The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

[assault]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

I prefer origins to be WYSIWYG. If I say my character gained his powers from a combination of chemicals and a lightning bolt, I don't want to be told that he was actually given them by an Initiate Tenth Class of the Heavenly Help-Mates.

 

Actually, I might make an exception in that particular case.

[Markdoc]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

There is an old (by Internet standards) joke about every time you bring up physics in a discussion of fantasy or comic books' date=' God kills a catgirl.[/quote']

 

No wonder they're so damn hard to find, then!

 

cheers, Mark

[Balabanto]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

It does bother me, yes. I think, especially in a multi-faceted universe such as a supers game would engender, "simplifying" all powers to the genre/source of reality bending (or similar) is lame. Part of the fun is the different and wild ways people GET super powers.

 

On the same vein, I HATE HATE HATE it when authors or GM's too heavily define a power that by it's very nature is mystical and unknowable. Magic is the big one for me. I read Mercedes Lackey for a long time but stopped cold when she started getting technical about her magic and how it was defined and used. That drove me nuts cuz it didn't FEEL like magic anymore and that's NOT magic...that's science and I'm not reading fantasy to learn about thermodynamics.

 

Same thing with super powers. You take the uniqueness of the power away and it doesn't FEEL like a supers game anymore to me. I don't know what it feels like...actually. It's just uncomfortable.

 

Actually, in my game world, a lot of powers have to be very strongly defined because there are over 60 active player characters. Of these, MAGIC is the one that needs the most regulation and definition.

 

Why? Because too many people have a tendency to say "Well, it's magic. It doesn't need any explanation, ergo...

 

I can do ANYTHING with it."

 

The answer to this is..."no."

 

1) The only choices you have as a GM are to make magic conceptions rare, which players hate, or to regulate magic to work as follows:

 

When "Magic" creates an effect, it is the same as it's nontechnological counterpart. Magic lightning doesn't count as magic and lightning, it counts as lightning. That's it. Only raw magical energy counts as "magic' for that specific magic vulnerability.

 

2) If you don't do this, everyone who DOESN'T use magic feels gimped, because magic has the ability to do things that nothing else in the game can do, and can easily be used as a substitute for every technological effect, only all on the same character.

 

So before you judge harshly, when playing a game, you have to have a lot more justification than you do when you're reading comics.

 

Classic Example of this: I had to replace a player in my Paul Revere High game. He submitted me a character who had Leukemia, and transformed into a giant heap of rocks that was immune to hard radiation.

 

Me: Uh...you can't do this.

 

Player: Why not?

 

Me: Because if you are suddenly transformed into this, and immune to hard radiation, here's what happens: "By the power of X, I transform into Y..." POOF. Thud, you're dead, because the chemo is no longer affecting you.

 

Player: DOH!!!!!!

 

The character was a mutant.

 

Let's replay that same conversation again with the concept being magic:

 

Player: But it's magic! The magic sustains him! It's...it's magic!

 

Me: (Sigh)

 

That's why you have to have more justification in a game than you do in the comics. Because you have to be fair to everyone, and you're not just writing a story to collect a check. And "Magic" is an easy out for anything you want to throw onto a character, and force the GM to suck it up, no matter how unfair it is to everyone else.

[Narratio]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

Must agree with Balabanto. The explanation 'It's Magic' opens up a whole area of SFX, color, and possible points free goodies that are probably not accessable to other players with characters of the same point cost. Magic users have got to be handled with more care than the battle armour techies or mutants.

 

The Goodman saying of 'Know your Limitations' has special meaning here.

[jtelson]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

Actually' date=' in my game world, a lot of powers have to be very strongly defined because there are over 60 active player characters.[/quote']

 

You have 60 Active Player Characters! how many players?

[Balabanto]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

Around 12. No group has more than 5 players and a GMPC We rotate through groups. Most groups get 16 sessions a year. It keeps things fresh, and it's about the total number of comic book stories any superteam gets in any given year. (4-6)

 

A typical arc looks like this: This is what the San Diego Knights Arc looked like for 2007-2008

 

(1) Bones of Math: The heroes discover a series of clues that lead to Egypt, where the Oligarch (The world's big magic villain), and several other mystic nasties are looking for the resting place of an ancient Babylonian Wizard. The heroes travel to Iraq, and discover the resting place, only the Wizard isn't a Wizard at all, it's an an alien spaceship from another world, and it's currently staffed by a single robot, 1515. The Oligarch freaks out and tries to destroy everything. The PC's rescue 1515, who is looking for his master, the alien captain of the Gamesh. (Yeah, you guys know where this is going, I'm sure) A lot of bad rolls ocurred during the scenario, which led to a lot of problems. (People fighting with 1 body, repeatedly, etc) The PC's study 1515, who goes off to seek his master.

 

(2) Return of the Monster Maker: The Monster Maker returns with heavy duty Wombat Men to threaten our heroes, and kidnaps the girlfriend of one of the PC's, a shapeshifter who was forced during the scenario to suck transformative venom out of his IC girlfriend's butt. The name "ass sucker" sticks for a while.

 

(3) 12 Days of Christmas: Calendar Girl and the Chains of Doom pop in for a visit. The heroes agree to nonlethal competition. Naughty Cheesecake, tauting, and food fights ensue.

 

(4) Time in a Bottle: Archyve is trapped in the Timestream, and he wants out. Unfortunately for the PC's, the events don't happen in order from their perspective, and the evil New Reich Nazis he gets to manipulate the plot get discovered by the PC's. At the end of the plot, time is hit with a hammer, and all official Hero System material has to be junked or seriously revised due to MMO licensing. A good plot nonetheless.

 

I can't show you guys the completed arc for Paul Revere High Year 2 yet. My players are on the list. I would have used that one, because it's creepier.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

...

 

(3) 12 Days of Christmas: Calendar Girl and the Chains of Doom pop in for a visit. The heroes agree to nonlethal competition. Naughty Cheesecake, tauting, and food fights ensue.

...

 

[NestorDRod]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

 

:lol:

[yamamura]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

 

I agree. I keep coming here hoping for cat girls and get none:(

[Karmakaze]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

I agree. I keep coming here hoping for cat girls and get none:(

 

Well, no catgirls, but try Cats 'n Racks

[yamamura]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

Now that is something you don't see everyday!

[wcw43921]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

I agree. I keep coming here hoping for cat girls and get none:(

 

Ya wants catgirls, we gots catgirls!

 

This one's courtesy of Atomic Rockets, and is quite germane to the thread.

 

And here's a couple of live action catgirls.

 

This one may not be safe for work--but I like it.

 

Same for this one.

 

Or you could just Google Catgirls and find your own pics--like I did.

[Balabanto]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

The Chains of Doom are in Digital Hero #40, you may purchase it on this very website. The rest of them are all in the magazine, too, along with a special Calendar Girl cover, all art is by a gentleman named James Dawsey.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

The most egregious example of this that I can think of was the fantasy game we were in that turned out to be Lord of the Rings meets the Matrix. We all thought we were fantasy characters' date=' but we were really just computer avatars... urgh.[/quote']

 

Agreed. Repped.

 

Depends. Most of the time I don't get much deeper than "the lightning bolt and chemicals somehow combined to give him superspeed". I usually don't get into explanations of how he subconsciously alters his position in the universe by means of coordinated psionic vibration of his body's electrons....

 

Second verse,same as the first. Repped.

 

Personally I was disappointed by that and not just because it didn't really make sense. For once with Ben 10 we had a cartoon universe where not everything was about the protagonist and his power source. Some people think a universe where everything is aliens' date=' or magic or mutants and everything is about the the central conflict of the series makes more sense but I don't. That kind of tidiness bothers me because tidiness isn't all that entertaining and reality isn't all that tidy anyway.[/quote']

 

TRVTH! ...and I'm outta rep. Sorry!

 

Actually, in my game world, a lot of powers have to be very strongly defined because there are over 60 active player characters. Of these, MAGIC is the one that needs the most regulation and definition.

 

Why? Because too many people have a tendency to say "Well, it's magic. It doesn't need any explanation, ergo...

 

I can do ANYTHING with it."

 

The answer to this is..."no."....

 

That's why you have to have more justification in a game than you do in the comics. Because you have to be fair to everyone, and you're not just writing a story to collect a check. And "Magic" is an easy out for anything you want to throw onto a character, and force the GM to suck it up, no matter how unfair it is to everyone else.

 

Again, I'd rep ya, but It'll have to wait.

 

 

I agree. And in response to the request for Catgirl pics, here are a few (you folks just aren't looking hard enough!)

 

This link IS safe for work, but it links to others that are not. You have been warned! http://www.jaynaylor.com/betterdays/archives/2008/05/chapter-22-roll-4.html

 

Blue Crash Kit has at least one catgirl.

 

Fur Will Fly has at least two.

 

And here's two of my own (the second one is my second attempt at the same character).

 

[nexus]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

Well' date=' no catgirls, but try Cats 'n Racks

 

Dang, there really is a site for everything....

[nexus]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

 

Here's one SFW but a little risque

 

 

 

 

 

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

Well' date=' no catgirls, but try Cats 'n Racks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wanna be a cat.

[transmetahuman]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

Philosophically, I can totally get behind the science characters who "don't believe in magic" in the sense of "magic transcends physical laws". If mystics can reliably act on the physical world in ways that contradict our current guesses at the laws of nature, that just means those guesses need refinement. That doesn't have to take the magicalness out of magic, or reduce it to "gesture X + syllable Y = effect A"; any magical system that can be described consistently (whether its ultimate causes are known or not) can be examined with the scientific method. If it's not consistent, its inconsistencies can still be examined - and it'll be harder to game with. I've got a similar kinship with what you guys are saying Mr. Terrific feels about gods, but any expansion of that should probably go into NGD. Basically, I hate the false dichotomy of magic versus science. Science goes perfectly well with magic.

 

I hate that schtick of supposed scientific geniuses inventing "technology" that is just a manifestation of their powers. The kinds of groundbreaking paradigm shifts that would lead to super-tech would affect lots of other aspects of current theory, and any real scientist would be 1) trying to reconcile it with everything his theory affects, and 2) be using peer review that would very quickly let him know that his supposed discovery is a very personal and localized aberration. Basically, you're saying your "genius" is an idiot, and not a part of any scientific community. Okay for an occasional deluded mad scientist, but not for someone I'm supposed to take seriously as brilliant.

 

Edit: Also, calling it "psionics" (or, ugh, "reality warping") doesn't make it scientific. Psi is just magic marketed for the sf genre instead of the fantasy genre (though it usually comes pre-loaded with soft assumptions and limitations, the Wild Cards books show it doesn't have to). Another pet peeve.

 

Limited power sources are really, really helpful in keeping a setting internally consistent, so I like that. No reason there can't be more than one source of powers, though, and I like to encourage players to come up with elements that I wouldn't have added to the world, so long as I can veto stuff that doesn't fit. "Sure, okay, you come from Atlantis, and Atlantis was actually settled by vegetable alien colonists millenia ago. I had no plans for Atlantis, and I planned to have ETs, and your veggie guys don't seem like they'll be a problem to fit in. Give me a day to think about whether any of this will conflict with anything else." I've been thinking about trying a "any background element that you've written down, or that you spun in-game, and I didn't veto from the start, is sacrosanct. Anything else I can add to at will, but you get a veto ("you never mentioned family, so this session your hippie mom is coming to town to visit. you cool with that?").

 

There will always be stuff that's pre-determined ("NO TIME TRAVEL!"), but I don't like to spell out exactly how everything works before chargen. Finding out more about this stuff is part of the adventure.

[BNakagawa]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

And here's a couple of live action catgirls.

 

Psst - Lum isn't a catgirl.

[nexus]

Re: The Silence of the Catgirls or too much realism in fantasy

 

She's the cutest Oni girl alien to ever don a tiger stripped bikini.