Interceptor

[Sean Waters]

So, I was thinking, what if you could build a power that intercepted another's incoming attack? Well, you can Sean, it is called 'Missile Deflection'. Yes, BUT...MD doesn't work against quite a few attacks, including, importantly, most AoE attacks.

 

What I'm thinking of is a power that, in effect, puts something in the way of an incoming attck so the effects take place at a point other than the target hex.

 

Am I making sense?

 

I have a couple of ideas but I'm not happy with them , so what do you think? How do I make Master Blaster's not-normally-deflectable AoE attack go off next to him, rather than next to me?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Interceptor

 

I have a couple of ideas but I'm not happy with them ' date=' so what do you think? How do I make Master Blaster's not-normally-deflectable AoE attack go off next to him, rather than next to me?[/quote']

 

You are essentially talking about Missile Deflection but want to expand its capabilities dont you. I think that if you are not going to go along the route of expanding MD and making it cost more then the ideal method is going to be SFX dependent. Different ways of doing this would depend on how you envisage the pwoer working.

 

So. You want a modified MD which makes this a generic power in the book that has to have SFX added for gameplay or do you want a variety of ways that would be SFX dependent - a teleport character might use a very different mix of powers to achieve this than a telekinetic or energy blaster I think.

 

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

Re: Interceptor

 

I hadn't thought of that approach

 

I was working on either some sort of mind control, or illusion, making the attacker aim at somewhere other than where they thought they were OR an IPE force wall, so that the attack hits something before it reaches the target and goes off.

 

Actually a 1/1 IPE force wall used to englobe a blaster (without their knowledge) sounds like a horribly effective tactic - for some reason all their attacks go off right in front of them...

[Alibear]

Re: Interceptor

 

Can you not just build it as a big force wall to hide behind when attacked?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Interceptor

 

I was working on either some sort of mind control, or illusion, making the attacker aim at somewhere other than where they thought they were OR an IPE force wall, so that the attack hits something before it reaches the target and goes off.

 

As I said, there might be any number of power constructs (and neither of these were foremost in my mind) that particular characters would use.

 

What would you like the game to include? An extension to missile deflect or a quick discussion on what is possible using other powers?

 

 

Stephen

[Sean Waters]

Re: Interceptor

 

Can you not just build it as a big force wall to hide behind when attacked?

 

You can, but the point is to control where the AoE goes off - if you make it near the attacker it does not have to be big or expensive, and he gets caught int he blast

[Sean Waters]

Re: Interceptor

 

As I said, there might be any number of power constructs (and neither of these were foremost in my mind) that particular characters would use.

 

What would you like the game to include? An extension to missile deflect or a quick discussion on what is possible using other powers?

 

 

Stephen

 

You know me, mate - whatever is going to be most convoluted and complex

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Interceptor

 

You know me' date=' mate - whatever is going to be most convoluted and complex [/quote']

 

I didn't want to say that!

[Alibear]

Re: Interceptor

 

You can' date=' but the point is to control where the AoE goes off - if you make it near the attacker it does not have to be big or expensive, and he gets caught int he blast [/quote']

 

 

Okay, so you put the FWall up next to him?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Interceptor

 

Okay' date=' so you put the FWall up next to him?[/quote']

 

Well, exactly: the advantage of englobing is just that you don;t have to morry about him changing target

 

The build I was originally working with was astraightforward FW, IPE, but now I'm thinking something like this:

 

Force Wall (1 PD/1 ED/1 Mental Defense/1 Power Defense/1 Flash Defense: Sight Group/1 Flash Defense: Hearing Group), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1) (52 Active Points); Instant (-1/2), Requires A Block roll Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests, No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll; -1/4)

 

52 Active points, 30 Real points

 

It wouldn't even need to be invisible really, which would reduuce the cost further.

 

Now what I'm wondering is the effect of an attack hitting a barrier. I assume that an AoE would be triggered at the point of contact, but a normal energy blast would that continue, with a damage penalty of -1, to the target - to make it an entirely consistent power, and to stop all incoming ranged attacks, build a straightforward Missile Deflection, and change the trigger to 'when missile deflecting', and the RSR to 'successful MD roll'. That seems like a system compatable way to build a MD v AoE attacks, but I may be overlooking something obvious.

 

The bigegst question is whether the AoE goes off on contact with the FW. I can't imagine any other result - to damage a FW, the AoE has to trigger, doesn't it?

[Alibear]

Re: Interceptor

 

Eh? Those beers at lunchtime wern't a good idea. So this forcewall is only 1 def? It ain't gonna stop much. What am I missing?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Interceptor

 

Eh? Those beers at lunchtime wern't a good idea. So this forcewall is only 1 def? It ain't gonna stop much. What am I missing?

 

Pretty useless against normal attacks that work by actually hitting you - EBs, RKAs etc. HOWEVER, the way I have it figured is this: to get through the FW, an attack with an AoE (which a Missile Deflection is useless against), the AoE has to go off, and if it is going off OVER THERE it is not going off over here. Sure the FW goes down, but its only purpose was to intercept the AoE anyway - the level of defence is pretty much irrelevant.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Interceptor

 

What I'm thinking is this: if you have an 8d6 EB Explosion attack power, and it hist a 1/1 FW, then to get throught he FW it has to damage it, so the exlposion has to go off, and once it has gone off, there is nothing to continue to the original target hex with. Maybe that is not how it works, but I can't see another logical way for the process to occur, nor any guidance as such under FW in 5ER. It makes it clear that an attack that breaches a FW can continue to the original target, but I simply can't see how that can apply to AoE attacks.

[Alibear]

Re: Interceptor

 

So lets look at sfx and common sense...

 

Bloke A lobs a grenade at you.

The grenade hits the wall and goes off. the 1pd wall is pierced and 7 body is incoming at you.

 

Lets hope you are outside the blast radius and let's hope Bloke A has personal immunity.

 

 

Are we both seeing the same thing? What if he has an AA atatck with a hex hole in the middle?

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Interceptor

 

Get Missile Reflection and make up some kind of adder or advantage called "Yes I can!" that lets you deflect/reflect the sort of stuff you want to. Make your reflection roll, then target the hex you want it to go off in. The SFX is that it 'really' gets intercepted along the way.

 

Something like:

 

"Yes I can!" - Deflection/Reflection can target AE/Explosion attacks normally immune based on SFX. +20

 

Interceptor - reflected attacks must be reflected along original attack path. -1 limit on the Reflection part of MD.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Interceptor

 

So lets look at sfx and common sense...

 

Bloke A lobs a grenade at you.

The grenade hits the wall and goes off. the 1pd wall is pierced and 7 body is incoming at you.

 

Lets hope you are outside the blast radius and let's hope Bloke A has personal immunity.

 

That is how I see it - the grenade, or whatever 'goes off' at the FW, destroying it and extending to its normal area of effect

 

No idea if that is the right approach, but it is the only one I can think of that makes sense!

 

 

Are we both seeing the same thing? What if he has an AA attack with a hex hole in the middle?

 

Hole in the middle. Hmm. I imagine it still goes off at the boundary, but might not destroy the FW...still they are rare for ranged AoE attacks - I'll fluff* it when it comes up

 

 

 

*Not, obviously, in the porn film sense.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Interceptor

 

As an englobing force wall, or even a plced one I would ask for an attack roll and therefore would not allow it as an abort to action. I suppose there is a slight precedent in block requiring an OCV vs OCV roll and you could replace that, but I would look askance...

 

 

Doc

[Alibear]

Re: Interceptor

 

That's what the trigger is for.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Interceptor

 

That's what the trigger is for.

 

Good point, well made. I missed the trigger element completely

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Interceptor

 

If a grenade has, or is assumed to have, "Real Weapon", then I'd say it can already be Deflected/Reflected, or intercepted without any additional power construct.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

Re: Interceptor

 

That is how I see it - the grenade, or whatever 'goes off' at the FW, destroying it and extending to its normal area of effect

 

No idea if that is the right approach, but it is the only one I can think of that makes sense!

 

 

 

 

Lets look at the classic fireball description. A gesture, and a flaming sphere shoots forth to explode in a fiery ball at the location I designate. But wait! If the sphere hits something before that time then it detonates prematurely!

 

Of course, I play Hero games, so that doesn't actually happen to my FB. You can't Missile Deflect my little flaming sphere cause I didn't take 'Can be Missile Deflected' as a limitation, and you can't make it explode prematurely because I paid points for the power, and it works the way I want. Nice try though.

 

A generous GM might reduce the AoE attack by a d6 to represent it punching a hole through your barrier. Assuming you brought the Faygo that week.

[Ocelot]

Re: Interceptor

 

Okay, either I'm a genius or an idiot, but I'm surprised something hasn't been brought up yet. Probably because it wouldn't work. But, what about

 

Mental Illusions?

 

Seems to me, you're controlling where the person shoots, so you're actually making him think he's shooting somewhere else. Well, depending on the special effect. But, with a high enough level of Mental Illusions, you could basically just make him think he was shooting his AoE blast somewhere else. He'd think he was shooting it where you were, and in reality, he'd be shooting his best friend.

 

Am I missing something, or would this totally work?

[Utech]

Re: Interceptor

 

You might want to read the "Dispelling Incoming Attacks" section (5ER page 149) and simply rule that (using the same mechanics) a character can snipe at any incoming attack with a suitable Power. In any given attack, naturally, the GM and Players will have to use dramatic and common sense to determine if this can be done at all and what the results are.

 

Examples:

• Attacker throws a bottle, defender shoots it with his six-shooter. Bottle shatters.
  
• Attacker summons a bolt of lightning out of the sky, defender throws a rock at it. Rock explodes and lightning fails to strike target.
  
• Attacker attempts to cause pain (Ego Attack), defender modifies it with Empathy based Mental Illusions and the attack causes the target to feel nothing but a mild tingling sensation. A fly who happened to be transiting the area at the time, however, is wracked by intense pain.
  
• Attacker throws a bus, defender shoots it with his Firebolt spell. The Firebolt ignites the bus' gas tank and it explodes in mid-air.
  
• Attacker tosses a lasso, defender throws a knife and it cuts the rope.
  

[Sean Waters]

Re: Interceptor

 

Okay, either I'm a genius or an idiot, but I'm surprised something hasn't been brought up yet. Probably because it wouldn't work. But, what about

 

Mental Illusions?

 

Seems to me, you're controlling where the person shoots, so you're actually making him think he's shooting somewhere else. Well, depending on the special effect. But, with a high enough level of Mental Illusions, you could basically just make him think he was shooting his AoE blast somewhere else. He'd think he was shooting it where you were, and in reality, he'd be shooting his best friend.

 

Am I missing something, or would this totally work?

 

It is something I'd considered, but it is very different mechanically: it means that soemone with high EGO is less likely to miss, which seems odd (or high PER if you use Images, which is perhaps more understandable).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Interceptor

 

Lets look at the classic fireball description. A gesture, and a flaming sphere shoots forth to explode in a fiery ball at the location I designate. But wait! If the sphere hits something before that time then it detonates prematurely!

 

Of course, I play Hero games, so that doesn't actually happen to my FB. You can't Missile Deflect my little flaming sphere cause I didn't take 'Can be Missile Deflected' as a limitation, and you can't make it explode prematurely because I paid points for the power, and it works the way I want. Nice try though.

 

A generous GM might reduce the AoE attack by a d6 to represent it punching a hole through your barrier. Assuming you brought the Faygo that week.

 

 

Does your HeroBall explode when it hits the barrier? If not, how does it do the one point of damage required to get through the FW? You can't use AoE attacks to punch through normal walls to hit something outside the AoE on the other side, even if you can target that thing through the wall. The fact that you can see someone through a plate glass window (DEF 3 BODY 1) doesn't mean you can fireball them: you have to destroy the window first, and if you are stuck in a one hex glass box, you are going to have to smash it first, and if you use your fireball, it is going to go off right in front of you.

 

That's what I think anyway. Mind you I've been very wrong before - and I genuinely don't know how th rules deal with AoE attacks and barriers.