Stacking resistant PD/ED

[RPGamer]

I'm new to the Hero System and loving it, but....

 

I haven't been able to locate any rules (in 5RE or FH) regarding wearing armor and using a power (like force field or damage resistance) together to "stack" resistant PD/ED to cut down the amount of BODY one takes.

 

Also, is it within the rules to use force field and damage resistance powers together to stack PD/ED as well ?

 

Can anyone point out where I should be looking.

 

If there are not any explicit rules regarding this, some advice would be appreciated for a FH campaign.

 

Basically I want to know how to handle stacking of resistant PD/ED using gear + power or power + power.

 

Thank you and I look forward to your replies.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Stacking resistant PD/ED

 

There are no Stacking Rules per se in HERO. I looked for them as well, and for the same reason; depending on your threat level, a little stacking goes a LONG way. My solution is actually very close to the d20 canon. Long story short: I played d20 since launch, came to HERO 2.5 years ago, never looked back.

 

I always insist I run the game RAW (Rules As Written). I apologize; I have TWO house rules, and both apply to armor/defenses. They are, simply:

 

1) Combat Luck (written as 3rPD/3rED normally) I have changed too "must be aware of attack, -1/2" and "does not stack, -1/2." Because Combat Luck, to me, assumes that you're out of armor or otherwise defenseless. It's a Hero's last resort (for my settings, this works well; other people liked it, some shrugged).

 

2) Different TYPES of Defenses stack; one Magic Item, one Spell (such as Force Field), one Armor, and so on. This keeps people from getting 3 different Force Field Power based spells that may all have different SFX. If you were in my game, and had a +4 rPD necklace, and a +2 rPD Ring, only the necklace would apply. Otherwise I'd have people with 20 rPD two spells later. Because I have mid-fantasy, and not "monster of the week," this works really well. For a loot wagon campaign, there are lots of other attacks that side-step rPD.

 

Hence, and because HERO is a toolkit system, no stacking rules are in place. But by all means, create your own.

[CTaylor]

Re: Stacking resistant PD/ED

 

Right: as written, you can have armor, force field, damage resistance, force wall, even an entangle that doesn't restrict movement all on top of you at once, and several iterations of each (a suit of armor, a ring with armor, a spell that grants armor, etc). It's wise for GMs to find a way in a heroic setting at least to limit this with some stacking rules.

[azato]

Re: Stacking resistant PD/ED

 

The thing you have to worry about is balance. High DEF can greatly tip the scales to making characters impossible to hurt unless you start throwing big guns at them.

 

With a DEF 6 a person is immune to 1d6 Damage and will walk away **almost** 1/2 the time with 2d6 damage. Your campaign may be about throwing high powered killing attacks around. If that is the case then the characters will have to stack to survive. If you want a lower powered campaign not only may you want to NOT stack DEF but you may forbid powers that grant too much DEF.

 

A 20pt PD FF can be purchased very cheaply by a mage. He could shrug off 4D6 almost every single time. He may still get stunned but he can walk away with out a scratch.

[CTaylor]

Re: Stacking resistant PD/ED

 

And it comes down to conception; personally I don't have a problem with magi having that kind of defenses, because they can't walk around all the time with it like a combat specialist can. It has to be cast, it costs points to buy, it costs Endurance (or mana) to cast, it takes a skill roll, and so on. The price the mage pays is worth a different set of rules than a fighter type.

 

Other games may vary. CV is another thing you have to be careful with in stacking. A sword plus a few skill levels plus a decent Dex and a martial arts maneuver and normal fighting guys can have 9+ OCV. Add in a magical "buff" or two and this guy can use called shots all day long and not miss.

[azato]

Re: Stacking resistant PD/ED

 

Why not?

 

...because they can't walk around all the time with it like a combat specialist can.

[CTaylor]

Re: Stacking resistant PD/ED

 

Because if it's always on, it ceases to be a magical spell and becomes a superpower or a personal ability, like strength or eyesight. Spells have to have a distinct beginning and ending, a cast point and a time they shut off.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Stacking resistant PD/ED

 

As a general rule of thumb, doubling the weight of the armor adds 2 to the rPD and rED. It stands to reason that, when stacking armor, if layer 1 and layer 2 have the same PD/ED (ie, are the same weight, assuming you're talking about normal armor), then add 2, don't add them together unless they're both values of 1. If the armor layers aren't equal, then take the highest and add 1 (or nothing if they are very unequal...a heavy jacket doesn't add a lot of protection to a steel breastplate).

[azato]

Re: Stacking resistant PD/ED

 

Then let the mages wear armor.

 

 

Because if it's always on' date=' it ceases to be a magical spell and becomes a superpower or a personal ability, like strength or eyesight. Spells have to have a distinct beginning and ending, a cast point and a time they shut off.[/quote']

[CTaylor]

Re: Stacking resistant PD/ED

 

I have no rules against anyone wearing any armor, I'm just pointing out that magic has to follow certain rules or it stops being magic; that means mages having higher defenses than others is not necessarily unbalancing or problematic.

[azato]

Re: Stacking resistant PD/ED

 

True, except the force field would have some sort of effect that would be noticeable by everybody. That might put all the NPCs on edge thinking he is about to do something bad. It might even make him a target.

[Markdoc]

Re: Stacking resistant PD/ED

 

My simple rule of thumb is that you can't stack powers and free (real) stuff. So if you have a forcefield and (real) armour, you get the better of the two. If you have armour and Combat luck, you get the better of the two. If you have a 1d6 HKA and a shortsword, you have 2 x 1d6 HKA, not a 2d6 HKA. You don't - ever - add them. (Note: this means that I do not allow Deadly Blow, though I do allow other, more expensive constructs that do the same thing)

 

If, however you pay points for both, then they are regular powers and you can add them.

 

The reasons for this are simple: layering defences can rapidly make characters almost invulnerable to normal weapons. Stacking attacks renders mundane armour all but useless.

 

Mages *can* become invulnerable to normal weapons - but that's manageable. Not only is it in genre, but unless your magic system is set up to control magic in some way (duration, casting limitations, whatever) mages will eventually trash every other character class anyway. having mages be powerful is not such a big deal if every major character uses magic anyway.

 

cheers, Mark

[CTaylor]

Re: Stacking resistant PD/ED

 

That might put all the NPCs on edge thinking he is about to do something bad. It might even make him a target.

 

Another excellent reason that mages having greater defenses and CV than a melee character is not such a terrible concept. That, plus the fact that mages tend to be wimpy under all that magic, so if you get an attack through, they'll be stunned (and their defenses probably drop) or even unconscious (they definitely will drop).

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Stacking resistant PD/ED

 

Stacking Defenses advice