City of Heroes

[pawsplay]

I've been musing about a CoH conversion for Hero. I did a little searching and found some thought-provoking threads like this one:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=776988#post776988

 

but not much in the way of a full conversion (and the vaporware CoH pen and paper game probably dimmed enthusiasm, too). I was noticing that one way that CoH is more like the comics than most superhero RPGs is the sheer amount of resources heroes have. Right off the bat, they have police powers combined with state of emergency peacekeeping powers and a high government security clearance. Every PC has at least one organization contact at a decent level, and any scientific or mystical hero has nearly unlimited access to labs, libraries, and experts. Then there's the hospital system; every new superhero, still wet behind the ears, gets a tracker and life signs monitor with a built in teleporter and unlimited use of a superscience recuperation facility (all OIF, and Difficult to Dispel as well). Finally, they have organization contacts with the city government and the Freedom Phalanx.

 

I agree with the holistic conversion idea. The idea of converting every power literally is just not going to work. In the long run, most Invulnerability tanks in Hero terms are built with high resistant defenses, some exotic defenses, and good stats, for instance. Modeling something like Unyielding in mechanical terms is more trouble than its worth. On the other hand, some abilities are worth trying to convert faithfully. Flaming swords, fast regeneration, and the like.

 

Also, some traits seem to be common to heroes in general. For instance, most heroes can be assumed to have Breakfall, Acrobatics, Computer Operation, and Stealth, the way they are played, so any character who is not conceptually weak in those areas should have those abilities. Also, most characters have a strong left hook, so anyone who isn't super strong or a martial artist probably warrants a +1d6 HA due to their hand to hand training. Given their ability to withstand gunfire, bulletproof spandex seems to be the norm.

 

Inspirations could be dull or painful to try to mimic exactly. Conceptually, though, hey, there's something there. A few as signature abilities or used in a general way could spice things up. One thing about HERO is that you are kind of subject to the dice; Inspirations, built as boosts in ability, probably with Charges, could help heroes do those seat-of-the-pants acts of heroism.

[JmOz]

Re: City of Heroes

 

I've been musing about a CoH conversion for Hero. I did a little searching and found some thought-provoking threads like this one:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=776988#post776988

 

but not much in the way of a full conversion (and the vaporware CoH pen and paper game probably dimmed enthusiasm, too). I was noticing that one way that CoH is more like the comics than most superhero RPGs is the sheer amount of resources heroes have. Right off the bat, they have police powers combined with state of emergency peacekeeping powers and a high government security clearance. Every PC has at least one organization contact at a decent level, and any scientific or mystical hero has nearly unlimited access to labs, libraries, and experts. Then there's the hospital system; every new superhero, still wet behind the ears, gets a tracker and life signs monitor with a built in teleporter and unlimited use of a superscience recuperation facility (all OIF, and Difficult to Dispel as well). Finally, they have organization contacts with the city government and the Freedom Phalanx.

 

I agree with the holistic conversion idea. The idea of converting every power literally is just not going to work. In the long run, most Invulnerability tanks in Hero terms are built with high resistant defenses, some exotic defenses, and good stats, for instance. Modeling something like Unyielding in mechanical terms is more trouble than its worth. On the other hand, some abilities are worth trying to convert faithfully. Flaming swords, fast regeneration, and the like.

 

Also, some traits seem to be common to heroes in general. For instance, most heroes can be assumed to have Breakfall, Acrobatics, Computer Operation, and Stealth, the way they are played, so any character who is not conceptually weak in those areas should have those abilities. Also, most characters have a strong left hook, so anyone who isn't super strong or a martial artist probably warrants a +1d6 HA due to their hand to hand training. Given their ability to withstand gunfire, bulletproof spandex seems to be the norm.

 

Inspirations could be dull or painful to try to mimic exactly. Conceptually, though, hey, there's something there. A few as signature abilities or used in a general way could spice things up. One thing about HERO is that you are kind of subject to the dice; Inspirations, built as boosts in ability, probably with Charges, could help heroes do those seat-of-the-pants acts of heroism.

 

 

Personaly I think that it would be a mistake to try to convert either archtypes or powersets over. What would be better (all IMO) is to convert some of the most common Villain groups over, a few heroic package deals. A perk system for the Security levels (I would actualy say 1 point per 5 or 10 security levels is about right IMO, probably if I was running I would go with 10), and some gear (The teleporters for instance)

 

HEro's greatest strength is it's flexability, CoH's is probably (in regards to the PnP crowd) a fun world, play off strengths, not weaknesses

[pawsplay]

Re: City of Heroes

 

I wasn't suggesting a wholesale conversion of archetypes/powers. Was that not clear?

 

You can however say things like, "Tanks converted to HERO should have at least 15 PRE to mimic the effects of Gauntlet, more if they use Taunt."

 

Or, "Here is a way to build Lightning Field, if you wish to represent that power specifically."

[gojira]

Re: City of Heroes

 

Well, I personally would convert the powers over on an individual basis. Players who are familiar with CoH are going to want to see the breakdown. And even those who aren't will like to see a list of cool things like Unyeilding and Fireball on their character sheets. This is not much different than buying Armor in the Hero System once as Combat Luck, and again as an OIF.

 

I think having a summary on the character sheet, where the character's total's are added up, would be a good thing, just because it's going to get old trying to find everything on the character sheet each time you need it.

 

I'd also keep the archetypes to an extent, especially as they relate to Hero vs Villain archetypes. This might work out to a set of specialized campaign limits for each AT.

 

You can of course do as you like in your own campaigns....

[Dynamo]

Re: City of Heroes

 

Some Thoughts On Making Hero Taste More Like CoH

 

Take the CoH Archetypes and write them up like the Archetypes from Champions. Bricks are recast as Tanks or Scrappers; Energy Projectors and Egoists are split into Blasters, Defenders, and Controllers; Martial Artists become Scrappers. Encourage or mandate lower defenses on "squishies" perhaps by giving each Archetype its own sets of Caps.

 

Do similarly with Origins from CoH, but maybe take it a step further and make them actually count for something in game, like making powers that work only on Mutants or don't work at all against Naturals.

 

Instead of trying to convert Power Sets, encourage their like by applying Elemental Control liberally. Make sure the players know they're getting a discount for anything that stays in the theme.

 

Defender Power Sets will be a little challenging since Adjustment Powers are pretty spendy when applied AoE at range and are a pain in the tuchas to apply on the fly. Controller Power Sets are tougher still, since Hero doesn't do Status Effects much. It might be worth porting over rules from GURPS or d20, which both do something very similar to Status Effects.

 

Opposition should be concentrated in agent-class foes (minions) with a scattering of low-powered supers or elite agents (lieutenants), fewer really tough opponents (bosses), and a serious threat at the center of the action (elite bosses and archvillains). In the early parts of a scenario, keep fights short, mainly punctuation to information gathering and roleplaying. I find this goes against the grain in many Hero game groups, where any fight must be a serious challenge and takes most of the evening.

 

While there are game-mechanical possibilities to Enhancements and Salvage, I think your best bang for your buck will be found in working into the campaign and scenario backgrounds the bits you find by reading the Info text on these items. Write up the manufacturers of the Technology Enhancements; replace Champions Universe questonite with impervium (remember it also inhibits psi); work out some technobabble concerning the Science Enhancements; send your PCs chasing after a Volume of the Obsidian Libram.

[garou]

Re: City of Heroes

 

Controller Power Sets are tougher still, since Hero doesn't do Status Effects much. It might be worth porting over rules from GURPS or d20, which both do something very similar to Status Effects.

 

Actually, you can model low-level CoH 'trollers like this:

 

Normal characteristic maximum

EB, 1 pip, penetrating, X2 END (Oh heck, give 'em a whopping 1/2 d6 if you like. Or make it a full d6 EB, NND if you really need to.)

 

 

('Trollers are a lot like mages in certain other games - dead meat at low-levels, but you hit a certain point, and they get very, very powerful indeed.)

[pawsplay]

Re: City of Heroes

 

So how should the MedNet bracelets be built? Teleporting items, with a trigger for the Hospital detecting low life signs? If so, the Hospital itself is a powerful base with a lot of detecting going on. Should the PCs chip in some arbitrary amount toward the base, or is it better to price this as a Perk? If the bracelet already has the teleporting and the Trigger, then I think "Hospital privileges" should be fairly cheap Perk.

[gojira]

Re: City of Heroes

 

Yeah, if it's an ability that everyone has, then really it's not worth costing out carefully. A perk would cover it nicely.

[death tribble]

Re: City of Heroes

 

In which case I want to see the following converted

 

Celtic Bolt

Feral Kat

Ghost Widow

Invincibelle

Lord Recluse

Rowr

Warface

 

And when I can get at my JPEGs I will work out the others I would want to see.

[Tom Carman]

Re: City of Heroes

 

Inspirations could be dull or painful to try to mimic exactly. Conceptually' date=' though, hey, there's something there. A few as signature abilities or used in a general way could spice things up. One thing about HERO is that you are kind of subject to the dice; Inspirations, built as boosts in ability, probably with Charges, could help heroes do those seat-of-the-pants acts of heroism.[/quote']

 

The Inspirations would seem to be dead-easy to me: almost all of them are Aids, and a few are Heals. Breakfrees are hard to categorize. All of them are single-charge, and the adjustments are all-or-nothing without a gradual fade, with capped effects. Aids - Yellow: OCV; Purple: DCV; Orange: Armor; Red: Damage Classes. Heals - Green: Stun (+ Body?); Blue: END; Awaken: triggered massive Stun Heal up from GM's Option.

 

When an enemy goes down, the GM would a die, and everyone gets an Inspiration on a '6'. Roll a couple more to decide which one everyone gets. Make the 'decider' die a different color, and roll all three at once. Players can trade the Isp chits, but their Security Level Perk determines the max they can have at any time.

[gojira]

Re: City of Heroes

 

The first thing you'd have to do for NPCs like Ghost Widow is establish what their powers are in CoH. I don't think any spoiler site has a complete and correct list. GW has an unresistible hold, for example. There was just a go-round on the COH boards about this and how it was unfair to certain classes.

 

For Inspirations, Aids are a good idea. I would have gone with Combat Luck, with special rules that duplicate the effects of Inspirations. There are already special rules in the book that come pretty close to a couple of the Inspirations in CoH. All you'd have to do is add some more.

[nexus]

Re: City of Heroes

 

re: Inspirations

 

I think taking the Hero Point system from Pulp Hero could work to simulate them, maybe adding a few additional ways to spend them (free recoveries, for instance). They, IMO, would work better as a metagame construct (like Classic MSHRPG's Karma points) instead of something IC.

[Great Beyond]

Re: City of Heroes

 

The problem is that the two systems are completely different - so for our CoH game, we pertty much go for the overall feel of the character, instead of trying to accuratly model Unstoppable, Taunt, Blizzard and so on. It may not be completely accurate, but it works well enough for us.

[Sketchpad]

Re: City of Heroes

 

I've toyed with building the setting in the past ... I think archetypes could go either way (package or no), though I'd be tempted to make an origin package for each origin (including benefits and disads), as well as power builds (mainly as examples).

I also agree that the high point of such a setting are the NPCs within the MMORPG. Having a write-up for Recluse and his cronies would be really neat, as would the hierarchy of gangs and such. That's really the icing on the cake IMHO. Why CoH didn't get made as a multi-system book is beyond me.

[Sketchpad]

Re: City of Heroes

 

The first thing you'd have to do for NPCs like Ghost Widow is establish what their powers are in CoH. I don't think any spoiler site has a complete and correct list. GW has an unresistible hold' date=' for example. There was just a go-round on the COH boards about this and how it was unfair to certain classes.[/quote']

 

That's why I haven't tried to do any as a write-up. I have yet to find a comprehensive list of characters' abilities ...

[Alverant]

Re: City of Heroes

 

The problem is that the two systems are completely different - so for our CoH game' date=' we pertty much go for the overall feel of the character, instead of trying to accuratly model Unstoppable, Taunt, Blizzard and so on. It may not be completely accurate, but it works well enough for us.[/quote']

 

I agree. Take the setting and the character personalities but don't try a direct port of powers and systems. Some of the CoX powers would cost hundreds of Active Points (specifically I'm thinking of TP Foe but I'm sure there are others). Because it's a computer game, CoX does certain things that a pen and paper game doesn't like having different war walls, levels, random crime, inspiration/enhancements, attack rate, underling/minion/lieutenant/boss/elite boss/archvillain/monster/giant monster system, just to name a few.

 

If I ran a CoH game I would make it clear I'm only using the setting and characters and avoid the actual mechanics of the game except for maybe using a changed Pulp Hero Action Points system (1 HAP = +5 STUN or +10 END).