanimate object is always a possibility, albeit a cheesy one.[/quote']

 

{Cough} Magic Jar

[badger3k]

Re: Magic Jar

 

{Cough} Magic Jar

 

Which is what he wrote:

 

"Hi there everyone!

I'm converting D&D spells to my personal magical system configuration and now I'm stuck trying to heroize Magic Jar.

Usually, when this things happen, I look up on Killershriek site to find inspiration, but this time, somehow, his spell version doesn't seem to appeal me.

Any alternative ideas?"

 

Damn. I wasn't aware that what I wrote is what you have.

 

Ok, so I have no real ideas then...

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Magic Jar

 

Which is what he wrote:

 

"Hi there everyone!

I'm converting D&D spells to my personal magical system configuration and now I'm stuck trying to heroize Magic Jar.

Usually, when this things happen, I look up on Killershriek site to find inspiration, but this time, somehow, his spell version doesn't seem to appeal me.

Any alternative ideas?"

 

Damn. I wasn't aware that what I wrote is what you have.

 

Ok, so I have no real ideas then...

 

Later on:

 

Do you know what?

You're totally right!

 

...

 

So, I'm going to use a slightly modified version of your magic jar (at least is one making the most sense, after some serious thought) and then find other and easier ways to possess people.

 

Thank you all, guys.

 

[badger3k]

Re: Magic Jar

 

Later on:

 

 

 

 

D'oh! Failed my reading comprehension roll. I blame it on my undiagnosed neurological complication and my new puppy.