CyberHero Hacked

[Sean Waters]

So, I've got a fortnight to convert Shadowrun to Hero, write a scenario and be ready to run it. Great. Me and my big mouth.

 

I'm not too worried about the scenario, I've got half a side of scribbeld notes and a couple of cool sounding acronyms - I can wing the rest, but what's bothering me in Cyberspace. I've got 4th ed Cyber Hero, and I really am not keen on how cyberspace is accessed. I'm thinking of building a DNI as a simple detect:

 

10 points Direct Neural Interface: Detect Electronic User Interface (ELUSIN) 11- (Unusual Group), Discriminatory, Rapid: x10, Sense, Transmit (15 Active Points); Restrainable (Only by means other than Grabs and Entangles; EMP, ICE or physical removal; -1/4), IIF (-1/4)

 

That way you can access cyberspace without actually entering it as an avatar, but all that allows you to do is access and transmit information - to really do the hack thing you need to actually get in there and risk yourself a bit. i might do this as a simulated sense thing, but it requires several senses - not entirely sure how you do that. Anyway, I like the acronym: a DNI lets you 'see the illusion (ELUSIN). geddit?

 

I'm thinking of building the creation and insertion of an avatar into cyberspace as a duplication:

 

23 points Duplication (creates 200-point form), Altered Duplicates (100%; +1) (80 Active Points); Base Character is helpless while duplicate exists Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1), Requires Node Access Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1), Restrainable (Only by means other than Grabs and Entangles; EMP, ICE or Physical Removal; -1/4), Feedback (Only When Base Character Is Struck; -1/4)

 

At least that way different avatars cost different amounts: and there is a reason you always have the same one. I really don't like how CH does it. mind you, in many ways it makes more sense to build it as a multiform@

 

12 points Avatar Projection: Multiform (200 Character Points in the most expensive form) (40 Active Points); Leaves vulnerable body behind Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1), Requires Node Access Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1), Restrainable (Only by means other than Grabs and Entangles; EMP, ICE, Physical Removal; -1/4)

 

Has anyone sued these approaches, and what are your views? Multiform is quite a bit cheaper, and allows you to buy multiple avatars (to be used one at a time) more logically.

 

The other thing I'm not sure about is MEMORY. If I want to go steal some data, I suppose I don't need to bother too much: I can decide how much it weighs in cyberspace and I'll need an avatar that can carry it. Is there a better way?

 

Outside, though, once we get to the real wold, I run into a problem. Hero does memory recall with Eidetic Memory. Trouble is that relies on a skill roll, which doesn't work well for me - large amounts of data presumably come at a recall penalty but a computer will either have copied the information or not - it shouldn't be a matter of 'skill'. CH uses a custom stat for computers based on INT, but I was wondering if it might not work more smoothly (for this and other projects) if we has a new adder for Enhanced Senses: Record. Like Rapid, and other adders, it would come in discreet units and you buy as many as you want, so, for 2 points you get 1 turn of recording for the appropriate sense, and each +2 points lets you go one place up the time chart. If you have rapid sense x10 you could read a 2 minute piece of data in one turn, but you would need 6 points in record to be able to copy it.

 

This would mean that the DNI (above) could be built with record, and data could be defined as to how long it takes to read it.

 

Obviously a big programme or chunk of data is going to require a fast deck with a lot of recording memory to copy. That seems better than relying on Eidetic Memory, and seems to work well as an adder for senses; outside CH you could use it with enhanced hearing to record a conversation, for example.

 

Thoughts?

[jtelson]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

Eidetic Memory doesn't have an INT roll component in application even though it's built as +5 to INT rolls for recall (Strange but true). It's described as a way to functionally smuggle information so I think it's your girl when it comes to Data.

[gojira]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

Hmm, does 4th ed. Cyber Hero use EDM? That's the build I've seen in UNTIL Superpowers Database.

 

Don't forget to raid Killer Shrike's Metacyber site for ideas. Lots of stuff to help you get stuff done quickly if you need it.

 

Regarding memory: If you can access the data while you are holding it, then it's a VPP with an OIF or IIF lim. If not, then just hand wave it. It's swag and plot device, not a power. How many character points to own a car in a real-life game? None, right, it's ordinary equipment. But you can hold valuables in the car, just like you can hold loot in the memory stick. If the memory unit is hard to get for common folks, then owning one is a Perk.

[Sean Waters]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

Eidetic Memory doesn't have an INT roll component in application even though it's built as +5 to INT rolls for recall (Strange but true). It's described as a way to functionally smuggle information so I think it's your girl when it comes to Data.

 

There is no differentiation between a programme for a game of PONG or the source code for the Pentagon's security and surveillance programme. It would be nice to buy memory and know what it can hold: Eidetic memory is a handwave that makes certain assumptions, you could scale it a bit by requiring a higher (+INT roll) for more data, but it still handwaves the roll and seems difficult to assess in terms of what is needed.

[Sean Waters]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

Hmm, does 4th ed. Cyber Hero use EDM? That's the build I've seen in UNTIL Superpowers Database.

 

Don't forget to raid Killer Shrike's Metacyber site for ideas. Lots of stuff to help you get stuff done quickly if you need it.

 

Regarding memory: If you can access the data while you are holding it, then it's a VPP with an OIF or IIF lim. If not, then just hand wave it. It's swag and plot device, not a power. How many character points to own a car in a real-life game? None, right, it's ordinary equipment. But you can hold valuables in the car, just like you can hold loot in the memory stick. If the memory unit is hard to get for common folks, then owning one is a Perk.

 

 

EDM? I wish: Desolid and FTL, for goodness sakes! Even EDM doesn't work well for me though - even though I have used it in the past - it makes no difference how powerful an avatar you create - at least no cost difference. That is where duplication or multiform score, to my way of thinking.

 

I'll see if can have a look at KS's site - sounds interesting.

 

Thing about the memory is it might be quite important to this sort of game to know how much data you can carry. Johnnie Mnemonic, anyone? I quite like the idea of recording data as the time it would take to read it - it is a reasonably intuitive approach.

[gojira]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

EDM? I wish: Desolid and FTL' date=' for goodness sakes! Even EDM doesn't work well for me though - even though I have used it in the past - it makes no difference how powerful an avatar you create - at least no cost difference. That is where duplication or multiform score, to my way of thinking.[/quote']

 

Ok, I see where you are going with this. Just a quick thought off the top of my head-- to keep EDM, you buy a more powerful avatar with stuff bought with "Only in Cyberspace" lim, a custom limitation for your campaign. Probably it ought to be around -1 to -2. The cyberspace power in USPD has the lim that you do leave a meatbody behind when you go to cyberspace, btw.

 

I would probably buy lesser versions of Hacking as Clairsetience, with OIF and limits on what could be spied on (only data in a computer), along with Detect Data and speed reading. Like the Engineer in the back of VIPER.

 

I'll see if can have a look at KS's site - sounds interesting.

 

Here's the link:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/MetaCyber/MetaCyber.aspx

 

 

Thing about the memory is it might be quite important to this sort of game to know how much data you can carry. Johnnie Mnemonic, anyone? I quite like the idea of recording data as the time it would take to read it - it is a reasonably intuitive approach.

 

More memory = a higher Perk? A part of the package for the perk could just be "takes extra time" and you would be free as GM to set the time in ever increasing increments.

 

And it's been a while since I've read Johnny Mnemonic. I see to remember that the point was to get data locked into his head out before the bad guys got him. They did it, and made enough cash to live comfortably. But download speed, upload speed and amounts never came into it. The data was just *there*. But your campaign may not work like that.

[jtelson]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

There is no differentiation between a programme for a game of PONG or the source code for the Pentagon's security and surveillance programme. It would be nice to buy memory and know what it can hold: Eidetic memory is a handwave that makes certain assumptions' date=' you could scale it a bit by requiring a higher (+INT roll) for more data, but it still handwaves the roll and seems difficult to assess in terms of what is needed.[/quote']

 

Then just go with a new perk something like 1pt per 2 MP (Mega Pulses is Shadowrun I think) and then set your Data File Size accordingly.

[Sean Waters]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

Ok, I see where you are going with this. Just a quick thought off the top of my head-- to keep EDM, you buy a more powerful avatar with stuff bought with "Only in Cyberspace" lim, a custom limitation for your campaign. Probably it ought to be around -1 to -2. The cyberspace power in USPD has the lim that you do leave a meatbody behind when you go to cyberspace, btw.

 

I would probably buy lesser versions of Hacking as Clairsetience, with OIF and limits on what could be spied on (only data in a computer), along with Detect Data and speed reading. Like the Engineer in the back of VIPER.

 

'Only in Cyberspace' powers tend to make the character pretty useless for anything but cyberspace if they have to cough up CPs. I'll have a think on it though, and run it both ways- see how it turns out.

 

 

Here's the link:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/MetaCyber/MetaCyber.aspx

 

 

Just got back from there Unfortunately KS has dealt with the issue in a very different way through skill use - an avenue I'll also have to consider now

 

More memory = a higher Perk? A part of the package for the perk could just be "takes extra time" and you would be free as GM to set the time in ever increasing increments.

 

And it's been a while since I've read Johnny Mnemonic. I see to remember that the point was to get data locked into his head out before the bad guys got him. They did it, and made enough cash to live comfortably. But download speed, upload speed and amounts never came into it. The data was just *there*. But your campaign may not work like that.

 

Certainly in the film, the download exceeeded his memory parameters and was doing him harm. I can't recall now if that was a pure invention of the film, or something from the book too. Bit like pushing your memory

 

The perk idea could work, but I quite liked the idea of recording sensory impressions (and to the right sense, data is a sensory impression) for the general utility. At present it is surprisingly fiddly to build a tape recorder with a 1 hour tape in it. Record and playback adders could address that.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

Sean, have you ever looked at Damon_Dusk's conversion of Shadowrun to HERO 5E? It's very comprehensive and tries to retain the feel of the Shadowrun setting. Perhaps you could use some of it: http://www.starherofandom.com/h_shadowrun/index.php

 

For netrunning I've always favored the simplified, Skill-based system that Michael Surbrook used for his Kazei Five cyberpunk setting, because it minimizes the time that non-netrunners have to stand around waiting while their jacked-in comrades do their thing. Michael outlined his system here: http://surbrook.devermore.net/worldbooks/kazei5/k5netrunning.html

[gojira]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

'Only in Cyberspace' powers tend to make the character pretty useless for anything but cyberspace if they have to cough up CPs.

 

One way to deal with this would be to add a rule like "You can't take it with you." All stats and powers are useless in Cyberspace, except for maybe a few like Ego and Int. This could work like NCM in Heroic games, it's a 0 point lim that all characters have.

 

All deckers are required to buy at least some stats through their decks (OAF), or as headware (IIF). These are the stats they'll use use in cyberspace. So they end up with a second sheet that represents themselves in Cyberspace. But by now I guess I'm getting closer to just a slightly more expensive version of Multiform.

 

I guess another idea would be to also allow stats and powers to be bought as "Also in Cyberspace" at about +1/2 or so. So if a Decker buys +2 Speed with "Also in Cyberspace" then he's fast both in and out of Cyberspace. But if the +2 Speed is bought as "Only in Cyberspace" then you've saved some points, at the cost of being rather weaker in the real world. Player choice and all that.

 

I think where I'm going is, how important is Cyberspace? Multiform seems like a lot of work for players and the GM, and also costs only 1/5 as much, points for points. This seems a little unbalancing, unless you intend to give the players only a few limited choices to pick from for their Multiform. It may come down to how much do you want to charge deckers for their abilities. That 1/5 discount could be a big savings for deckers, which may or may not what you want.

[GamePhil]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

What I've thought of doing for Memory is to simply replace STR with INT and mass with size of program/data/whatever, and if you have enough INT you simply pick up the "object" and carry it with you. I would have assumed using this that having an Avatar with the appropriate INT would include all the data transfer rates and such to allow the data to be "lifted" instantly.

 

However, if you have barely enough INT to carry it, you would do the equivalent of "lift it, stagger a few steps, and drop it", so you wouldn't be able to move it very far quickly.

 

Or something like that.

[Sean Waters]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

Sean' date=' have you ever looked at Damon_Dusk's conversion of [i']Shadowrun[/i] to HERO 5E? It's very comprehensive and tries to retain the feel of the Shadowrun setting. Perhaps you could use some of it: http://www.starherofandom.com/h_shadowrun/index.php

 

For netrunning I've always favored the simplified, Skill-based system that Michael Surbrook used for his Kazei Five cyberpunk setting, because it minimizes the time that non-netrunners have to stand around waiting while their jacked-in comrades do their thing. Michael outlined his system here: http://surbrook.devermore.net/worldbooks/kazei5/k5netrunning.html

 

Wow - that is some piece of work!

 

I quite like the skill approach but the people I'm playing with seem to want to take the more traditional route, so who am I to argue?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

Sean, if your were to use the EDM approach to netrunning, perhaps you could use the Increase Weight Adder as a measure of how much data your character could download and store? The basic "weight" would be equivalent to a certain amount of data, which could be doubled using the Adder.

 

To carry the analogy further, the additional location Adders for EDM could be the basis for both movement within a system, and the ability to hack into protected areas. Basic EDM would allow access to one virtual "node", e.g. a given terminal or mainframe, or the lowest-priority level of data. +5 could allow the hacker to travel to any neighboring connected system, and/or to access protected data. For +10 points the character can travel anywhere within the net and access high-security data.

 

Thus the additional cost of the Adders reflect the increasing power of the netrunner's avatar.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

Cyber Hero Resources

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59182

 

Damn, you could try this too.

 

QM

[FireTiger]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

If you've got the old Cyber Hero, have you consdired using the expanded computer rules from there?

 

(That book added Memory, Storage, and Ports to the basic INT, DEX, and SPD computer characteristics.)

[Sean Waters]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

If you've got the old Cyber Hero, have you consdired using the expanded computer rules from there?

 

(That book added Memory, Storage, and Ports to the basic INT, DEX, and SPD computer characteristics.)

 

I do and I have but I was looking for a more generic approach to data storage.

 

Maybe I'm looking too hard

[Killer Shrike]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

I do and I have but I was looking for a more generic approach to data storage.

 

Maybe I'm looking too hard

 

 

Skill Chips

 

 

specifically:

 

MEMORY CHIP

A Chip Reader can also take a Memory Chip, which allows the storage and transferal of data, similar to a data disk. An example of a Memory Chip is provided below.

 

MEMORY CHIP:

Memory Chip: Eidetic Memory (5 Active Points); Data / Facts Only (-1/2), IIF Fragile (-1/2); ~10,000 credits

 

 

 

 

Something you should consider is the reason that storage capacity was given so much play in the original cyberpunk books is because back then storage was a big deal. We didnt have good ways to store data, moving data on and off storage devices was slow and tedious, and also it was something that people that werent really very technical could identify with because its semi-physical. Writers of the time often assumed that this same basic paradigm would continue.

 

However, there have been vast advances in this area and it hasnt been an issue in years. Storage is cheap, plentiful, and fast. It is so rarely an issue that its just not that meaningful of a thing to bother to restrict much. I mean, I carry a 4 GB flash card on my key ring (and thats just a middling flash drive at that). From the perspective of a "scifi" founded in the early 80's that's almost incomprehensible.

[GamePhil]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

However, there have been vast advances in this area and it hasnt been an issue in years. Storage is cheap, plentiful, and fast. It is so rarely an issue that its just not that meaningful of a thing to bother to restrict much. I mean, I carry a 4 GB flash card on my key ring (and thats just a middling flash drive at that). From the perspective of a "scifi" founded in the early 80's that's almost incomprehensible.

 

Sure, but there are possible complicating factors that may make the style of the 80's still make sense. For instance, your avatar is accessing a remote system, so you may not have the transfer rate you would with a local system. In that case, your avatar's STR (or whatever) could be based on how good its tweaked out compression algorithms are, even though back home you have effectively unlimited storage.

 

The other potential snag is that the data may grow to encompass all the space you have. For example, we still don't have an accurate idea of how much data the human brain can hold: the estimates keep increasing as we get a system that matches the old estimates. In a science fiction universe, you may be trying to steal something that approaches our own complexity with a storage device barely able to contain it.

 

Of course, if all you're trying to transfer is something so paltry as the Library of Congress, you may very well walk off with a device the size of a tie clip.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

Sure, but there are possible complicating factors that may make the style of the 80's still make sense. For instance, your avatar is accessing a remote system, so you may not have the transfer rate you would with a local system. In that case, your avatar's STR (or whatever) could be based on how good its tweaked out compression algorithms are, even though back home you have effectively unlimited storage.

 

The other potential snag is that the data may grow to encompass all the space you have. For example, we still don't have an accurate idea of how much data the human brain can hold: the estimates keep increasing as we get a system that matches the old estimates. In a science fiction universe, you may be trying to steal something that approaches our own complexity with a storage device barely able to contain it.

 

Of course, if all you're trying to transfer is something so paltry as the Library of Congress, you may very well walk off with a device the size of a tie clip.

 

{shrugs} Suit yourself.

[GamePhil]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

feh

[StGrimblefig]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

So, I've got a fortnight to convert Shadowrun to Hero, write a scenario and be ready to run it. Great. Me and my big mouth.

 

I'm not too worried about the scenario, I've got half a side of scribbeld notes and a couple of cool sounding acronyms - I can wing the rest, but what's bothering me in Cyberspace. I've got 4th ed Cyber Hero, and I really am not keen on how cyberspace is accessed. I'm thinking of building a DNI as a simple detect:

Okay, after a quick scan of the posts, I still have a question: which version of Shadowrun are you trying to convert? Third edition and earlier use the older-style "Neuromancer" version of cyberspace, in which the decker must replace his normal senses with the view of cyberspace. This is great for stories and movies, but doesn't work as well for roleplaying games. Fourth edition changed to a more "Ghost In The Shell" version, which is wireless, and allows anyone with a cybercom and cybereyes (or a pair of special glasses) to have almost constant access via visual overlays. The full-immersion access is still available, and has its advantages, but is less useful to the average person.

 

Second, regarding Cyber Hero: Put the book down. Step away from the book. Now, if you don't already have it, go get the Kazei Five PDF from the Hero Online Store. It is much better, and covers several options for accessing and hacking whatever kind of cyberspace you want to use.

 

10 points Direct Neural Interface: Detect Electronic User Interface (ELUSIN) 11- (Unusual Group), Discriminatory, Rapid: x10, Sense, Transmit (15 Active Points); Restrainable (Only by means other than Grabs and Entangles; EMP, ICE or physical removal; -1/4), IIF (-1/4)

 

That way you can access cyberspace without actually entering it as an avatar, but all that allows you to do is access and transmit information - to really do the hack thing you need to actually get in there and risk yourself a bit. i might do this as a simulated sense thing, but it requires several senses - not entirely sure how you do that. Anyway, I like the acronym: a DNI lets you 'see the illusion (ELUSIN). geddit?

If it is a wireless interface (as I think the IIF implies -- wouldn't a cable connection make it obvious?) then I would think that some limitation dealing with strong EM fields or other interference would be appropriate -- oh, wait; that's what the restrainable limitation is for, cool. I hadn't thought of doing it that way before.

 

I tend to prefer to think of the DNI as similar to the clairsentience version of astral projection presented in the old Mystic Masters suppliment (and also in TUMystic). That is because I see the ultimate effect of all of the hardware is to allow the user to see things on computer systems far away.

 

I'm thinking of building the creation and insertion of an avatar into cyberspace as a duplication:

 

23 points Duplication (creates 200-point form), Altered Duplicates (100%; +1) (80 Active Points); Base Character is helpless while duplicate exists Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1), Requires Node Access Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1), Restrainable (Only by means other than Grabs and Entangles; EMP, ICE or Physical Removal; -1/4), Feedback (Only When Base Character Is Struck; -1/4)

 

At least that way different avatars cost different amounts: and there is a reason you always have the same one. I really don't like how CH does it. mind you, in many ways it makes more sense to build it as a multiform@

 

12 points Avatar Projection: Multiform (200 Character Points in the most expensive form) (40 Active Points); Leaves vulnerable body behind Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1), Requires Node Access Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1), Restrainable (Only by means other than Grabs and Entangles; EMP, ICE, Physical Removal; -1/4)

 

Has anyone sued these approaches, and what are your views? Multiform is quite a bit cheaper, and allows you to buy multiple avatars (to be used one at a time) more logically.

The only problem I see with this is that it assumes that you have to buy a power to have a visible representation of yourself in cyberspace. That implies that you can access the net without having said representation if you do not pay those points.

 

I have always seen the "avatar" as merely a visual representation of the processes (i.e. programs) that the user is running on that system. A very basic access to the system runs only a basic shell, with a default avatar. A more privileged user of the system (or a hacked account with forged privileges) can define their avatar to look however they want -- but the visual representation itself does not necessarily imply capability. Just because you look like a dragon on that Chinese server does not give you any dragon abilities. You would have to write/buy/otherwise obtain a program to do that -- with an appropriately customized animation.

 

It makes sense to me to define a set of "everyman avatars" and "default visualizations" for programs, so that if a user does not customize them, they know what they/their programs will look like. Just like you said, the DNI allows you to see the illusion -- but never forget that it is just an illusion.

 

The other thing I'm not sure about is MEMORY. If I want to go steal some data, I suppose I don't need to bother too much: I can decide how much it weighs in cyberspace and I'll need an avatar that can carry it. Is there a better way?

 

Outside, though, once we get to the real wold, I run into a problem. Hero does memory recall with Eidetic Memory. Trouble is that relies on a skill roll, which doesn't work well for me - large amounts of data presumably come at a recall penalty but a computer will either have copied the information or not - it shouldn't be a matter of 'skill'. CH uses a custom stat for computers based on INT, but I was wondering if it might not work more smoothly (for this and other projects) if we has a new adder for Enhanced Senses: Record. Like Rapid, and other adders, it would come in discreet units and you buy as many as you want, so, for 2 points you get 1 turn of recording for the appropriate sense, and each +2 points lets you go one place up the time chart. If you have rapid sense x10 you could read a 2 minute piece of data in one turn, but you would need 6 points in record to be able to copy it.

 

This would mean that the DNI (above) could be built with record, and data could be defined as to how long it takes to read it.

 

Obviously a big programme or chunk of data is going to require a fast deck with a lot of recording memory to copy. That seems better than relying on Eidetic Memory, and seems to work well as an adder for senses; outside CH you could use it with enhanced hearing to record a conversation, for example.

 

Thoughts?

In my opinion, memory would be a limiting factor in how many (and how complex) programs you can run on your own deck, whereas storage would limit how much data and/or programs you can carry in that deck. Memory doesn't really limit throughput in our world, so I cannot see how it would in Shadowrun. Both memory and storage are cheap right now, but you can also watch the available programs and data getting larger to take advantage of that extra capability. Text-only gave way to text with pictures, gave way to text with pictures and sound, gave way to video, and on, and on.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

Uhm' date=' oookay, sorry for offering alternate suggestions. I'll just bow out.[/quote']

 

Why? I'm not ignoring or getting down on your perspective, I just don't care to discuss / argue it. If that works for you and you like the idea of a Gibson-eque cyberspace then go for it; it just doesn't interest me personally.

[GamePhil]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

Very well, my apologies. "[shrug] Suit yourself" sounded dismissive, especially since all I'm doing is throwing out ideas for the original poster, not you or myself, and seeing what sticks. I don't care for Cyberpunk in any form I've seen it, myself, but am striving to be helpful. I was grumpy and sleepy, however.

[Sean Waters]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

Okay' date=' after a quick scan of the posts, I still have a question: which version of Shadowrun are you trying to convert? Third edition and earlier use the older-style "Neuromancer" version of cyberspace, in which the decker must replace his normal senses with the view of cyberspace. This is great for stories and movies, but doesn't work as well for roleplaying games. Fourth edition changed to a more "Ghost In The Shell" version, which is wireless, and allows anyone with a cybercom and cybereyes (or a pair of special glasses) to have almost constant access via visual overlays. The full-immersion access is still available, and has its advantages, but is less useful to the average person.[/quote']

 

Well, sort of first edition (the only copy of Shadowrun I have) but I was going to differentiate access: the ELUSIN allows you to interact with cyberspace but not really to use it tot he full capacity. A full immersion avatar gives you a lot more control and immediate power, but at the price of greater risk. Not desperately realistic, but it plays nicely. After all this noone has chosen to be a hacker, but it is nice to have a handle on how it works.

 

Second' date=' regarding Cyber Hero: Put the book down. Step away from the book. Now, if you don't already have it, go get the Kazei Five PDF from the Hero Online Store. It is much better, and covers several options for accessing and hacking whatever kind of cyberspace you want to use.[/quote']

 

I hear you.

 

 

If it is a wireless interface (as I think the IIF implies -- wouldn't a cable connection make it obvious?) then I would think that some limitation dealing with strong EM fields or other interference would be appropriate -- oh, wait; that's what the restrainable limitation is for, cool. I hadn't thought of doing it that way before.

 

I tend to prefer to think of the DNI as similar to the clairsentience version of astral projection presented in the old Mystic Masters suppliment (and also in TUMystic). That is because I see the ultimate effect of all of the hardware is to allow the user to see things on computer systems far away.

 

You can interface wirelessly but it is often easier to disrupt a connection that is wireless than through a shielded cable, so wireless is used for casual access and a cable is usually used for avatar projection.

 

 

The only problem I see with this is that it assumes that you have to buy a power to have a visible representation of yourself in cyberspace. That implies that you can access the net without having said representation if you do not pay those points.

 

I have always seen the "avatar" as merely a visual representation of the processes (i.e. programs) that the user is running on that system. A very basic access to the system runs only a basic shell, with a default avatar. A more privileged user of the system (or a hacked account with forged privileges) can define their avatar to look however they want -- but the visual representation itself does not necessarily imply capability. Just because you look like a dragon on that Chinese server does not give you any dragon abilities. You would have to write/buy/otherwise obtain a program to do that -- with an appropriately customized animation.

 

I see the avatar as the sum of the programs and parts of programs you take with you, given a visual interface; more cinematic than necessary, but it help with game play. A more powerful avatar is simply a better written set of intrusion software, which costs more, which is reflected by being able to multiform into a bigger, better avatar.

 

It makes sense to me to define a set of "everyman avatars" and "default visualizations" for programs' date=' so that if a user does not customize them, they know what they/their programs will look like. Just like you said, the DNI allows you to see the illusion -- but never forget that it is just an illusion.[/quote']

 

I'd planned to have public access terminals and even game machines that allowed avatar access, but the avatars are not powerful enough for most netrunning purposes - but it is easy enough for anyone witht he right hardware to egt into cyberspace.

 

 

In my opinion' date=' memory would be a limiting factor in how many (and how complex) programs you can run on your own deck, whereas storage would limit how much data and/or programs you can carry in that deck. Memory doesn't really limit throughput in our world, so I cannot see how it would in Shadowrun. Both memory and storage are cheap right now, but you can also watch the available programs and data getting larger to take advantage of that extra capability. Text-only gave way to text with pictures, gave way to text with pictures and sound, gave way to video, and on, and on.[/quote']

 

Tell me about it. When I bought my computer I thought: 160 gig? hell, I'll NEVER fill 160 gig...turns out never comes sooner than expected...

[GamePhil]

Re: CyberHero Hacked

 

Tell me about it. When I bought my computer I thought: 160 gig? hell' date=' I'll NEVER fill 160 gig...turns out never comes sooner than expected...[/quote']

 

When I bought my very first computer, the hard drive I had ordered wasn't available, so they doubled the space. It went from 20MB to 40! I thought much the same as you with 160 GB. How times change.