A multisensorical virtual reality

[Arthur_Telluria]

In preparing a fully fledged cyberpunk campaign, I've come across the question of how to make a set of rules for Cyberspace without them being too cryptic, too complicated and fun to play with.

First of all, I've taken some inspiration from the Shadowpunk conversion, and have taken up their money rule, so that my cyber heroes will get 20.000 credits for 1 character point. This is important in so far, as this money is then translated back into character points worth of cyberware and simware, the latter being "powers" in form of software for use in cyberspace.

The cyberspace I have in mind is a rather non-abstract one, the best comparison being either the holodeck, Neo's Matrix or Snow Crash's Metaverse. So it looks and feels real, though its inhabitants can sport some features which wouldn't work in meatspace.

 

So, the first step into cyberspace is a cyberbrain mind-machine interface piece of actual cyberware (the basic "mind link - machines" power with the "no range" and the "only for properly rigged machines" limiation") and a cyberdeck computer (which among other things gives the user the "extradimensional movement" power). The Cyberdeck then is where this whole "rules set" becomes interesting:

The jacked in character takes his INT, EGO and DEX scores along, the other characteristics then depend on the kind of deck he's using.

 

The standard "kid's stuff" / office machine cyberdeck gives the user STR, CON, BODY, PRE, and COM scores of 2-3 on the net. And this kind of deck should also probably give the user just half of his DEX to run the net.

This would then cost about 3000-5000 creds.

 

The next step would then be the Baseline SimDeck, which allows full DEX, but still lumbers around a score of 5-8 for the simnet-characteristics.

Plus, this kind of deck can run simple software, giving the user 10 points worth of "powers" buyable as simware.

A real bargain at 10.000 creds.

 

Then there is somewhat of a jump in power, as the following step then is the advanced simdeck, which enables the netrunning character with a stable 10 for all of the simnet characteristics, and can run 15 points of software, for the price of 50.000 creds.

 

Approaching the realm of professional workstations, the high power simdeck then gives the character 20 points to actually build a simnet persona's characteristics, alongside with 20 points of installable simware powers for the steep price of 75.000 credits.

 

And finally on the bleeding edge the simdeck class which is illegal in many countries, the cutting edge deck, which gives the user 35 points to build his persona's characteristics with, plus 40 points of software powers.

This thing then comes for a whopping 110.000 creds.

 

I haven't yet had the chance to actually test this system, but it looks promising to me, at least on paper.

Most characters in the setting will have some access to the simnet, due to the basic cyberbrain being a very widespread implant, which is something I'm implementing to negate the usual "and now the netrunner needs 2 hours of the GMs time, the rest of you commence twiddeling your thumbs and watch in awe!" problem netrunners / deckers usually pose for cyberpunk games.

I'm not sure yet as how to handle skills. But as I'm taking a "matrix like" approach to the cyberspace, skills a character has in meatspace should be transferable 1:1 to cyberspace with a baseline deck. Also, skillsofts the character has running in his cyberbrain could be taken along. Just that a character in cyberspace would actually need "equipment programs" worth CPs to do stuff.

For example, lockpicking works similarly in cyberspace as it does in the real world, just that you'd need a lockpick program to pull it off with. Same thing with weapons. They work the same way they do in meatspace, but you still need to actually have one.

Another thing would be superpowers. A person with a non commercially available custom build (and extremely expensive) deck could up the useable CPs for "software" (and characteristics), and thus build a superpowered persona.

 

It's just a rough sketch up till now, nothing is really final. One CP worth of simware right now translates to about 3000 credits if I'm not mistaken. So by taking the "money" out of the equation that would translate to roughly 6-7 CP in the simnet for ever 1 CP in meatspace.

I've not yet come up with rules for dump shock and taking damage.

I'm toying with the idea that a cyber persona doesn't have STUN, and that "killing damage" in Cyberspace translates into STUN for the character... Which even on paper sounds too complicated somehow. I want to have accessible and fun cyberspace rules.

 

Suggestions? Ideas? Comments? Thoughts?

[Basil]

Re: A multisensorical virtual reality

 

The most important thing to remember is this: "CyberSpace" (or whatever you call it) is a different dimension. It has its own rules, and its own topography. Things do not work there the same as in "meatspace" (at least, they don't have to). Thus, you can handwave a lot of details.

 

In particular, if Room A and Room B are next to each other in CyberSpace, but are "associated with" different computers in cities 5000 km apart in meatspace, you don't need FTL to get between Room A and Room B!!. This was one of the dumbest errors in Cyber HERO. Places in CyberSpace take as long to go between as the distance in CyberSpace.

 

Second: do not worry about how to do something as a "program." It's a power in CyberSpace, so figure it out as a power. Call the deck an IIF, or give the power "Only In CyberSpace," or some other simple, straight-forward Lim, and you're done. All this fiddling with trying to make "programs" work from the meatspace POV made Cyber HERO nearly unplayable.

[Basil]

Re: A multisensorical virtual reality

 

The most important thing to remember is this: "CyberSpace" (or whatever you call it) is a different dimension. It has its own rules, and its own topography. Things do not work there the same as in "meatspace" (at least, they don't have to). Thus, you can handwave a lot of details.

 

In particular, if Room A and Room B are next to each other in CyberSpace, but are "associated with" different computers in cities 5000 km apart in meatspace, you don't need FTL to get between Room A and Room B!!. This was one of the dumbest errors in Cyber HERO. Places in CyberSpace take as long to go between as the distance in CyberSpace.

 

Second: do not worry about how to do something as a "program." It's a power in CyberSpace, so figure it out as a power. Call the deck an IIF, or give the power "Only In CyberSpace," or some other simple, straight-forward Lim, and you're done. All this fiddling with trying to make "programs" work from the meatspace POV made Cyber HERO nearly unplayable.

[Basil]

Re: A multisensorical virtual reality

 

The most important thing to remember is this: "CyberSpace" (or whatever you call it) is a different dimension. It has its own rules, and its own topography. Things do not work there the same as in "meatspace" (at least, they don't have to). Thus, you can handwave a lot of details.

 

In particular, if Room A and Room B are next to each other in CyberSpace, but are "associated with" different computers in cities 5000 km apart in meatspace, you don't need FTL to get between Room A and Room B!!. This was one of the dumbest errors in Cyber HERO. Places in CyberSpace take as long to go between as the distance in CyberSpace.

 

Second: do not worry about how to do something as a "program." It's a power in CyberSpace, so figure it out as a power. Call the deck an IIF, or give the power "Only In CyberSpace," or some other simple, straight-forward Lim, and you're done. All this fiddling with trying to make "programs" work from the meatspace POV made Cyber HERO nearly unplayable.

[Arthur_Telluria]

Re: A multisensorical virtual reality

 

Yes. It's due to Cyberspace being a diffrent dimension that characters - or rather their personas - can indeed have superpowers there, which isn't possible in the "real" world.

I never had a chance to look at the "real" Cyber Hero, so I never had the chance to actually take bad ideas from it.

FTL? No. I've not yet thought about it much, but transport in Cyberspace is a thing the personas don't have much of an influence on. If for example room A and room B of the Nihon Corporation Virtuality Headquarters are hosted on servers located in Chiba and the other in Kuala Lumpur, chances are the users won't even recognize it - though knowing that by accessing the Kuala Lumpur server you can reach the Chiba based one without much trouble would be a worthwhile information. In theory you could reason that it IS somehow FTL travel, but only in terms of meatspace. Not in terms of Cyberspace movement, and as that is where I want the focus to be, I'll not do it that way.

Programs are powers. And weapons. And tools. Or rather the other way round, an attack program is an attack power with the limitation "SimNet Program". Not sure how much that limitation would be worth though. -1/2? -3/4?

That's IMO the best way to go. Characters can of course then write their own programs, which is also something I have to put some thought into. Which skills to use? Computer Programming and / or Weaponsmith? And of course for the creation of programs there should be some limitations. Like that the creation of a Cyberspace program takes CPs x 2 days, and a set of specific skills, computer programming and some knowledge skills.

Creation of locations in the net could then be handled with the bases perk, combined with the "cyberspace only" limitation.

[Maur]

Re: A multisensorical virtual reality

 

Anything you are doing in Cyberspace is going to be based on Computer Programming. While what you craft might look like a gun, it isn't.

 

Other things to deal with, does the character take actual damage from attacks that originate in cyberspace? Or is it the Deck that takes the damage. Do programs take time to load and become available? Is there a limit on how many programs a Deck can keep active at one time?

 

Something else to think about. Why does the characters meat body Dex play any part in his Dex in Cyberspace? Movement and reactions in cyberspace are more about how fast he is mentally, not physically since he isn't limited by the delay in the signals moving down his nerves to his real fingers or feet to move or attack.

[Clonus]

Re: A multisensorical virtual reality

 

Anything you are doing in Cyberspace is going to be based on Computer Programming. While what you craft might look like a gun, it isn't.

 

Other things to deal with, does the character take actual damage from attacks that originate in cyberspace? Or is it the Deck that takes the damage. Do programs take time to load and become available? Is there a limit on how many programs a Deck can keep active at one time?

 

Something else to think about. Why does the characters meat body Dex play any part in his Dex in Cyberspace? Movement and reactions in cyberspace are more about how fast he is mentally, not physically since he isn't limited by the delay in the signals moving down his nerves to his real fingers or feet to move or attack.

 

But DEX is at least as much mental as it is physical. While someone could buy extra DEX only in Cyberspace, the whole point of cyberspace hacking is to turn the process from a rigorous crafting of programs using a combination of intellect, persistence and bs into an FPS videogame. While computer programming should play a significant role in cyberspace, being for example what you would roll on to create your gun, you'd shoot it with your DEX and your skill with guns. If not, then there's no point in even bothering with the immersive VR. You'd be better off just hacking on the keyboard.

[tathel]

Re: A multisensorical virtual reality

 

Another thought is how much control does someone who knows how to program their own software have. On the internet for example i can code my own web page depending on what language and standards i follow it can do some intresting things or it might not render well in some browsers. Or is your cyberspace more like a MMORPG where it is completly standardized and run by a company and the players may only be able to program small macros to make things more efficient while they are in there.

Also is there one cyberspace or are their underground networks?

Could a player with enough computer knowledge hack and code his own powers reaching beyond the set limit?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: A multisensorical virtual reality

 

Another thought is how much control does someone who knows how to program their own software have. On the internet for example i can code my own web page depending on what language and standards i follow it can do some intresting things or it might not render well in some browsers. Or is your cyberspace more like a MMORPG where it is completly standardized and run by a company and the players may only be able to program small macros to make things more efficient while they are in there.

Also is there one cyberspace or are their underground networks?

Could a player with enough computer knowledge hack and code his own powers reaching beyond the set limit?

 

Smells like VPP Spirit...

 

I haven't done this in HERO. That said, Basil is pretty much spot on; don't try and do it from a 'real world' POV, do it from the internet's POV. Build powers as powers and call them programs. Don't bend yourself into knots over what something is or isn't; worry far more about it being operational and balanced within its own framework.

 

Now, can you buy an RKA, Autocannon in Cyberspace? SURE. Absolutely. You can even buy CSLs that work with your CyberSpace Autocannon. You can give all the powers in CyberSpace the limitation "Spell (-1/2)" and call it "Program (-1/2)" thus indicating that what you know in the meatworld doesn't translate back again. No more than my phenomenal Street Fighter skills make me a black belt IRL, does Killer Shrike's LINE training mean he can kick my can in Street Fighter. They don't work together.

[Basil]

Re: A multisensorical virtual reality

 

OK, first of all: CyberSpace is a separate universe, like Discworld or Middle Earth. It is not Earth seen through some odd gizmos, it is not an aspect of Earth's computers. If you try and model it that way, you will give yourself the biggest PITA you can imagine. And, it will be dull, unplayable, or both.

 

I've thought long and hard about this, ever since the days of CyberHero. I think the far-and-away-best method to handle everything would be to have the deck give Multiform with Linked XDM, and the Limitation "Leaves original body behind in a coma" on the Multiform---yes, that's technically a Duplication, but since the original form is both useless and in a different universe, I think it's simpler as a Multiform.

 

This lets the "programs" be merely window-dressing (not even up to the level of Special Effects); you say your deck gives your other form this, that, and the other abilities because "I wrote up this neat wossname program," while the mechanics are that you built the other form to have X, Y, and Z abilities/skills/powers.

 

Believe me, having read CyberHero I can promise you that writing up each and every ability as a separate program is nothing but an enormous PITA. Just give the other form the neat tricks, and have done with it.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: A multisensorical virtual reality

 

MetaCyber

 

Specifically:

 

Technology

 

 

This very subject came up recently in another thread, so Ill just copy and paste my response for convenience:

 

 

...there are many ways to do cyberspace. I've explored many of them myself as part of my MetaCyber setting development. Others have explored the area as well in their own way. Almost all of the ways are equally valid; it just comes down to what you want it to feel like and you pick one with relative pros and cons that approximate that.

 

For instance,

 

One way is to treat it as a type of EDM or Desolid with Leaves Body Behind. The special EDM's from the Genre books like the Speed Zone are in the same vein. However I don't care for either method so Ill selfishly skip describing them.

 

Another way (and my preferred way) is Skill based with Computer Programming and/or Systems Operation and/or other Skills (often contested by an opposing program, like "Intrusion Countermeasure" software), with hacking being something between a single roll resolution or a series of contested skill rolls as preferred. This is the most "realistic" approach and IMO the most straightforward and easiest to adjudicate, but for people that have an expectation of Gibson-esque VR its going to seem very dry and uncool.

 

Another way, which I explored at length for MetaCyber as my initial plan is to leverage the Computer and Program rules in the book and extend them. The approach I took was to basically reuse the Computer concept for APPLICATIONS and to bolster an actual PHYSICAL computer as having a VPP with which to run APPLICATIONS which were themselves designed using the Computer rules. Its a complicated concept, but the simple version is a physical Computer couldnt run an Application with better stats than it has (processing power), and the number of applications currently running was limited by the size of its VPP (memory / swap). This allowed the individual "programs" to be very complex rather than 1 point line items; so for instance a Trace application was represented with a full computer write up and was able to do a large number of things in pursuit of running a Trace. It all worked out very well mechanically, but I discovered that in practice it was extremely difficult for most people to wrap their heads around it. There's a thread on it somewhere on these boards...here

 

Another way is with a special use of either Multiform or Duplication bought via a Focus (Cyberdeck or computer usually), with the campaign rule that the Avatars (Multiforms or Duplicates as you prefer, mechanically the difference is negligible and basically comes down to concurrency considerations) only exists in the "Net" or "Matrix" or whatever you call it, and treat the "Net" as a normal alternate setting with its own in place rules (typically superheroic, but this can vary even within the setting based on server). This can be fun and offers a broad game within a game which can allow genre mixing, but it requires a lot more work from the GM as they are basically running (at least) two separate settings and also it typically only works if everyone in the PC group can and does participate. Its also much more supportive of a lighter, less gritty game. Personally I would trend towards Multiform if I were doing this in 5e because a person's Avatar(s) can be grossly more powerful than the "real" physical person in the "real world" part of the setting. Otherworld or The Matrix (movie) style Nets can be done like this.

 

My preferred way (aside from just using Skills), to do a full VR style net, is via Mental Powers only usable via the Net (-1 or more at the GM's option), also usually bought via a computer focus of some sort, or handled via a Data Link and a Restrainable Lim. The advantage to this method is that the Net is purely in the mind, and Mental Powers (or BOECV Powers) are already able to simulate that without additional rules. Interactive programs are just built as AI's, and a hacker uses Mind Control (perhaps with a Computer Programming RSR, or perhaps not depending on how you want to spin it) to force the AIs to use their programmatic routines at the hackers direction. For the common "Black Ice" type effects (security software that can hurt a hackers physical body) or Interrupt effects EGO Attack with our without does BODY work. For trace programs use Mind Scan, for Data Scans use Telepathy, for Trojan mode use Invis vs Mental.

 

And so on. There are a lot of ways to do it. Most of them can be made to work in a real game.

 

For MetaCyber I went with two approaches, a hard core "real" Programmatic interface that is interacted with via Computer Programming and related skills. It takes real world equivalent time to pull off, and hackers need to be conversant with potentially a lot of different languages and technologies to be successful. The upside is with access and sufficient time a hacker can do anything they logically should be able to do to a real computer running real software. For a lighter 'VR' style approach there is a Neural interface that is basically done via consensual Mental Illusions. Different servers run different Nodes with different content, all expressible via MI. I discuss different qualities of rendering (more MI dice), etc. The useful thing about this approach is users don't have to know much at all about how computers really work, they can link in and interact within any functionality that has been exposed to the NET and do it in real time; the downside is not all functionality is exposed to the NET; you need a real programmer to do the serious hard core stuff.