Urban Fantasy: Warnings

[jtelson]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

I guess my take on urban fantasy is ALOT different then everyone else. I might make a thread just to detail it.

 

Probably not quite everyone else. This seems a lot more like a list about horror than urban fantasy (My wife assures me that authors like Laurell K Hamilton belong to the delightful subgenre erotic horror, which is apparently huge; And the WoD describes itself as a horror, stylish horror IIRC) When I hear Urban Fantasy I think, Gaiman and DeLindt.

[Karmakaze]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Urban Fantasy is kind of a nebulous category. I was at a panel about it at WisCon last weekend and we had a lively discussion about where the line could be drawn. One panelist had been told that Urban Fantasy was only the Hamilton-esque vampire erotica, and had been surprised. Given that one panelist was Ellen Kushner for her Swordspoint books, they were taking the wider view.

 

Arguably, it can include any fantasy which is set in a city, which lets in things like Liavek, Sanctuary or Ankh-Morpork. Or you can limit to modern day or near modern day (which is normally where I define it), which gives you deLint or Gaiman, or things like the Borderlands. Or you can limit to vampire romances, in which case you're looking at Laurel Hamilton, (or less egregiously, Tanya Huff or the Southern Vampire mysteries).

 

(Yes, I do realize I'm dating myself with some of my examples.)

[Markdoc]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Arguably' date=' it can include any fantasy which is set in a city, which lets in things like Liavek, Sanctuary or Ankh-Morpork. Or you can limit to modern day or near modern day (which is normally where I define it), which gives you deLint or Gaiman, or things like the Borderlands. Or you can limit to vampire romances, in which case you're looking at Laurel Hamilton, (or less egregiously, Tanya Huff or the Southern Vampire mysteries).

 

I'd actually class Urban fantasy as any that fits "contemporary/near contemporary setting, with supernatural elements". The mere fact that you can identify a specific subgenre so neatly like "vampire erotic fantasy" by definition means it *isn't* the definition of urban fantasy, per se. So I'd file Sanctuary and Anhk-Morepork into standard fantasy under "High Fantasy" (it started at "Gritty Fantasy", but didn't stay there long) and "Heroic fantasy, comedic" respectively. Horror I see as a subgenre of Urban Fantasy - though perhaps one so distinct as to deserve its own genre.

 

cheers, Mark

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

At one time "fantasy" referred to what we now call horror, "romance" referred to what we now call fantasy, and science fiction was referred to as "scientific romance".

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Stay out of basements' date=' unless you [b']want[/b] to find an entrance to the hidden realm of the dark fae. Or possibly Hell.

 

If we're talking about Scottish Fae and the teind, then the Faerie Realm may well be Hell, or at least in the same neighborhood.

 

BTW, am I the only person who gets tired of all the uber-Aryan morally perfect omnisexual elves with the kewl magik powerz who seem to swarm in every Urban Fantasy setting? I'd like to see some good (or at least non-monstrously evil) Unseelie for once. How about a somewhat surly Redcap who just wants to hide in an abandoned house, and doesn't spend all his time slaughtering and eating people?

 

Heck, how about non pseudo-Celtic Fae? Try and do some research on Cherokee spirits like the Nanehi (for good) and the Water People, the Moon-Eyed People (evil blue-eyed blondes! Try something different!), and Spearfinger the Witch (for evil).

 

Sorry to rant but man oh man am I freaking tired of Misty Lackey's Aryans.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

If we're talking about Scottish Fae and the teind' date=' then the Faerie Realm may well [i']be[/i] Hell, or at least in the same neighborhood.

 

BTW, am I the only person who gets tired of all the uber-Aryan morally perfect omnisexual elves with the kewl magik powerz who seem to swarm in every Urban Fantasy setting? I'd like to see some good (or at least non-monstrously evil) Unseelie for once. How about a somewhat surly Redcap who just wants to hide in an abandoned house, and doesn't spend all his time slaughtering and eating people?

 

Heck, how about non pseudo-Celtic Fae? Try and do some research on Cherokee spirits like the Nanehi (for good) and the Water People, the Moon-Eyed People (evil blue-eyed blondes! Try something different!), and Spearfinger the Witch (for evil).

 

Sorry to rant but man oh man am I freaking tired of Misty Lackey's Aryans.

 

I'd have to agree that non-Celtic spirits/Fae would be an interesting idea. It's something I have considered myself. The cosmologies of various Native American groups would certainly provide interesting characters.

 

In fact I would probably make Celtic Sidhe and the Fae of the two courts just one faction amongst many such as the Nordic trolls and elves, Greek satyrs, centaurs and nymphs, Mexica spirits, Japanese Yokai and so on.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Heck' date=' how about non pseudo-Celtic Fae? Try and do some research on Cherokee spirits like the Nanehi (for good) and the Water People, the Moon-Eyed People (evil blue-eyed blondes! Try something different!), and Spearfinger the Witch (for evil). [/quote']

 

Try Ursula K. Leguin's Buffalo Gals Won't You Come Out Tonight? sometime. It's a neat take on Native American myths and spirits in the modern realm. Pretty sure it's still in print.

[Karmakaze]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Heck' date=' how about non pseudo-Celtic Fae? Try and do some research on Cherokee spirits like the Nanehi (for good) and the Water People, the Moon-Eyed People (evil blue-eyed blondes! Try something different!), and Spearfinger the Witch (for evil).[/quote']

 

Charles deLint has both pseudo-Celtic fae and pseudo-First Nations fae (it's set in Canada). In fact, some of the story conflict comes from the European fae having done to the local fae much the same sort of things as European people did to the First Nations people.

[archermoo]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Charles deLint has both pseudo-Celtic fae and pseudo-First Nations fae (it's set in Canada). In fact' date=' some of the story conflict comes from the European fae having done to the local fae much the same sort of things as European people did to the First Nations people.[/quote']

 

Yeah, deLint's stuff is what I think of when I think of "Urban Fantasy". Just re-read Widdershins the other day. Certainly one of my faves, as Jilly is probably my best loved fictional character of all time.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

One more.

 

You are what tries to eat you.

 

Many monster-hunters are themselves 'monsters' of one sort or another. But even if you start out human you may well end up having an 'alternate lifestyle' thrust upon you. And it doesn't always end there, I'm pretty sure there's a vampiric paranormal detective were-leopard in one UF series.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Yeah' date=' deLint's stuff is what I think of when I think of "Urban Fantasy". Just re-read Widdershins the other day. Certainly one of my faves, as Jilly is probably my best loved fictional character of all time. [/quote']

 

Jilly definitely ranks as one of my favorite heroines of all time.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

(Yes' date=' I do realize I'm dating myself with some of my examples.)[/quote']

 

You think you're dating yourself? My first exposure to the genre was back in 1969, with IMHO one of its seminal works, Margaret St. Clair's novel The Shadow People. It's been almost thirty years since I last read it, so the details are rather fuzzy in my memory; but I took the following review from the add for the novel on Amazon.com, which matches my memories pretty well:

 

 

Margaret St. Clair is a science-fiction/fantasy writer whose fine body of work is sadly neglected today, and is urgently in need of rediscovery. And this short, subtle, shadow-haunted novel is one of her finest works.

 

A quarter of a century before Goth culture came into vogue, this compelling urban fantasy took readers on a frightening journey into a very dark & malicious Faerie indeed, one that could be reached merely by going behind the walls of just the right (or wrong) basement, where lank-haired, emaciated elves feed on hallucinogenic fungus & prey upon one another as viciously as they prey upon any hapless humans who fall into their hands. Written & published during the first resurgence of fantasy in the late 1960s, before the genre became glutted with identical mass-market "sagas" & "epics" with no genuine magic to them, this tale has lingered with me like a fading but unforgettable nightmare for decades now.

 

Fans of Neil Gaiman & Charles DeLint (among others) should do themselves a favor & track down a copy of this disturbing gem, which deserves reprinting today. You won't be disappointed, I assure you. Highly recommended!

[Susano]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

I'd have to agree that non-Celtic spirits/Fae would be an interesting idea. It's something I have considered myself. The cosmologies of various Native American groups would certainly provide interesting characters.

 

In fact I would probably make Celtic Sidhe and the Fae of the two courts just one faction amongst many such as the Nordic trolls and elves, Greek satyrs, centaurs and nymphs, Mexica spirits, Japanese Yokai and so on.

 

Sounds like Hellboy. Which is pure Urban Fantasy in my opinion.

[tkdguy]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Here's an idea I've been toying with: Just make the Fae a bunch of losers. Their downfall came when humanity realized just how pathetic they really were.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Here's an idea I've been toying with: Just make the Fae a bunch of losers. Their downfall came when humanity realized just how pathetic they really were.

 

Myself, I like powerful (within limits) Fae, but I prefer them as being amoral at best and more often outright malicious towards humans. I dunno why, but for some reason I like games where you can mow down the Fae.

 

Though your idea can work too, esp. if the Fae refuse to admit to their loser-ness and still act like the entire universe revolves around them.

[Susano]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Myself, I like powerful (within limits) Fae, but I prefer them as being amoral at best and more often outright malicious towards humans. I dunno why, but for some reason I like games where you can mow down the Fae.

 

Though your idea can work too, esp. if the Fae refuse to admit to their loser-ness and still act like the entire universe revolves around them.

 

So the Fae are basically Paris Hilton and/or Britney Spears?

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

So the Fae are basically Paris Hilton and/or Britney Spears?

 

Works for me!

 

Hmm, when you consider the sluttish nature of the faerie in traditional folklore, as well as their 'human, but not quite appearance', and their disdain for human morality... Say, wait now, you don't think that Paris and Britney are really...

[Susano]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Works for me!

 

Hmm, when you consider the sluttish nature of the faerie in traditional folklore, as well as their 'human, but not quite appearance', and their disdain for human morality... Say, wait now, you don't think that Paris and Britney are really...

 

Faeries?

 

[Clonus]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

• 
  
• New Orleans is the absolute center of the setting. Everything happens there; voodoo, vampires, werewolves, ghosts, demons, etc. Mardi Gras is the cover for arcane rites that draw upon the combined spiritual energy of the party goers to fuel whatever nefarious plans the bad guys have.
  

 

You're kidding, right? Sure you might think New Orleans, but thanks to Tanya Huff, Charles Delint and Hollywood North, the real urban fantasy central is Toronto. The rest of them are scattered around places like Minneapolis, Chicago, L.A. and London.

 

(There there's Tokyo, but that's a whole other deal).

[Susano]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

You're kidding, right? Sure you might think New Orleans, but thanks to Tanya Huff, Charles Delint and Hollywood North, the real urban fantasy central is Toronto. The rest of them are scattered around places like Minneapolis, Chicago, L.A. and London.

 

(There there's Tokyo, but that's a whole other deal).

 

Tokyo is the center of all things magical in many manga and anime. But in the movies, Tokyo kaiju central!

[Vanguard]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Warnings;

 

[*]. . . Mardi Gras is the cover for arcane rites that draw upon the combined spiritual energy of the party goers to fuel whatever nefarious plans the bad guys have.

 

 

Looks like someone else has read the Dark Hunter novels.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Unless there is actually a special unit devoted to supernatural crimes the police will almost certainly know less about magical events than the local criminal groups.

 

In some cases supernatural beings will be running the local criminal groups.

 

 

As an aside, there is no shortage of paranormal detectives and bounty hunters. But the mundane detective genre has already moved beyond detectives, at least on tv. Solving crimes longside policemen and PIs I count one psychiatrist, one judge, one mortician or something like that, a bone expert, a blood spatter expert, two gardeners and a magician's assistant. Not to mention the classic 'helpful old lady'. I've probably missed a few as well. I think Urban fantasy should catch up. Where is the Vampire blood expert? Where is the wizardly judge? Or the Fey stage magician?

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

But in the movies' date=' Tokyo is [i']kaiju[/i] central!

 

Yeah, after a while you really have to wonder why anyone in their right mind would want to live in a city that gets flattened every five years or so by rampaging giant monsters.

[Curufea]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Yeah' date=' after a while you really have to wonder why [i']anyone[/i] in their right mind would want to live in a city that gets flattened every five years or so by rampaging giant monsters.

 

For the same reason anyone would want to live on the San Andreas Fault.

Or next door to a volcano.

 

 

Wishful thinking.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Urban Fantasy: Warnings

 

Looks like someone else has read the Dark Hunter novels.

Nope. Just seems that whatever I read that was Urban Fantasy, books or role-playing, during the 90's seemed to be centered around New Orleans.