Statting Out Minor Enemies

[Akiva]

So, after several 'sessions' of just hanging out, tweaking character builds, discussing the campaign setting, going over skill and combat rolls, and so forth, we're finally going to actually start the campaign tomorrow evening.

 

Knowing that I'm going to want to throw at least one combat scene at them, I sat down to work that out. I fired up HERO Designer and then thought to myself, 'Do I really need to do all of this just for a handful of grungy gang members? I don't need their COM scores. I doubt I'll need their EGO, INT, ECV, and so forth either.' I figure, as long as I give them reasonable stats and skills, I should be covered. It's just going to be a minor gun fight.

 

So, when you guys are statting out minor NPCs for combat, what all stats do you insist on covering? For a modern game, where a quick gun battle is expected, I imagine I'll only need STR, DEX, CON, BODY, PD, SPD, REC, END, STUN, and a couple of skills to cover their combat abilities.

 

Am I missing anything?

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

DEX, SPD.

 

BODY, STUN.

 

nPD, rPD.

 

Stun#: If he takes more than this in one hit, he's Stunned. CON, plus rPD + nPD (if and only if rPD >0).

 

DCV. OCV with primary weapon.

 

STR if it matters for HTH combat.

 

I wouldn't bother with REC and END.

 

Optionally, how many hits he takes to get put out of the fight. Some mooks are 1-hit wonders, some might take 2-3 to put out.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

What he said. In general I think supers and even most heroic-level heroes should take out most mooks in one hit. Mooks are flavor or annoyances on the way to the main bad guys.

[lemming]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

What I do is with most mooks, exceed their Con once, they're totally out of it. Otherwise, they might last a couple hits.

[Alibear]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

For me a grungy gang member is a normal bloke with a gun or knife. Nothing else.

 

3CV, the stats for the weapon you want, and if they take a half decent hit he won't partake in anymore violence. Depending on the damage the might be dead, dying or just in an awful lot of pain.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

Yeah. I tend to list people as one, two or three hit people. Alibear's point is a useful one - though they are 'out' as far as any combat is concerned you have to decide whether you want them to be unconcious, dead, departing the scene or simply lying feeling sorry for themselves...

 

These have consequences in information gathering post combat.

 

Doc

[lemming]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

Yeah. I tend to list people as one, two or three hit people. Alibear's point is a useful one - though they are 'out' as far as any combat is concerned you have to decide whether you want them to be unconcious, dead, departing the scene or simply lying feeling sorry for themselves...

 

These have consequences in information gathering post combat.

 

Doc

I put the intent of the PC on what the condition of the mooks are.

[Alibear]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

Sure, and fully unloading with a large DC attack against a 2 pd normal is showing an intent to kill, maim and or seriously injure. If the player 'pulled a punch' or used less dice I'd be happier to insert a bit of leniency.

[Vondy]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

DX, SPD, CV

PD/ED, ST

Stunned # (CON + DEF)

Damage

 

Very similiar to Chris' method.

 

I use the following mook rule: stunned = out.

[Alibear]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

If any take 3 or more body they're out for me too.

[caris]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

Knowing that I'm going to want to throw at least one combat scene at them, I sat down to work that out. I fired up HERO Designer and then thought to myself, 'Do I really need to do all of this just for a handful of grungy gang members? I don't need their COM scores. I doubt I'll need their EGO, INT, ECV, and so forth either.' I figure, as long as I give them reasonable stats and skills, I should be covered. It's just going to be a minor gun fight.

 

So, when you guys are statting out minor NPCs for combat, what all stats do you insist on covering? For a modern game, where a quick gun battle is expected, I imagine I'll only need STR, DEX, CON, BODY, PD, SPD, REC, END, STUN, and a couple of skills to cover their combat abilities.

 

Am I missing anything?

 

 

You may be going a little overboard possibly, as others have pointed out. Personally, I see some value in fully statting out a "typical" version of your grungy gang member. It gives you a place to work from when you are creating more meaningful members of the gang like the leaders, a reference for other gangs, and if you want to use the gang for scenarios that might require more detailed information you already have it. (I never really worry about point totals for NPCs other than just as a general sanity check.)

 

For the situation you are describing, I'd have the following information for the "typical" gang member at the top of my tracking sheet. Damage from STR and STR roll, Dex and CVs (with applicable levels, bonuses or penalties) and Dex Roll, Con, Per roll, either EGO or PRE (whichever is higher), PD and ED (including any relavent armor), REC (though I'm likely to drop it and not give the mooks any recoveries), SPD, Damage from weapons, any skill rolls I feel might be relavent. Depending on the scenario and/or campaign I might include other details like Ego roll, exotic Defences, etc.

 

The rest of the sheet is taken up with spaces for each gang member that would have BODY, END (another I'm likely to drop if I feel the END use would be trivial or too much hassle for example if I expect the mooks to all drop in within two full Turns), STUN, and anything relavent to the gang member that is different from the "typical" (it is nice to give one of the mooks something to make them stand out from time to time). The space should also be large enough to track Damage and End use. (I prefer to give the mooks an STUN based on what the "average" damage for the party would be and how many of those that I want the mook to take before dropping, that way unusually high and low damage rolls have meaning. This is, of course, just a personal preference.)

[JmOz]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

What about, and this is completly off the cuff, and only intended for minnions:

 

You come up with a value, probably similar to Con+Def, then a level on top of that, say +10, for each level above it is a matter of what happens

 

So Con+def, the character is out of the fight but still contious, may try to flee, may be in to much pain to do much, might even get back in the fight in a dramatic fashion later (Shot in the back when the hero is distracted)

 

+10 Stun the individual is KO'd but should come around shortly after the fight

+20 Stun the individual is injured and should get some minor medical help (Broken bones, concusion, etc...) will not be able to be questioned right away, but will live and be fine

+30 Stun better get him to a hospital

+40 Death's Door/Dead

 

just a random idea, you could set the +xx for what you want in your campeign (Lowering for more deadly, increaseing for less)...

[Netzilla]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

I tend to use the attached Minion Sheet. Unfortunately, I don't remember where I originally got it.

[azato]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

If only we could have this Minion sheet as an export function in Hero Designer!

 

I tend to use the attached Minion Sheet. Unfortunately' date=' I don't remember where I originally got it.[/quote']

[Akiva]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I ended up going with just the bare essentials based off what Chris wrote and it worked out like a champ.

[Netzilla]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

If only we could have this Minion sheet as an export function in Hero Designer!

 

Psych Lim: Urge to Tinker, Common Strong

EGO 8; Roll = 11-

 

Rolls an 18 and massively fails!

[azato]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

**almost** perfect. Can you copy the the BODY STUN END down to the individual minions on the second page?

 

You are da man!

 

 

 

Psych Lim: Urge to Tinker, Common Strong

EGO 8; Roll = 11-

 

Rolls an 18 and massively fails!

[azato]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

Also (if I may be so bold), the names of the powers doesn't show up. Here is an example orc that I tried. This is especially problematic under the ATTACKS box in the first column.

 

**almost** perfect. Can you copy the the BODY STUN END down to the individual minions on the second page?

 

You are da man!

[Netzilla]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

**almost** perfect. Can you copy the the BODY STUN END down to the individual minions on the second page?

 

Actually, I tend to use those boxes to track the minion's current values rather than starting. So, I leave them blank and use pencil for easy erasing.

 

Also (if I may be so bold), the names of the powers doesn't show up. Here is an example orc that I tried. This is especially problematic under the ATTACKS box in the first column.

 

Unfortunately, HD doesn't require you to name your powers and so I can't rely on a name being there. Also, I'm not sure how fancy I can get with the logic since the template is just an XML document. This is the first export template I've built from the ground up (rather than just tweaking someone else's). Still, I'll play around with it some this weekend to see what I can do.

[azato]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

I have hit the rep limit for you at this time. I definitely am still in debt.

 

Actually, I tend to use those boxes to track the minion's current values rather than starting. So, I leave them blank and use pencil for easy erasing.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, HD doesn't require you to name your powers and so I can't rely on a name being there. Also, I'm not sure how fancy I can get with the logic since the template is just an XML document. This is the first export template I've built from the ground up (rather than just tweaking someone else's). Still, I'll play around with it some this weekend to see what I can do.

[Netzilla]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

Okay, I've fixed the export template to display names. I've also got it ignoring separators and list headers since this is meant to just be a quick-and-dirty minion sheet and not a detailed character breakdown. You can find the fixed version in my first post.

 

Here's a zombie as an example of what the output looks like.

[Netzilla]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

Okay' date=' I've fixed the export template to display names. I've also got it ignoring separators and list headers since this is meant to just be a quick-and-dirty minion sheet and not a detailed character breakdown. You can find the fixed version in my first post.

 

Here's a zombie as an example of what the output looks like.

 

I updated the original posting again (linked above) with a few minor tweaks to the template.

[azato]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

Very nice. Very nice. It looks like it doesn't handle compound powers, which is understandable. Great job mister!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup:

 

 

I updated the original posting again (linked above) with a few minor tweaks to the template.

[Netzilla]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

Very nice. Very nice. It looks like it doesn't handle compound powers' date=' which is understandable. Great job mister!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup:[/quote']

 

Hmm. I don't think I've ever done up a minion with a compound power, but I can see where it might come up (several gun constructs with OCV mods come to mind). I'll have to do some testing to see what I can do.

 

Thanks, BTW.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Statting Out Minor Enemies

 

I talk about a few methods for dealing with "chumps" midway thru this document:

 

Lethality Options

 

specifically:

 

* X HITS: An easy method to do chump drops is to just decide how many solid hits a chump can take, regardless of how much damage is really inflicted. Some might be one hit wonders, others might take two or five hits, but when their hit limit is reached they go down.

* IGNORE BODY, 0 STUN = DEAD: You can just ignore BODY for chumps, and assume if they hit 0 STUN they're done for.

* IGNORE STUN, 0 BODY = DEAD: You can conversely ignore STUN and just track BODY -- but still check for CON Stunning; this is kind of like turning chumps into weaker versions of Automatons without paying for it so be careful of doing this in conjunction with good defences.

* DRAMATICALLY APPROPRIATE: The GM just decides that when its dramatically appropriate for a chump to take a dirt nap, they do.

 

 

 

There are other ways as well, of course.