System Gurus...help?

[SteveZilla]

Re: System Gurus...help?

 

All of chuck noriris is desolid with all of his attacks effect solid

 

What is the one thing that desolid requires to be able to hurt chuck

 

 

 

 

Bruce Lee

 

 

 

This got me to thinking. If the person in the spoiler above hadn't died, would Chuck have still turned out as big as he did?

[JmOz]

Re: System Gurus...help?

 

This got me to thinking. If the person in the spoiler above hadn't died' date=' would Chuck have still turned out as big as he did?[/quote']

 

My money says no

[Alibear]

Re: System Gurus...help?

 

Basically' date=' we still allow the movement to happen, but [i']after[/i] the attack has taken place. This seemed to be a good compromise.

 

Otherwise, Flying Dodge is the best 4 points that you can spend on any character.

 

Exactly as I do.

[incrdbil]

Re: System Gurus...help?

 

From reading the answers by Steve to the question, it seems obvious to me that the movement portion of Flying dodge only occurs after attack. If you can't move behind an intervening obstacle and eliminate the chance ot be hit, that means the attacker is hitting you before you lose LOS. Distance isn't mentioned as being a factor.

 

Therefore..I'd say Flying dodge would be no better than a normal dodge when it comes to an AoE attack. the Dodge portion of playing dodge immediately modifies your DCV. the AOE hits. Then your move takes place. that means you couldnt automatically move out of hth range. Basically, its a slightly less effective dodge that lets you do some movement.

 

Worked out that way, Flying dodge isn't that much of a problem.

 

It's still cheap at 4 points though, and even restricted as above, should be look at cautiously. I mean, for the cost of a normal martial dodge versus flying dodge, buying a limited DCV level, only when dodging to make it equal in effectiveness is no problem for the utility of the move.

 

 

 

Character buys Flying Dodge.

Character buys AoE Attack Power Linked to Running.

 

The link to running should give no cost break. . As running is a power almost always being used, its not a limitation. The attack power would still have to be bought AOE, Continous, Mobile, or some form of AOE damage shield type efffect--with possibly a trigger of some form, to be of use during the abort moves. That many advantages means either a VERY expensive power, or a small amount of dice in a game with active point limits.

[jtelson]

Re: System Gurus...help?

 

From reading the answers by Steve to the question, it seems obvious to me that the movement portion of Flying dodge only occurs after attack. If you can't move behind an intervening obstacle and eliminate the chance ot be hit, that means the attacker is hitting you before you lose LOS. Distance isn't mentioned as being a factor.

 

Therefore..I'd say Flying dodge would be no better than a normal dodge when it comes to an AoE attack. the Dodge portion of playing dodge immediately modifies your DCV. the AOE hits. Then your move takes place. that means you couldnt automatically move out of hth range. Basically, its a slightly less effective dodge that lets you do some movement.

 

Worked out that way, Flying dodge isn't that much of a problem.

 

It's still cheap at 4 points though, and even restricted as above, should be look at cautiously. I mean, for the cost of a normal martial dodge versus flying dodge, buying a limited DCV level, only when dodging to make it equal in effectiveness is no problem for the utility of the move.

 

The FAQ makes it pretty clear on how flying Dodge is intended to work in regards to AOE attacks

 

 

If a character with Flying Dodge moves out of the way of an area-affecting attack, compare the inches moved to where the attack hits (typically the hex the character was formerly standing in) and the attack’s size — it’s possible that, as with a Dive For Cover, the character’s movement didn’t carry him far enough to get out of the way. If the Flying Dodge’s movement carries him beyond the area covered by the Area Of Effect/Explosion, then the attack doesn’t affect him.

 

Also IIRC ranged attacks suffer from range penalties based on the targets position after the movement portion of the Flying Dodge. The business with not being able to run around the corner is purely a mechanic to control the maneuver's overall utility.

[incrdbil]

Re: System Gurus...help?

 

The FAQ makes it pretty clear on how flying Dodge is intended to work in regards to AOE attacks

 

Then there is a clash here. if you can get out of one attack via flying dodge, you certainly should be able to get away from other attacks. An AoE is an advantage after all, but according to these rulings, AoE attacks are specifically weaker than non AoE attacks when it comes to flying dodge, excepting AOe one hex bought as the 'accurate' version, I suppose.

 

 

Also IIRC ranged attacks suffer from range penalties based on the targets position after the movement portion of the Flying Dodge. The business with not being able to run around the corner is purely a mechanic to control the maneuver's overall utility.

 

If the range modifier is based on full distance travelled 9after all, its not a velocity penalty), then that shot is being taken at that full range..and if LOS isn't there, the attack shouldn't happen. ccording to this, the shot suffersn penalties for a range the target hasn't gotten to yet..or somehow attacks know how to go around corners and follow flying dodgers.

 

On set of these answers just doesn't fit with the other.

 

I'm now more favorable, as a GM, to disallowing it, or limiting as I thought above. But its current 'official' FAQ status is just confusing.

[Silbeg]

Re: System Gurus...help?

 

The FAQ makes it pretty clear on how flying Dodge is intended to work in regards to AOE attacks

 

Well, just because the FAQ says it works that way, doesn't mean I like it. In fact, I personally think it is a poorly thought out ruling.

 

In fact, Steve's posts that refer to Flying Dodge often have a lot of "wiggle room" about them.

 

Personally, I think the real issue was that this was a late addition UMA, and wasn't well enough thought out as to how it interacts with the rules. In fact, other than on the maneuver chart, I don't think there is much about it in UMA... especially not the stuff that is in the FAQ.

 

I believe the intent was to allow a dodging full move... that the real problem with the maneuver is the Abort portion. If it were like the Block that could also Grab (the latter of which you cannot abort to), then I think it might be more balanced.

 

In other words...

Since you cannot abort to movement, I should think that you could not abort to a Flying Dodge if you are going to use the FMove component. If you are only dodging, then you can abort to it.

 

However, just making the movement fall after the attack goes a long way towards balancing it.

 

At least in my opinion.

[pinecone]

Re: System Gurus...help?

 

This got me to thinking. If the person in the spoiler above hadn't died' date=' would Chuck have still turned out as big as he did?[/quote']

 

Sure, "Kick boxing Cowboy" is a schtick that has few contenders...Mr. Norris has it too himself....except for Billie Jack!

[jtelson]

Re: System Gurus...help?

 

On set of these answers just doesn't fit with the other.

 

I'm now more favorable, as a GM, to disallowing it, or limiting as I thought above. But its current 'official' FAQ status is just confusing.

 

Rules aren't always going to make sense (We both held down the trigger on a machine gun, why'd she run out of bullets first?) Within any set of game rules there are almost always going to be Rules for Balance that can strain suspension of disbelief. There was clearly on some level a design choice about Flying Dodge's value vs. cost where the tipping point was 'absolute evasion of a ranged attack'. If it provided it, it was no longer considered balanced so it was decided to disallow flying around a corner evasion rather than increasing the cost of the maneuver.

 

I disallow the maneuver altogether in my games. I find it crazy overpowered; there are many (or some anyway) that don't have an issue with it or opt to tweak it a bit w/ houserules. You just need to find a way that makes it balanced for what you're running. I'm pretty sure there was at least one thread around here that discussed Flying Dodge in painful detail.