Just passing through

[Sean Waters]

Desolid. bit of discussion about this recently. Not looking to criticise desolidification, which has done a solid job over the years (), but perhaps teh time ahs come to look at a new approach. I present herewith the bare bones, no actual costs involved. We can talk abuot that later if people like the premise. It adds a sort of scaling - not perfect, but never mind - and a bit more structure so you can build the character you want more precisely. Anyway, see what you think...

 

1. Desolid dis not make you desolid to everything (but one thing) automatically - quite the reverse. It ONLY made you desolid to one thing/sfx. You can't interact with it at all, and it can't interact with you. If you are desolid to lead, for example, bulets pass through you as if you are not there, although they might sbag your clothes. You couls not pick up a pieve of lead, or melt it with your laser vision.

 

2. You can buy an adder or advantage to be desolid to more things, or broader categories of sfx. Same rules as above apply.

 

3. Rather than buying an advantage for each of your attack powers, you can buy a special power that enables you to 'actively interact'. The power costs as much as the cost of your desolid active points, and allows you to use attack powers up to that many active points. You can increase the number of active points it allows you to use in attacks (including STR) by (say) 1 point for +2AP.

 

4. I'm not at all keen on the power being used for a form of invulnerability, by which I mean, in effect, rather than passing through you, whatever you are desolid to bounces off you. Mind you you could probably do that as an advantage to the special 'active interaction' power, if you really had to.

[OddHat]

Re: Just passing through

 

Looks workable enough, but I'd rather see a return to a modified earlier version of desolid, as the Invulnerability issue is the thing most argued over (not just from the bouncing off side, but from the ignoring environmental damage side).

 

So, I'd rather see desolid let you pass through X Defense & Body per phase, and provide X defense and knockback resistance. Basically, you'd buy Tunneling (closes behind you), Armor and KB resistance as a compound power, with the SFX: Desolid. Not being able to interact with the world while desolid would be a -2 limitation on the total, or maybe just on the armor. Sufficiently powerful attacks and effects would still affect desolid characters, and ADSO would be replaced by extra DCs of damage only vs Desolid characters.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Just passing through

 

I don't have experience with some of the original Desolid stuff; however, I'm (wait for it...) 100% in agreement with this. Maybe not these exact mechanics, but all the powers that I'm familiar with can be "grown" over time, and that makes sense to me. Desolid you have to cut back to get the effect you want; it makes more sense to me to have it fractured out.

 

Desolid vs. one type of attack, only one part of the body, and so on would seem far more balanced to me than '40 points, reduce cost as necessary.' HERO, as a meme, seems built on "Start at 5 points, work your way up." I would like Extra Dimensional Movement to be rebuilt somewhat as well, to accommodate more 'banishment' style powers (which are currently a real b-tch to build).

 

But yes. I'd be completely behind this change for a sixth edition.

[Kdansky]

Re: Just passing through

 

You basically propose the shapeshift changes from 4th to FRED for desolid. Which I hated.

 

Still, I'm in favour.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Just passing through

 

You basically propose the shapeshift changes from 4th to FRED for desolid. Which I hated.

 

Still, I'm in favour.

 

...er...

 

 

It is all a bit wooly at the moment, but it would be nice to ge a discussion going as to what people want from desolid, and where they think the current costing is too high/low.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Just passing through

 

No sir, I don't like it.

 

I don't want to see people taking desolid to powered armor and then expecting their punches to be a free AVLD only vs. the wearer's personal PD.

 

HERO works best when powers are powers and special effects are special effects. Start crossing them up and you're asking for trouble.

 

Power definitions are precise and unambiguous. Special effects less so. Once you let special effects drive the system, you're using a screwdriver to hammer nails.

[OddHat]

Re: Just passing through

 

It is all a bit wooly at the moment, but it would be nice to ge a discussion going as to what people want from desolid, and where they think the current costing is too high/low.

 

I want Desolid to pour me a coffee and make me breakfast, then drive me to work, run errands for me, clean the house, pick me up and take me home, cook dinner, and give me a chair massage while I watch TV afterwards, all with a smile on it's face and a song in its heart, and I want it to be grateful.

 

But, failing that, I'd like desolid's pricing and utility to be built as tunneling + Armor + KB Resistance. Steve has ruled that Desolid doesn't protect you from falling damage because it's "too cheap", and while I disagree I'm willing to go with it (his game system, his call). If that's going to be the case, I see no reason why desolid should protect against a 20d6 punch but not a 20d6 fall. So, best to pay points for the DEF.

 

I don't really like the Desolid to [insert SFX] idea; that road leads to too many crappy builds like Godlike's Herakles (a character with vast super strength and invulnerability, only versus tanks).

[Kdansky]

Re: Just passing through

 

I want Desolid to pour me a coffee and make me breakfast, then drive me to work, run errands for me, clean the house, pick me up and take me home, cook dinner, and give me a chair massage while I watch TV afterwards, all with a smile on it's face and a song in its heart, and I want it to be grateful.

 

But, failing that, I'd like desolid's pricing and utility to be built as tunneling + Armor + KB Resistance. Steve has ruled that Desolid doesn't protect you from falling damage because it's "too cheap", and while I disagree I'm willing to go with it (his game system, his call). If that's going to be the case, I see no reason why desolid should protect against a 20d6 punch but not a 20d6 fall. So, best to pay points for the DEF.

 

I don't really like the Desolid to [insert SFX] idea; that road leads to too many crappy builds like Godlike's Herakles (a character with vast super strength and invulnerability, only versus tanks).

 

Don't forget that Desolid is female, yes?

 

Errrrhm... Back on topic. I've never seen desolid so much as a damage immunity as a Walk Through Walls power, so that works fine for me. On the other hand, if you have desolid and don't want to fall to death: Life support Breathing for a couple minutes (about 2 points) + 1" of Flying ("only inside matter") are your friend Fall into the ground and slowly get out again, and it even fits the concept.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Just passing through

 

This is one of the areas where Hero's philosophy of divorcing mechanics from SFX gets into problems. In other games intangibility is intangibility.

 

What I would like to see is it taken from being an absolute power to a more graded one - not everyone is as intangible as everyone else!

 

With some form of graded power I think it would be easier to dictate what you can travel through and how quickly, what you can expect to happen if you enter dangerous environments, and what if someone hits you or you fall.

 

If there is a dice aspect to the grading then you might see offsetting of damage against damage for example.

 

I think there is a place for SFX specific limitations for the power - many examples of intangible superheroes have SFX specific differences.

 

The power should have common sense applicability - there is nothing worse than a system which throws you in a situation where you have to say that desolid doesn't mean that...

 

 

Doc