megaplayboy Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II The important thing is that "battlecruiser" is an awesome name for a ship class' date=' right up there with "dreadnaught".[/quote'] Panzerschiffe is pretty cool, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II The British has a habit of designing their battlecruisers with too little armor. Three of them bought it the same way as the Hood did at Jutland. Well, the whole British concept of battlecruisers--battleship-armed vessels that traded armor for a speed advantage--was flawed. They did gain a precious few knots against true battleships, but that didn't matter once battle was joined. And although they weren't meant to go toe to toe with battleships, it kept happening anyway. IIRC Hood's captain was well aware of his ship's shortcomings and did try to close the range as quickly as possible, so as to minimize his exposure to plunging fire. Apparently it wasn't enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II Hood was hit at 15,000 yrds with the killing blow at that range it was flat not plunging fire Hood's armor just was not up to snuff vs what she was up against POW as a target only had 2 problems that the Germans probably knew or suspected 1 newer ship might and did have teething problems 2 1 hit to a turret has a 2/3 chance of taking out 40% of her firepower, only 25% on Hood should a turret be hit Hood was the flagship and a symbol Lighter Armor,Command and Control and Fame going into harm's way made her the choice target Well, the whole British concept of battlecruisers--battleship-armed vessels that traded armor for a speed advantage--was flawed. They did gain a precious few knots against true battleships, but that didn't matter once battle was joined. And although they weren't meant to go toe to toe with battleships, it kept happening anyway. IIRC Hood's captain was well aware of his ship's shortcomings and did try to close the range as quickly as possible, so as to minimize his exposure to plunging fire. Apparently it wasn't enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II Besides, the Prince of Wales was 35K tons -a full 20% smaller than the Bismark or Hood. It was generally assumed that she could not have handled the Bismark on her own, where (theoretically) the Hood could have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II From all the specs I have seen naval minis games and WW2 computer game(Fighting Steel) PoW could give a good showing vs Bismark If she was up to snuff and not suffering from teething pains Remenber that there are 2 cruisers that are hanging back but still are in view of Bismark and Eugen so the Brits still have a numerical superority of 3 vs 2 It was that PoW was having problems with 1 4 gun turret and lost 40% of her firepower is why the PoW broke contact It was a shot from PoW that punched Bismark's fuel tank If PoW was up to snuff and the 2 Ca's had engaged Eugen(16 x 8" cannon and 16 21" torpedoes vs 8 x 8" cannon and 12 torpedeos 21" Bismark and Eugen might have been held in contact longer and a whole different out come would have happened if both Ca's take on Eugen even losing 1 to kill Eugen still leaves 1 with 8 torps to close on Bismark Bismark's secondaries are 5.9" guns meant to kill destroyers not Ca's Bismark would have to switch fire with some or all of her main batteries to get a quick kill on a Ca A Ca might live vs 15" shell but she will be hatting life this would lift pressure off of PoW Besides' date=' the [i']Prince of Wales [/i]was 35K tons -a full 20% smaller than the Bismark or Hood. It was generally assumed that she could not have handled the Bismark on her own, where (theoretically) the Hood could have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II Anyone know anything about Yehudi Lights? In particular, why they were called that? Lucius Alexander The palindromedary thinks they were a bright idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II All I know is that the man upon the stair who wasn't there, and wasn't there again today was called "Yehudi" Oh wait, I found something. http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-yeh1.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II From all the specs I have seen naval minis games and WW2 computer game(Fighting Steel) PoW could give a good showing vs Bismark If she was up to snuff and not suffering from teething pains Remenber that there are 2 cruisers that are hanging back but still are in view of Bismark and Eugen so the Brits still have a numerical superority of 3 vs 2 It was that PoW was having problems with 1 4 gun turret and lost 40% of her firepower is why the PoW broke contact It was a shot from PoW that punched Bismark's fuel tank If PoW was up to snuff and the 2 Ca's had engaged Eugen(16 x 8" cannon and 16 21" torpedoes vs 8 x 8" cannon and 12 torpedeos 21" Bismark and Eugen might have been held in contact longer and a whole different out come would have happened if both Ca's take on Eugen even losing 1 to kill Eugen still leaves 1 with 8 torps to close on Bismark Bismark's secondaries are 5.9" guns meant to kill destroyers not Ca's Bismark would have to switch fire with some or all of her main batteries to get a quick kill on a Ca A Ca might live vs 15" shell but she will be hatting life this would lift pressure off of PoW I don't disagree with any of this necessarily, but surface ship combat often seems to have turned on a single lucky hit. What-if conjectures are interesting but perhaps not productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted January 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II American battleship AAA protection, from the South Dakota class on, consisted of 20mm Oerkilon, 40mm Bofors, and 5" Dual Purpose guns (later with proximity fuses). Generally considered the best AAA protection scheme for any battleship. Interesting to speculate on how some theoretical Axis "super ships" might have matched that. The Germans certainly had a similar spectrum of AAA weaponry, including 20mm, 37mm, 75mm, 88mm, 105mm and 128mm guns. A Super Yamato class might have been well-served to replace the 5" and 6" secondaries with the 65 caliber 100mm guns that were considered superior for AAA. In practice the 25mm AAA don't appear to have been that effective, and triple-mounted 37mm, perhaps with adequate shielding, likely would have been a better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II All I know is that the man upon the stair who wasn't there, and wasn't there again today was called "Yehudi" Oh wait, I found something. http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-yeh1.htm Thanks, but I don't think the man upon the stair was Yehudi. According the song, Yehudi was a little man who wasn't there, on the AIR, not on the stair. The little man who wasn’t there Said he heard him on the air No one seems to know from where But who's Yehoodi? I guess I can see how the name got attached to a project to make aircraft "invisible." Now I wonder why an iceberg aircraft carrier was called Habakkuk.... Lucius Alexander The palindromedary thinks this is all pretty tenuously connected to the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II One big advantage the U.S. had in anti-aircraft guns was the VT or proximity fuses that came out in late 1942. This made the dive and torpedo bombing so successful to the Japanese in the early years of the war suicidal. The technology was considered so secret only the Manhattan Project had better security, and it wasn't released to the British until 1944. BTW, Habakkuk, which turned out to be misspelled, is from a phrase in the Bible meaning "To reveal an unrevealed truth". According to "My Tank is Fight" by Jay Parsons, the Aircraft Carrier made of a mix of Ice and Wood Pulp would have displaced 2 Million tons, or roughly that of all the Essex and Independence class carriers built during the war. Lord Mountbatten was very keen on the idea, but after an unfortunate incident with U.S. Admiral Ernest King he was transferred to the Far East and the project was sent for experimentation in central Canada and quietly forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II BTW, Habakkuk, which turned out to be misspelled, is from a phrase in the Bible meaning "To reveal an unrevealed truth". Are you sure of that? I understand the Zohar derives it from a Hebrew root meaning "to embrace." The words "apocolypse" and "revelation" could both be read as "to reveal the previously unrevealed." None of which explains why it would be the name of an aircraft carrier made of ice and woodpulp. And now I see that I'm definitely off topic. Lucius Alexander Still on a palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II I think you're right about it meaning Revelation. Code names are suppose to obsure what the project is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II Thanks' date=' but I don't think the man upon the stair was Yehudi. .[/quote'] I didn't say he was Yehudi. I said he was _called_ Yehudi. By Robert Heinlein as I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II I didn't say he was Yehudi. I said he was _called_ Yehudi. By Robert Heinlein as I recall. Distinction acknowledged. Probably everyone who wasn't there got called Yehudi at one time or another. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary is always here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II Has anyone mentioned the Surcouf or I-400 submarines in this thread yet? The I-400 in particular would be an excellent asset to any pulp hero or villain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II Speaking of which, I went looking for pics and found this: ...which is not the Surcouf. It is alleged to be an IJN ship/sub, possibly a pre-war prototype, but I can't find any more information on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II ... Looks kinda shooped, don't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mackinder Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II Looks a LOT shopped to me. The upperworks almost exactly look like the Surcouf. But the aft section seems disproportionately short for a submarine, and the stern itself looks squared-off rather than the taper that pretty much all subs have even now. My guess is that this originally was a pic of a surface vessel, with elements of the Surcouf later photo-shopped in. Developing something like the Surcouf was probably within the IJN's capabilities. They had a number of subs that could carry observation planes or minisubs - the latter were used to launch the minisub raids against Pearl Harbour and (later) Sydney. Then there were the I-400s, which could carry multiple attack aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II The I-400 mounted a 140mm deck gun, which is small potatoes compared to the Surcouf's twin 203s but still impressive for a sub. The German Type XI was supposed to mount 4 5 inch guns(in twin turrets) and carry a floatplane and had a displacement of around 4500 tons. There was a German U-139 class in WW1, mounting twin 150mm guns. A "Project 47" class, planned but never built, would have mounted 4 150mm guns, have a displacement of 2500+ tons, and carried 6 torpedo tubes, including two firing to the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II Aha! Found it: http://www.nipponcinema.com/trailers/lorelei I guess you could say it's photoshopped... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II The japanese were planning an attack on the Panama Canal using their submarine float planes but the operation was cancelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II The japanese were planning an attack on the Panama Canal using their submarine float planes but the operation was cancelled. I've spent some time wondering how they thought they could do any significant damage to the canal with a few seaplanes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Re: Golden Age Resources: Superweapons of WW II If you could take out a lock or two that might shut it down for a while. But then maybe that's why they cancelled the op. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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