How do you approach spirit binding?

[runescience]

The elric story line and runequest conversion has a wonderful mechanic of binding demons/spirits to items.

 

How do you approach spirit binding?

What are the Hero-based mechanics?

What are the effects for success?

and what are the effects for failure.

 

Id like to include that in my game.

[Fitz]

Re: How do you approach spirit binding?

 

Major Transform - Demon/Spirit into Item with (x) powers, and take it from there. In an Elric-style setting I'd give the spell all sorts of limitations -- lots of extra time, must know demon's true name, various rare, expensive amd/or disgusting foci (blood of innocents etc.). Plus, if you want to actually be able to use its powers once in the item, the demon (or whatever) would have to be cooperative or be coerced: that might require a pretty hefty mind control, or a powerful lingering amicable summon.

 

That's the approach I'd take, off the cuff.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: How do you approach spirit binding?

 

I have a notional, nearly obsolete Magic System in my San'Dora setting that I called Spellbinding (it was one of the three arts of the Witchlords of Vorgaa).

 

Its basically just a less elevated form of my Artificing magic system (which is newer and more prevalent in the setting's "current" era).

 

It's primary notable feature is that all items made with it have a spirit of some sort bound into the item and the game effect of it is a mandatory Side Effect past a certain AP threshold. Older magic items of this type are still floating around here and there and tend to be very powerful but dangerous to use.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: How do you approach spirit binding?

 

Here's a sample item of this type:

 

Amdimoriena: HKA 3d6+1 (vs. PD), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Affects Desol Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), NND (Force Effects; +1), Does BODY (+1), Transdimensional (Any Dimension; +1) (250 Active Points); Independent (-2), OIF Unbreakable (-1/2), -2 Decreased STUN Multiplier (-1/2), Cannot Be Used With Block or Disarm (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4), Side Effects (Side Effect does a predefined amount of damage; If the weapon is Drawn and does not draw blood other than the bearers, it does 5 BODY to the bearer; -1/4)

 

Notes: Famous magical sword with a 4 thousand year history. Created by the Witchlord Heargoran, this mighty blade served many until it was lost three thousand years ago when its current bearer Farroall Vadefean disappeared along with an expedition into the Portavian Mountains. Reappeared in the hands of the warrior known as the Hooded Man 22 years ago, but he wont tell the story of how he came by it. This blade has a tendency to be overlooked, fading in to the background. It is not flashy, ornate, or remarkable for its appearance; it is the opposite of that in fact. It is functional, simple, and plain. Until it is wielded in battle; then it comes into sharp focus, seeming to twist the very air around it, tearing through space, flesh, rock, whatever as if it were not even there. It strikes without great force, simply parting that which it passes through. However the blade is thirsty, and requires its price in blood.

[Curufea]

Re: How do you approach spirit binding?

 

In the Western Shores - Spirits, Ghosts and Demons are not independant spiritual being, but manifestations of magic. Although some demons are actually aliens and just mislabelled

 

Some spirits and ghosts are schizophrenic offshoots of a caster, or the locals when magic is abused, some are shadow vestiges of personalities left in the leylines when a sentient being dies, before they are wafted away in the forever moving tides of mana.

 

A wizard or sorcerer that binds a spirit to an item - is either taking the semi-sentient nodule of mana from the local area before it disperses, and using that as an "artificial intelligence" for the item. The binding being a measure to keep the sentients more fixed and less susceptible to the weather of magic.

Or - it is the enchanting persons personality (subconscious or possibly a stereotype of part of their personality) that they invest into the item. The enchanting person may call it a spirit still, without realising the mechanism of magic and sentients. A more accurate definition is that it is a personality clone (possibly abberant).

 

Binding spirits depends on the ley lines the enchantment is done in - it basically means that a guiding semi-intelligence will have a store of magic from the ley line to use. The ley lines come in many flavours and are mostly based on the beliefs of the nearby churches. System terms - like an AI with programs, except the programs are spells of the correct college for the ley line.

 

Binding an alien as though it were a demon depends entirely on the alien - most have no magical powers, or none that are compatible with the world of the Western Shores. The act of enchanting with the magic of the local area is usually directly opposed by any magical powers the alien may have - and will either not work, or cancel those powers.

[FireTiger]

Re: How do you approach spirit binding?

 

The elric story line and runequest conversion has a wonderful mechanic of binding demons/spirits to items.

 

How do you approach spirit binding?

What are the Hero-based mechanics?

What are the effects for success?

and what are the effects for failure.

 

Id like to include that in my game.

 

Well, if you're using a version of the Stormbringer universe, I might be able to help a bit. Please note that there may be more recent books containing rules & write-up than the ones I mention below. I'm using what I have on hand in print for the most part. (Using my one of copies of the Stormbringer RPG for reference.)

 

This one is going to take awhile, I think, so my apologies now, folks.

 

If you've not got access to Horror Hero or any other book that might contain such rules for the Hero System, the base power here is quite likely Summon.

 

Elementals: These could be summoned & bound into objects, though most of the stories feature demons bound into weapons & armor. A starting requirement is, of course, having a substantial amount of the proper element at hand. [so maybe something like: Conditional Power (Power only works if at least 1-hex's worth of the appropriate element is available -¼).]

 

The second part is a little harder to work into Hero System terms, and may be easier to skip, as there are plenty of other requirements if you're trying for a direct conversion. An INT + POW total of 32 is required for a sorcerer to summon a lesser elemental in Stormbringer. [Looking at my copy of RPG Data Con would make this an INT + EGO total of 33 in Hero. This would probably be something like: Conditional Power (Power only works if the user's total of INT + EGO = 33 or more -¼).]

 

The next requirement listed is Time, this is 2d10 minutes in Stormbringer, with an average summoning time being 11 minutes. This one is more common in Hero terms, and would probably be something like: (Extra Time: 11 minutes -2).

 

There would also be Gestures, Incantations, and Concentration limitations applied, as the sorcery of the Young Kingdoms is difficult to perform. And of course, the limitation Focus can be used for the binding object.

 

Note 1: If you can find a copy of Horror Hero for 4th ed. you'll have a set of spirit rules to work from, as well as a Hero System version of the Black Blade itself.

 

After the sorcerer has successfully summoned an elemental, it will attempt to carry out the first order it is given, it is then free to depart. So in order to bind one, the first order should be for it to enter a nearby object in immaterial form. (There is also a note that care should be taken in choice of binding objects—a fire elemental bound into a garment is only bound until the garment is consumed by the elemental's fire.)

 

The actual Binding is a simple mechanic in Stormbringer, being a roll of POW ×3 on 1d100. [Presuming a value of 16 for POW, this would give the sorcerer a 48% chance of success in binding a lesser elemental. The rough equivalent in Hero terms would be an EGO roll versus 10-.]

 

If the binding is successful, the sorcerer can call forth the bound elemental to perform a task three times in a single hour without penalty. [Charges (3, Recoverable in 1 hour -¾)]. If the elemental is called upon for a fourth time within a single hour, then it is freed from the binding. [something like: Charges (1, Can only be used after the first three charges have been used within a single hour, Never recovers, frees elemental -1¼).]

 

If the binding fails, then there is the side effect of reducing the sorcerer's POW to 1 for a number of hours. One point of POW is regained per hour until the sorcerer's POW (Power) score returns to normal. [so this might be something like: Side Effect (Extreme, 6d6 EGO Drain, if user fails the Binding EGO roll -1).]

 

There is a note that each time a character binds an elemental, the GM rolls 2d6 versus the number of elementals that the character currently has bound. If the result is greater than the number bound, nothing happens. If the result is lower, then the sorcerer has drawn the attention (and likely disfavor) of the appropriate elemental lord.

 

Note 2: The Hero System Bestiary for 4th ed. has example write-ups for elementals on pages 39-43.

 

Demons (Chaos) & Others (Law): The process here is much like that for summoning & binding elementals. It is noted that usually this requires hours of time to accomplish, though a "rush-job" summoning can be performed in 2d10 minutes. So a careful summoning could be something like: Extra Time (6 hours -3½) and a hurried summoning would be (Extra Time: 11 minutes -2).

 

In place of a sizable amount of an element, an elaborate set-up is required for lesser demons. The preparations include the Activation Roll (or Requires a Skill Roll), Concentration, Focus, Gestures, Incantations, and Side Effects limitations in addition to the Extra Time noted above. Demons are considerably harder to summon, and not as "friendly" as elementals. The Side Effect is much like that for failing an elemental binding and occurs if the summoning AR/RSR fails.

 

Demons are, generally, unhappy with being summoned. The sorcerer must bargain with the demon in order to gain even a single service from it. (Social Skills backed up by good role playing come in handy for this.) In Stormbringer this is represented by a roll of CHA ×5 on 1d100. On a rough average, this gives a sorcerer a 50-55% chance of success. [in Hero terms then, the summoner would need a 12- on the appropriate skill checks.] If the attempt to bargain with the demon fails, the creature may pretend that all is well, as it cannot leave the summoning Octacle until it is released by the summoner.

 

Note 3: It is a good idea to include a "And you promise not to cause me any harm when I release you" clause in bargains with Chaos Demons.

 

Binding a lesser demon is also harder than binding a lesser elemental. In Stormbringer this requires a POW vs. POW check on the Resistance Table. If the two POW scores are equal, the chance of success is 50%. This is modified by +5% for each point the sorcerer's POW exceeds the demon's POW, and by -5% for each point that the demon's POW exceeds the sorcerer's. In Hero terms POW equates to EGO, so having the two make EGO vs. EGO checks should work nicely (as per the rules for Skill vs. Skill checks).

 

Generally, demon binding objects—unlike those for elementals—are Independent Foci, whoever holds the object can attempt to command the demon. Each new master of such an object must make his or her own EGO vs. EGO binding check, failure frees the demon (often with physical combat as a result, the most commonly bound demons being demons of combat).

 

A sorcerer who successfully summons but fails to bind a demon must make new Binding checks (EGO vs. EGO) against any other demons he or she has currently bound. Each failure releases that particular demon. The sorcerer is likely to lose each such power struggle after the first, since failing the new binding triggers the Side Effect. [side Effect (Extreme, 6d6 EGO Drain, if user fails the Binding EGO roll -1).]

 

Sorcerers are limited to having the total number of demons that they have bound being equal to their PRE ÷ 2. [something like: Conditional Power (May only have PRE ÷ 2 bound at any one time -1).]

 

Note 4: While there are example demons scattered throughout the Hero System Bestiary for 4th ed., they don't really fit the types described in Stormbringer. The example demons on pages 118-127 of Horror Hero for 4th ed. are a bit closer, but for the true "Elric Saga" feel, a GM should probably design custom critters.

 

I'll close this out here, and I thank those folks who're still reading this for their time and I hope that it won't prove to have been utterly wasted.

[Markdoc]

Re: How do you approach spirit binding?

 

I use a very simple system: you can use the XP in a creature to power a magical item, by "binding its spirit".

 

This is (mechanically) simply a major transform, with the proviso that you can move the points around. How many points you move, of course depends on how long you spend transforming.

 

You don't want your magical item healing back, so it's generally built without healing, and instead must have a (relatively simple) method which will destroy the enchantment as a way of canceling it.

 

The advantage of making magic items by binding spirits into them is that you can make magic items without spending your own precious XP. The disadvantages are that:

a) it's generally considered an evil act to turn a sentient being into an item. Hence most items with bound spirits tend to be the sort of thing that evil people like. Swords with demons in them, black armour with spiky bitz, huge purple and gold codpieces that radiate an air of foreboding and stifled terror - that sort of thing.

You actually have to capture the creature you want to bind and then generally keep it restrained during the "binding process", which means you end up spending points on other things, so you don't die trying to make magic items.

c) the bound item is a transformed character, not an item. That means unless the target was also subject to a spiritual transform, it will have a personality, which may or may not be helpful*. It also means that if someone can work out the unbinding ritual (or just zap it with a dispel), your magic item goes buh-bye. Worse, it turns back. If (for example) chanting the true name of a demon frees it from its enchantment, you might end up holding an angry demon by the ankle in the middle of a fight.....

 

In theory, that makes it possible for characters to churn out powerful items. In practice, the disadvantages (and the points investment required) mean that it has never been a problem, in part because I generally disallow transforms that actually *add* points - just those that move 'em around. That way to create powerful items you need to capture powerful monsters (or heroes: as it says in Slainé "Blades for heroes, need the blood of Heroes"). Works for me.

 

cheers, Mark

 

*Long ago, one of my PCs (Fonographix the Bard ) ended up with an intelligent flaming sword - very good for killing trolls. It was a cool sword until the day when I tried to sneak past a big warband of trolls: at which point the sword, outraged, started to scream in its tiny voice "Hey you! Yeah you, green and Ugly! I'm talking to you! I had yo momma, You wanna know how I had yo' momma? You come over here, etc etc" We had to fight them all and nearly died. After that the damn sword wouldn't shut up about our "cowardice" and in the end I gave the damn thing back to Hengeist and bought a nice normal magic sword.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: How do you approach spirit binding?

 

Well, there is the colour aspect of teh binding and the mechanics of it.

 

In RuneQuest the idea of the binding a spirit was that it increased the number of spells you could remember and provided an alternative store of magic points to cast spells with. As such it was essentially a buff to the character.

 

If I was looking at it in Fantasy Hero terms then I'd have to look at whether there were limits to the number of spells that I could remember (use) at any one time. If so the spirit binding would buff whatever stat was used to determine that (most often INT) and would buff END and REC. I might require the player to keep the base END and REC and the buffed stuff seperate for accounting purposes.

 

That would provide the caster with the game facility you find in RuneQuest.

 

The colour side of it required the PC to defeat the spirit in spirit combat and then to cast the proper spell. That could be abstracted any number of ways - in RuneQuest it revolved around POW a stat we do not have in Hero.

 

Doc

[Lucius]

Re: How do you approach spirit binding?

 

Very carefully.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Not carefully enough, the palindromedary fears.....