Guns in Fantasy

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

How did these Lorenzoni thingies work? It's a flintlock' date=' so despite there being a couple of cartridges in the picture with it, it can't use them...it has to have powder exposed to the sparking of the hammer as it falls. How was it set up to put powder and ball in place after firing a shot?[/quote']

 

 

See that long crank handle? The butt contains reservoirs for both shot and powder. Turning the crank in the correct direction witrh the barrel pointing down rotates the breechblock and allows first powder, then a ball, to be gravity-fed into the chamber. When the crank is in the firing position, the chamber is once ahain lined up with the barrel. All that remains is to charge the flashpan, close the frizzen, cock and fire. And, of course, hope like hell that hot gases don't leak into the butt and cause the pistol to explode.

 

I tried like heck to find an illustration of the mechanism but my google-fu seems weak today.

[Roter Baron]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

One thing that is usually not considered in Fantasy campaigns featuring black-powder weapons is the devating effect of fire-based spells on musketeers.

One little ball of fire and you can see the enemy's ranks go up in colourful explosions of their own!

Also works on pesky pc-shootists ...

[Ternaugh]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

One thing that is usually not considered in Fantasy campaigns featuring black-powder weapons is the devating effect of fire-based spells on musketeers.

One little ball of fire and you can see the enemy's ranks go up in colourful explosions of their own!

Also works on pesky pc-shootists ...

 

The wizard-musketeer in my last game had a number of spells that were used in creative ways. He had one that allowed him to "keep his powder dry", effectively allowing him to ignore penalties in light rain, and reduce them in a heavy downpour. He could also create a penetrating mist that increased misfire in the weapons carried by his opponents.

 

Additionally, barrels of gunpowder amongst the ranks of the bad guys were frequent targets of lightning or fire-based spells throughout the campaign. This was perhaps another reason that nobody played a musketeer until quite recently. I'm guessing that they did the calculations, and figured that at some time, they would be on the receiving end. (Though to be fair, the casks that the PCs were blowing up were substantially bigger, given that they were for the cannons).

 

JoeG

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

One thing that is usually not considered in Fantasy campaigns featuring black-powder weapons is the devating effect of fire-based spells on musketeers.

One little ball of fire and you can see the enemy's ranks go up in colourful explosions of their own!

Also works on pesky pc-shootists ...

 

My game uses a variation of the magic system from L.E Modesitt Jr.'s Recluse series, so in general gunpowder weapons are VERY dangerous to the users if there is a mage about. In order to have something resembling peace of mind the weapons have to be infused with Order magic at creation (rendering them effectively "antimagic" and resistant to interference), in a location that is by it's very nature inherently damping on fire/chaos magic (such as over deep water), or being actively protected by another mage (which means you're banking on your mage being stronger than the opponents mage). This lets me have my shipboard cannons, but keeps land based warfare somewhat gunpowder light, because of the rarity and/or expence of protected weapons

[DusterBoy]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

Terry Pratchett's "Men At Arms" offers an interesting variation on "mediaeval" firearms. The "gonne" in question has a rifled barrel ("I had to make quite a complicated tool for that," said Leonard [da Quirm]) and operates on the flintlock principle although it fires self-contained metallic cartridges held in clips of six. The clip is fitted into the breach and moves sideways as the rounds are fired.

 

However, this IS the Discworld, and technology there is . . . idiosyncratic, to say the least. The "gonne" is a bodge of tech levels and was devised by the local equivalent of Leonardo da Vinci who is subject to "inspirations".

 

It is also sapient and has two distinctive character traits. It actively tries to prevent its own destruction and takes control of anyone who comes into contact with it. For Capt Vimes, for example, it tries to get him to shoot the Assassins, since Vimes despises Assassins and thinks the Disc would be a cleaner place without them.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

I'll repost this pic, originally from the "Cool Guns for your games" thread

 

 

A volley gun, on a field carriage

 

the same basic style with a single point pintle mount would occasionally replace a swivel gun in boarding actions on ship

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

I've seen pictures of examples of some of the other tricksty handguns, but they're hard to come by. My google-fu isn't quite up to par this AM, but here are a few over glitzy non firing reproductions I imagine most folk have stumbled across at novelty stores or Ren Faire vendors

 

A 3 barreled revolving flintlock, a double barreled model, and a pistol dagger

[Markdoc]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

I can't do anything right now, because I fly back to the US tomorrow morning, but if you remind me of this thread in a couple of months. I'd be happy to go the national museum here in Copenhagen and take some photos in the "odd weapons" room. They have gun/bucklers, gun/swords, gun/spears, gun/daggers, gun/maces, gun/axes, multi-barreled flintlocks, wall guns, punt guns (like a wall gun, but boat mounted), etc.

 

Basically, any HTH weapon you can imagine had a gun built in at some point.

 

cheers, Mark

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

Terry Pratchett's "Men At Arms" offers an interesting variation on "mediaeval" firearms. The "gonne" in question has a rifled barrel ("I had to make quite a complicated tool for that' date='" said Leonard [da Quirm']) and operates on the flintlock principle although it fires self-contained metallic cartridges held in clips of six. The clip is fitted into the breach and moves sideways as the rounds are fired.

 

Truth is stranger than fiction. I hereby present the Harmonica Gun.

[The Weapon]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

Illiterate peasants can be trained to load and shoot a firearm. There's an old saying about' date=' if you want to train a longbowman, you start by training his grandfather.[/quote']

 

Who is almost certainly an illiterate peasant. And quite likely a poacher if he wants to get really good with a bow.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

Truth is stranger than fiction. I hereby present the Harmonica Gun.

 

And here's a breechloading design that could have worked as a flintlock: the Burnside Carbine.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

The Ferguson Rifle was another flintlock breechloader.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

The Ferguson Rifle was another flintlock breechloader.

 

Yeah, I was gonna mention the ferguson

 

Rep for beating me to the punch

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

Yes, it works fine mechanically. It all just depends on if you like mixing tech and magic.

[Markdoc]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

Illiterate peasants can be trained to load and shoot a firearm. There's an old saying about' date=' if you want to train a longbowman, you start by training his grandfather.[/quote']

 

You are probably thinking of crossbows

 

Early guns were very expensive and initially the exclusive property of nobles. Later - as they came to dominate the battlefield - they were mostly used by professional mercenaries (who often cost more to hire per head than landless knights). The real advantage of early guns was not ease of use (matchlocks are far harder to use reliably than bows and to get a decent rate of fire required lots of training), and it certainly wasn't accuracy. It was firepower. Late medieval armies that faced a lot of bow-armed opponents had evolved to use cavalry more often dismounted and the increase in mass-production of plate armour meant that heavily-armoured foot was also more common. In that situation, the longbow became largely ineffective (it's why in England over the 15th century, the archers used were more and more often provincial levies: professional soldiers - even commoners - were abandoning the bow for plate armour and a heavy polearm).

 

The gun put an end to that. At medium range, guns could scythe through any sort of troops, regardless of how heavily armoured and at close range, they were devastating. Team them up with pikemen to prevent a rapid cavalry charge sweeping your gunners away whilst unprepared and you have a winning combination. Also - not coincidentally, you have the army form that ushered out the middle ages.

 

So, I don't use gunpowder weapons in my fantasy games, but if I did, they'd likely be AP, a DC up from the heaviest bows and -1 range mod.

 

cheers, Mark

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

You are probably thinking of crossbows

 

Ahhhh... you're right. My statement is true of modern, mass produced firearms... and of crossbows.

[DusterBoy]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

Truth is stranger than fiction. I hereby present the Harmonica Gun.

 

Wow. That's eerie. I wonder if Terry knew about it when he wrote "Men At Arms"?

 

Thanks for posting it, Staff. (In the British Army, "Staff" is an accepted abbreviation for Staff Sergeant.)

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

If I can't find my Early Firearms for HERO notes I may just have to reconstruct them.

 

I agree with what MarcDoc said.

 

I'm a bit more than a bit of an ancient firearms geek.

I've shot basically everything from a match-fired handcannon up through percussion cap revolvers. I have a deep and abiding love affair with 16th & 17th century guns. I've built a variety of the buggers, matchlocks, flintlocks, cannon...

 

That said I'm also a pretty damn good archer, so I can do a decent comparison.

 

I think the rules I came up with pretty well showed why black powder would eventually change the face of war. The rate of fire is the biggest limitation.

 

In early tech levels/fantasy games I tend to give guns the "exhibiting a power" or "Violent actions" PRE attack bonus, while volley fire gets "Extremely violent action".

The first time I was downrange from a cannon battery trying to charge it, even KNOWING they were shooting blanks the urge was VERY strong to grab dirt. While the "hail of death" slithering of a volley of arrows speeding home can be very creepy, it doesn't hold a candle to the "holy FRACK" factor of being in the concussion zone of a 4 pound field piece.

 

Some other points I've pondered on this topic...

Smoke.

Probably best as a semi-useful side effects (like jet exhaust or blowback from a rocket launcher). Black powder makes a LOT of smoke. Some period tactics discussions factor this into play. It was a big deal with naval warfare because of how it interacted with wind. Volley fire effectively creates a smokescreen in front of your troops. Part of why Pike & Shot squares are so scary to attack.. all that smoke is full of pointy bits you can't see.

 

Sure, It messes with your ability to aim too... but you're busy reloading, right?

 

I'm also pretty inclined to give guns a +1 Stun Mod, especially if Slings get this too.

 

bullets are also more likly to cause infected wounds from carrying foreign matter into the wound site, but now we're getting out of the scope of what's usually covered in Hero...

[ThothAmon]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

Have a quick peek here for pictorial inspiration:

 

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_spot_combo.php

[Old Man]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

"Shield with sword blade, gauntlet, sword catchers, and lantern"

 

Good thing they had the lantern in there, otherwise it'd have been too specialized.

[assault]

Re: Guns in Fantasy

 

"Shield with sword blade, gauntlet, sword catchers, and lantern"

 

Good thing they had the lantern in there, otherwise it'd have been too specialized.

 

It was used by the Renaissance Green Lantern.

 

"In brightest day, in blackest night, ..."