Homo Sapiens and their guns

[Shoutybloke]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

Yes and here is why. Lex Luthor is a normal, well ok he is more than normal, but for purposes of discussion he is basically normal. His nemesis is the most powerful being on the planet. This almost all-powerful being could squish him like a bug if he wanted to. Does Lex give up? NO Lex does not give up, he does not throw away his dreams or ambitions. He works as hard as he can behind the scenes, discovers the weakness of his opponents. He uses the weakness of his opponent to win the contest at hand, and simply walks away without harm.

 

Eventually against all odds Lex Luthor applies Sun Tzu's "Art of War" against his chief rival, Superman, and lives another day to tell about it. This is what Joe Cool does. Thus from a certain point of view Lex Luthor is Joe Cool's personal HERO. Never gives up, never surrenders even against the most powerful being on earth.

 

Joe Cool, Private Eye, Metahuman investigator lives again to face opponents that could squish him like a bug. Undaunted by his relentless pursuit of Justice with a .45, a pack of cigarettes, and a few real super friends, he wins the day again, and another master villain goes to jail. (or in the case of a certain cult leader a small island deserted in the pacific)

 

Except that the only reason Lex lives to fight another day is that Superman refuses to squish him on moral grounds. Basicly, the "weaknesses" that Lex exploits are Supermans compassion, respect for the law, self control and willingness to hold himself to a high moral standard. And if you see those things as weaknesses, then you don't deserve the title of hero.

[Alibear]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

Indeed I can't imagine too many PC's letting old Lexxy away with that type of behaviour for too long. I would really love it if one of the PC's was actually as nice a person as Supes but I'm yet to see it.

 

My players would have dropped him off the top floor of his office block long before now.

[Shoutybloke]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

A basic marine, as per Dark Champions

 

STR 13

DEX 11

CON 11

BODY 10

INT 10

EGO 10

PRE 10

COM 10

PD 3

ED 2

SPD 3

REC 5

END 22

STUN 23

 

+1 Running

KS Military/mercenery/ Terrorist World -11

KS USMC History and Customs -11

PS Marine- 11

Tactics -11

Weapon Familiarity: Small arms, Knives

+ 3 ocv with M16

Contact: USMC -8

Reputation: US Marine -14 large group (Enemy military, patriotic americans) +1d6/+1

 

Disadvantages:

Distinctive Features: USMC uniform

Hunted: USMC -8 watching

Social limitation: Subject to orders (Very Frequently, Major)

 

Notes:

This is a green marine who signed up fresh from high school and has just finished training. He expects to see combat and has worked hard at training, practicing diligently on the range.

Characterisics: STR is a bit high, but necerssary to meet STR min of M16. I think it's a bit mean to give him an OCV penalty, so STR13 it is. He can carry 36 kg of gear without burning end.

Dex and Con are at the low end as per Characteristics benchmarks table. Spd is 3 because the US Marines are highly respected warriors.

When going into battle, he will usually be under the effects of a PRE+ friendly prescence attack from his commander, and gains +5 pre vs enemy pre attacks.

In addition to disavantages, the standard 0 point Psychcological limitation "reluctant to kill" recomended for civilians has been changed to "Willing to kill under orders" (0Points)

[Alibear]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

I would accept that and only question/ tone down the ocv and speed until he had proved himself in combat or be prepared to use the Dark Champion optional Grace Under Fire rules.

[nexus]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

I could use that. There would be a few things I'd drop but I go by average humans have straight 8s in their primary characteristics.

[Shoutybloke]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

Possibly add Psych lim: Green until he gets some combat experience?

[Zed-F]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

It looks like a good skilled normal 25+25 character to me. I would make some tweaks (starting with making the tactics a familiarity -- regular grunts out of basic don't get to have that yet) but use something similar for a trained regular forces soldier.

 

Now veteran troops and special forces at 50+50 do get tactics... and use it. They also get teamwork, and use that. The biggest difference in the quality of the troops is not their stats. It's how smart I run them relative to the regular GIs.

[Alibear]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

Possibly add Psych lim: Green until he gets some combat experience?

 

The Grace Under Fire rules are really very good to simulate people with zero combat experience.

[Shoutybloke]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

 

Now veteran troops and special forces at 50+50 do get tactics... and use it. They also get teamwork, and use that. The biggest difference in the quality of the troops is not their stats. It's how smart I run them relative to the regular GIs.

 

 

According to Dark Champions, a SPD 3 Special forces (green beret) will cost you 155 points.

[Opal]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

That makes sense in Dark Champions - the game is focused on guns, more guns, dead bodies, making more dead bodies, and the criminal, LE, and military/mercenary subcultures. Most of the 155 points are probably spent on things that the character will actually need to live up to the green beret concept. In a more silver-agey game, some of those background skills and abilities could be compressed - instead of dozens of points in specific military-related KSs and perks, he might have PS: Green Beret, for instance, he might not have as many CSLs or points in martial arts, since the normals he'd be expected to shine against are less likely to have such training.

 

I'm not familiar with the 'grace under fire' rules, but I think Hero models a lot of that sort of thing with SPD. Normals (SPD 2), hesitate in combat, reducing what they can try to accomplish in 12 seconds. Incompetent normals (SPD 1) panic and cringe or just stare at the unfolding battle in shocked incomprehension. Hard-core veterans and superbeings who's powers have nothing to with speed (SPD 4), don't hesitate, at all. Speedsters (SPD 6+) can simply do more in 12 seconds than is humanly possible.

[Alibear]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

According to Dark Champions' date=' a SPD 3 Special forces (green beret) will cost you 155 points.[/quote']

 

Steve isn't God and doesn't always agree with how I do things. There are loads of things I disagree with Steve upon. It doesn't mean he isn't churning out quality products though.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

you know, I just picked up Hudson City, and thus have gotten a chance to look at the 5th edition write up for Harby.

 

I'm pretty sure he could take both Dr. D and Taky in a single post 12 if they were using full DC rules and neither happened to have his VPP's set to "Defend against Madman with a gun"

[Shoutybloke]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

Harbinger has a serious chance in combat against Doctor D certainly. I don't think such a battle would be a forgone conclusion for either side.

 

The real threat Harbinger poses to the Doctor though is his investigation and infiltration skills. If Harbinger found out about Destroyer, and somehow became convinced he posed enough of a threat to Hudson city to justify leaving it in the hands of LIBRA for a while, then he could do serious damage to Doctor Destroyers inferstucture, which is what poses the real threat to world security.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

Harbinger has a serious chance in combat against Doctor D certainly. I don't think such a battle would be a forgone conclusion for either side.

 

The real threat Harbinger poses to the Doctor though is his investigation and infiltration skills. If Harbinger found out about Destroyer, and somehow became convinced he posed enough of a threat to Hudson city to justify leaving it in the hands of LIBRA for a while, then he could do serious damage to Doctor Destroyers inferstucture, which is what poses the real threat to world security.

 

Yeah, he's a pretty good excuse how Hudson City can exist in the CU without any real supers getting near the place. He's potentially a one man WMD all by his lonesome, and the world conquering types don't want to risk getting unceremoniously executed by a sudden double-tap to the eyeballs.

 

It'd be bad for their rep, even if they somehow manage to come back from the dead

[Susano]

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns

 

Two thoughts.

 

Try to build a US Marine with full gear. See how many points it takes you (it was an interesting exercise for our gaming group for sure). We required them to pay points for all their equipment so that it could be compared to a supers campaign.

 

I want my normals to be able to threaten the heroes (and villains for that matter). Not be seriously dangerous necessarily but to make groups like the mafia and the police something not to be ignored unless in special circumstances. Sure, normal bullets bounce off your armor but if need be they can call SWAT or military or whip out their illegal arms shipment and at least make you think whether or not you want to risk some STUN damage from them for pissing them off right now.

 

I did some 21st Century soldier types for Digital Hero using the concepts behind the "Future Soldier" project. The characters were 200, 250, and 350 points. A local GM used them to fight his supers with the result the PCs made sure to target the "normal" troopers first. At 350, with full kit and gear, the "normal" 21st Century soldier was a super!