Sean Waters Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Imagine a power that is AoE and constant, say a fire field, or a mass telepathy effect. If I have a dispel that would be able to stop the power, or any other adjustment power, I don't think I need to target the effect originator, but if I don't, what effect does it have? Say I want to protect my pal while he is in the fire field: can I dispel fire effect on him, or do I have to target a part of the AoE (and if the dispel is not itself AoE, how much is affected?) There is probably a simple answer to this, but I can't spot it. Any help appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Re: Adjusting AoE Good question! My instant take on it would be that if your Dispel is not Area of Effect that you would dispel the effect purely on the person you cast the dispel on. You would affect only one person and (instant decision again) would apply the dispel against the full value of the area effect attack. You would need to dispel the whole attack to get the dispel the effects from that one person. I think to dispel the whole thing you would need area effect dispel... Doc PS: I'm already forming arguments against my gut response... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted June 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Re: Adjusting AoE Good question! My instant take on it would be that if your Dispel is not Area of Effect that you would dispel the effect purely on the person you cast the dispel on. You would affect only one person and (instant decision again) would apply the dispel against the full value of the area effect attack. You would need to dispel the whole attack to get the dispel the effects from that one person. I think to dispel the whole thing you would need area effect dispel... Doc PS: I'm already forming arguments against my gut response... It is difficult: if I dispel the effect on someone in the AoE does that person remain 'dispelled' and so safe in the AoE or does the effect re-stablish itself next phase or are they safe, but only so long as they do not move to another part of the AoE? It is all so confusing..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Re: Adjusting AoE It is difficult: if I dispel the effect on someone in the AoE does that person remain 'dispelled' and so safe in the AoE or does the effect re-stablish itself next phase or are they safe, but only so long as they do not move to another part of the AoE? It is all so confusing..... Well, personally, and gut instinct again, I would have them safe within the AoE - after all - you have effectively dispelled the whole power - for that person. For anyone else - it is still there. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Re: Adjusting AoE If the Power is Constant but being maintained, you target them (the person who used the Power) with your dispel. If it isn't being maintained (i.e. is Uncontrolled, Continuing Charges, etc) you target the power itself (DCV 3). The rules don't address AoE Powers specifically, but I see nothing in the rules that would make me assume that they are handled any differently than non-AoE powers. Dispel turns the Power off. There is no notation stating that you have to buy AoE on a Dispel to be able to use it against AoE powers, so it should turn off the power just like normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted June 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Adjusting AoE Useful approach certainly has the advantage of being very straightforward in practice, but I remain (slightly) unconvinced, or at least undecided: If Firestorm (a mutant who causes the air to combust in a huge area around him) is maintaining his AoE and Suppressor, a character with the ability to suppress mutant powers in a small area around him, I would have thought that Suppressor gets the advantage of his suppression field even if he is not close enough to encompass Firestorm in his own AoE. Of course, suppress is itself a power that needs maintenance... I appreciate that I can apply dramatic and common sense (if I can find where I left them) but I'm keen to have a decent frame to hang them upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Adjusting AoE Useful approach certainly has the advantage of being very straightforward in practice, but I remain (slightly) unconvinced, or at least undecided: If Firestorm (a mutant who causes the air to combust in a huge area around him) is maintaining his AoE and Suppressor, a character with the ability to suppress mutant powers in a small area around him, I would have thought that Suppressor gets the advantage of his suppression field even if he is not close enough to encompass Firestorm in his own AoE. Of course, suppress is itself a power that needs maintenance... I appreciate that I can apply dramatic and common sense (if I can find where I left them) but I'm keen to have a decent frame to hang them upon. I agree it is a useful approach, as it is the one directly from the rules. And as to your hypothetical, the rules on Adjustment powers state that you can target either the effects of a Power, or the Originator of the power. The specific example in the book is casting a Suppress on either the Summoned demon or on the wizard that Summoned it. So if the effects of the AoE fire power are within Suppressor's range, even if Firestorm isn't, he can still Suppress the Power. And it Suppresses the whole power, not just a part of it. So I'd say that is the decent framework to hang your missing dramatic and common sense on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schir1964 Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Re: Adjusting AoE ...If Firestorm (a mutant who causes the air to combust in a huge area around him) is maintaining his AoE and Suppressor, a character with the ability to suppress mutant powers in a small area around him, I would have thought that Suppressor gets the advantage of his suppression field even if he is not close enough to encompass Firestorm in his own AoE. Of course, suppress is itself a power that needs maintenance... I appreciate that I can apply dramatic and common sense (if I can find where I left them) but I'm keen to have a decent frame to hang them upon. Okay, it appears you are looking for some extra granularity. Possible Solution: If the Dispel is not area effect and is being used on an Area Effect (more than one hex) attack (and not being maintained by a character), then the Dispel removes the effect from a single Hex for each application of Dispel. If the attack is being maintained by a character, then of course the character must be targeted. If you shut down the source then there is no Area Effect to deal with. I've suggested the same sort of treatment for Attacks vs Very Large Targets. Just An Idea - Christopher Mullins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted June 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Re: Adjusting AoE Okay, it appears you are looking for some extra granularity. Possible Solution: If the Dispel is not area effect and is being used on an Area Effect (more than one hex) attack (and not being maintained by a character), then the Dispel removes the effect from a single Hex for each application of Dispel. If the attack is being maintained by a character, then of course the character must be targeted. If you shut down the source then there is no Area Effect to deal with. I've suggested the same sort of treatment for Attacks vs Very Large Targets. Just An Idea - Christopher Mullins I like the idea of opposing energy fields eating into each other Now you've got me thinking about very large targets. Damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Re: Adjusting AoE Since Dispel works based on the Active Points of the power being Dispelled, the AOE doesn't matter. AoE is already factored into the Active Points of the power. If you roll enough effect to Dispel the power, then you dispel the power. Period. That's how Dispel works: it's all-or-nothing. If you want to stop part of the power, use Suppress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Re: Adjusting AoE Since Dispel works based on the Active Points of the power being Dispelled' date=' the AOE doesn't matter. AoE is already factored into the Active Points of the power. If you roll enough effect to Dispel the power, then you dispel the power. Period. That's how Dispel works: it's all-or-nothing. If you want to stop part of the power, use Suppress.[/quote'] OK. So, suppose you want to provide one person within that area of effect with protection from the effects without affecting evryone else. Suppress would not be the power of choice? You would use defences? Something else? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Re: Adjusting AoE OK. So, suppose you want to provide one person within that area of effect with protection from the effects without affecting evryone else. Suppress would not be the power of choice? You would use defences? Something else? Doc Defenses for the win. Suppress targets a Power (either at its source or where it has its effect), not a person. And doesn't provide protection from the Power, it just reduces the Active Points in the Power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Re: Adjusting AoE OK. So' date=' suppose you want to provide one person within that area of effect with protection from the effects without affecting evryone else. Suppress would not be the power of choice? You would use defences? Something else?[/quote'] Depends on what you want to do. The best way to provide Defense for someone, is with a Defense Power. Say a Force Wall around the guy. Using common sense, you could allow a Suppress to supress part of a power based on its area, rather than its DCs. So if the power is 60 Active Points, and the affected area is 20 hexes, you could let the suppress remove the effect from one hex per 3 pips of effect rolled. If you suppress 60 points, you turn off the power completely. If you suppress 30 points, you "protect" half the area, while the other half continues to be affected by the full 60-point power. Tweak to taste. If I was the GM, I'd probably say that the area has to be reduced in a geometrically simple way, for example, if it's a Radius effect, the outer-most hexes get suppressed first, and the center hex is suppressed last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted June 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Re: Adjusting AoE ...of course suppression allows a 'field' effect, IIRC , which does not suppress the whole power , just any part of it in the field. If you wanted a single person protection you could buy a suppress one hex AoE field UBO. Then a target would be in aprotective suppress bubble, and could enter a large AoE atatck without suppressing the whole thing. Also (having looked it up - p227), the wording sugegsts that normally suppress has to target a character/power source and does not work on the effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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