How would you: emulate Ars Magica

[Crypt]

For instance, what about simply using the AM skills:

 

Techniques skills:

Creo

Intellego

Muto

Perdo

Rego

 

Forms skills

Animal

Aquam

Auram

Corpus

Herbam

Ignem

Imaginem

Mentem

Terram

Vim

 

 

form and technique would be combined (as in AM) in order to obtain a Roll-.

 

For instance:

Rego +1 cost: 5

+

Ignem +2 cost 7

=

ROLL = (9+CHAR/5)+1+2. (if CHAR= 15 ===> Roll=9+3+3= 15- )

 

For formulaïc spells (already known by the character) it would follow the standard "Required a skill roll" rule => -1 per 10 Active Points.

 

For spontaneous spells => Active points = (success margin+1) * 5.

 

 

 

 

If one tech or form is Untrained: replace (9+CHAR/5) by 6 thus:

Rego untrained

+

Ignem +2 cost 7

=

ROLL = 6+2 = 8-

or replace the final ROLL- by 6 or simply forbid the roll, as you prefer.

 

 

Because spontaneous casting can be very potent maybe techs and forms cost should be increased as if there were an advantage on them (?)

+1, for a final 6/4 cost instead of 3/2 ?

 

 

 

PS: i'm not sure VPP would be a so good alternative....

[Karmakaze]

Re: How would you: emulate Ars Magica

 

I actually like the skill roll / assisted skill roll technique. The only reason I might add a VPP in there would be if you were trying to balance your mages against other character types (in which case you might use the skill roll system, but require the PC to have enough points in a VPP to cover the effect costs.)

 

Ars Magica, as I recall, just didn't bother balancing mages on the grounds that life isn't fair

[Doc Democracy]

Re: How would you: emulate Ars Magica

 

For instance:

Rego +1 cost: 5

+

Ignem +2 cost 7

=

ROLL = (9+CHAR/5)+1+2. (if CHAR= 15 ===> Roll=9+3+3= 15- )

 

For formulaïc spells (already known by the character) it would follow the standard "Required a skill roll" rule => -1 per 10 Active Points.

 

For spontaneous spells => Active points = (success margin+1) * 5.

 

 

So you have a 15- roll and you want to cast a spell you already know. If that is 40 Active Points then the roll is 11-, so an 8D6 attack (for example, that would be Creo Ignem??) would work 62.5% of the time? Looks reasonable.

 

If you had not learned that spell then rolled 11- then your active points in the attack would be (4+1)*5 = 25 active points or 5D6. Again a reasonable diminishment for similar effort.

 

However what you then have is the known spell be more tiring than twisting the magic how you want it. It might be worth making spontaneous magic more END using by charging 1 END/5 active points?

 

Perhaps you could control the effective power of the mages by having them all buy END reserves from which they power their magic and only very powerful mages will be able to cast powerful spells and have the reserves to power them....

 

This does get away from the feel of Ars Magica though and much more towards Hero. I think that it is good enough to allow the power to simply come because the mage is skilled enough in the Arts.

 

Another question comes to mind about spontaneous casting - obviously the effects are less but there seems no down side to it. If the caster was looking for a fire attack of 8D6 and only gets enough success for 5D6 what does that mean for the caster. Are there potential side effects of getting the spell wrong.

 

What if the known spell rolls 12? For spontaneous casting that still has an effect, for known spell does it get any effect?

 

I was also wondering about the adding procedure. With my sketchy memory of Ars Magica, more complex spells requiring more elements were more difficult to accomplish, no??

 

In your system something requiring the creation and control of a fiery golem would simply add the various elements and get a higher roll. Possibly that would be offset by something requiring all of those elements to be high active points but that is not necessarily so and you might get complex spells created simply to access the added elements, especially if it was to be a spontaneous casting...

 

I'm not giving you any concrete alternative proposals - I do like your system but those are the questions in my head about it.

 

Doc

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: How would you: emulate Ars Magica

 

I'd start with a Variable Power Pool.

 

Each of your Techniques and Forms is a Power Skill. Whatever spell you want to cast, work it up as a Power construct in your VPP, with two RSRs. For instance, a basic ignite fire spell for 1/2d6 RKA would require the Creo and Ignem Power Skills. You'd have to make both rolls in order to get the spell out.

 

Crypt, if you don't like that alternative, it sounds like what you're describing is a basic Skill Roll for the casting, and the Forms and Techniques are Skill Levels. That might be an avenue to explore, though I'd still recommend a VPP.

[Crypt]

Re: How would you: emulate Ars Magica

 

However what you then have is the known spell be more tiring than twisting the magic how you want it. It might be worth making spontaneous magic more END using by charging 1 END/5 active points?

 

You're right, actually, in the Ars Magica system, spontaneous spells are more tiring than formulaïc ones.

 

Another question comes to mind about spontaneous casting - obviously the effects are less but there seems no down side to it. If the caster was looking for a fire attack of 8D6 and only gets enough success for 5D6 what does that mean for the caster. Are there potential side effects of getting the spell wrong.

 

It depends on the wanted effects.

If you want to bypass a determined difficulty (unlock a door, etc), failure to attain the needed level is still a failure, that's true for both F & S spells.

 

For spontaneous spells =

If you want to make an energy attack, you do your best, a 5D6 is still a success.

 

For formulaïc spells =

Basically the spell has a fixed effect so failure to attain the needed margin is still a failure, even for an energy attack.

But, of course, we can imagine the character may want to cast a less potent version of a formulaïc spell. In this case the character must declare it before rolling.

 

Note: as i remember, in AM, formulaïc casting has another bonus because, as far as i remember the spell is failed only if you miss by a number (i don't remember how much.) This is the same as saying you get +X for formulaïc casting.

 

 

 

What if the known spell rolls 12? For spontaneous casting that still has an effect, for known spell does it get any effect?

 

to be sure there is no confusion:

Formulaïc = known spell

Spontaneous = not known spell.

 

So, for a F spell, if you miss, you miss. (but see previous note.)

 

 

In your system something requiring the creation and control of a fiery golem would simply add the various elements and get a higher roll. Possibly that would be offset by something requiring all of those elements to be high active points but that is not necessarily so and you might get complex spells created simply to access the added elements, especially if it was to be a spontaneous casting...

 

Imho that's the limit of an AM emulation.

AM and HERO doesn't really have the same definition for "complexity" but i think it's not a problem => my base reference would be the HERO one.

I don't really care about emulating AM effects, my goal is only to emulate AM 's casting mechanisms.

 

 

 

 

---------------------------

You'd have to make both rolls in order to get the spell out.

 

i'd prefer one roll.

 

Crypt, if you don't like that alternative, it sounds like what you're describing is a basic Skill Roll for the casting, and the Forms and Techniques are Skill Levels.

 

yes.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: How would you: emulate Ars Magica

 

Imho that's the limit of an AM emulation.

AM and HERO doesn't really have the same definition for "complexity" but i think it's not a problem => my base reference would be the HERO one.

I don't really care about emulating AM effects, my goal is only to emulate AM 's casting mechanisms.

 

And given its your game then that's entirely up to you.

 

 

Let us know if you play it and how it works...

 

Doc

[Crypt]

Re: How would you: emulate Ars Magica

 

Let us know if you play it and how it works...

 

actually as i currently gamemaster a Harp/Hârn and a Space Hero campaign and play a true Ars Magica 4 campaign of a friend there is very few probabilities i would gm a Ars Hero campaign this year...

[Captain Obvious]

Re: How would you: emulate Ars Magica

 

There is a variant of RSR where you have to make two skill rolls. Make each Technique and Form a Power skill and limit powers/VPP accordingly.