Make a Zodiac based Magic System

[mayapuppies]

Hello all,

 

I am currently working on an astrologically based magic system to where the 'Astrologer' develops a set of powers based on the zodiac of my game world. Each 'Astrologer' is capable of developing all 12 sets.

 

Each set will be a multipower framework (i.e. Leo Abilities, Cancer Abilities, etc.) and each zodiac will have access to only certain powers (e.g. Leo has access to HKA, Leaping, Senses and Cancer has access to Armor, Damage Resistance, etc.). Similar to the way Killershrikes Aeldenari magic system is developed.

 

Now, each zodiacs multipower will only be available when that particular memeber of the zodiac is ascendant. So all of Leo's abilities are only available when the world is in Leo, for example.

 

Long story I know. But how much of a limitation would say that last bit would be worth? I mean these powers are only available for 1 month of thhe year, but at the same time the 'Astrologer' is capable of developing all 12 power sets...

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

Hello all,

 

I am currently working on an astrologically based magic system to where the 'Astrologer' develops a set of powers based on the zodiac of my game world. Each 'Astrologer' is capable of developing all 12 sets.

 

Each set will be a multipower framework (i.e. Leo Abilities, Cancer Abilities, etc.) and each zodiac will have access to only certain powers (e.g. Leo has access to HKA, Leaping, Senses and Cancer has access to Armor, Damage Resistance, etc.). Similar to the way Killershrikes Aeldenari magic system is developed.

 

Now, each zodiacs multipower will only be available when that particular memeber of the zodiac is ascendant. So all of Leo's abilities are only available when the world is in Leo, for example.

 

Long story I know. But how much of a limitation would say that last bit would be worth? I mean these powers are only available for 1 month of thhe year, but at the same time the 'Astrologer' is capable of developing all 12 power sets...

Window of Opportunity Limitation in FH, pg 136.

 

Window is "open" only once a year, but is open for a month at a time. Around a -2 3/4 limit, I think, and should be applicable to the whole MP, as it's a universal Limit (only the specifics of the windows change)

[mayapuppies]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

Ah, yes. Thank you sir. I had completely forgotten about that one.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

Ah' date=' yes. Thank you sir. I had completely forgotten about that one.[/quote']

No worries, glad to help

[Killer Shrike]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

Sounds more like my Totemic Shamanism Magic System than Aeldneari.

 

 

At any rate sounds intriguing, but challenging to "sell" a set of powers that only works 1/12 of the year to players.

[mayapuppies]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

Yeah, it's why I'm going to be heavily pushing the 'Master Astrologer' knows all 12 signs thing. Add in a bit of divination and some other hooks. But I'm hoping that it intrigues players enough to test the waters.

 

At the very least it will make an interesting NPC.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

What I do with all three of the sample "Validus Familiartas" Magic Systems on my site -- Totemic Shamanism (Animal Totem magic), Piedragemasi (Gemstone magic) and Troubadourus (Musical instrument based magic) is offer some freebie ability and/or "unlockables" for "completed sets" of powers both as incentive and distinguishing abilities.

 

For Totemic Shamanism, its free Beast Speech w/ Animals of any type the Shaman has a complete Totem set of FAMs for, plus they are specifically allowed to buy Multiform to assume the form of any Animal they have a full Totem for, and also permission to beef up any follower Animal Companions of a type the Shaman has a complete Totem for with special abilities. So, a freebie power and a couple of unlocks.

 

A Piedragemasi with a full Gemstone set unlocks the ability to make Charge Stones of that type of Gem (which are basically like Wand equivalents). They also gain a "signature ability" for that set as well.

 

A Troubadour with a full Instrument set is allowed to buy a personalized but thematically appropriate power, so another unlock.

 

 

You could do something similar for your zodiac concept -- just associate a trait w/ a zodiac sign and an Astrolomancer that masters a zodiac sign can use a relevant ability. This special should work even when the sign isnt in phase to counterbalance the narrow Windows of Opportunity in effect for this model.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

How will the astrological signs dovetail with the campaign climate? Historically, you didn't make war in the winter, because it was impractical. If certain times of year are more conducive to adventuring, the signs that come up at that time of year will be more attractive than the signs that tend to come up when you're socked in for the winter.

 

Turning this around, it may influence the types of spells developed. Spells that extend food or create warmth are much more valuable in winter than in summer, while combat spells would be more logically developed by signs that show up when warfare is most likely.

 

From the player's perspective, I would not be too thrilled about buying identical powers 12 times with the Window of Opportunity limitation at -2 3/4. Assuming no other limitations, that means spending over 120 points for a 40 point power. That seems to suggest players should focus on just one, or a few, signs and try to restrict their adventuring to those periods.

[mayapuppies]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

 

For Totemic Shamanism, its free Beast Speech w/ Animals of any type the Shaman has a complete Totem set of FAMs for, plus they are specifically allowed to buy Multiform to assume the form of any Animal they have a full Totem for, and also permission to beef up any follower Animal Companions of a type the Shaman has a complete Totem for with special abilities. So, a freebie power and a couple of unlocks.

You could do something similar for your zodiac concept -- just associate a trait w/ a zodiac sign and an Astrolomancer that masters a zodiac sign can use a relevant ability. This special should work even when the sign isnt in phase to counterbalance the narrow Windows of Opportunity in effect for this model.

I've always loved your Totemic Shaman stuff and may need to re-read it again for inspiration.

[mayapuppies]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

How will the astrological signs dovetail with the campaign climate? Historically, you didn't make war in the winter, because it was impractical. If certain times of year are more conducive to adventuring, the signs that come up at that time of year will be more attractive than the signs that tend to come up when you're socked in for the winter.

 

Turning this around, it may influence the types of spells developed. Spells that extend food or create warmth are much more valuable in winter than in summer, while combat spells would be more logically developed by signs that show up when warfare is most likely.

Odds are they won't have any direct link to the 'climate', assuming here that you literally mean weather and such. Just like our worlds zodiac, there is little relation to the seasons.

 

From the player's perspective, I would not be too thrilled about buying identical powers 12 times with the Window of Opportunity limitation at -2 3/4. Assuming no other limitations, that means spending over 120 points for a 40 point power. That seems to suggest players should focus on just one, or a few, signs and try to restrict their adventuring to those periods.

Identical powers will be impossible as each sign will only have access to certain HERO System Powers. Much like how KS's Aeldenari system (http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/MagicSystems/AeldenarenSystem.aspx) utilizes 'Gifts' in this method.

 

For example:

The Gift of Affecting allows access to the following powers:

Aid

Drain

Healing

Succor

Transfer

 

Thus, the player will only be able to develop spells that are based on those powers.

 

And so it will be with my system, in that each sign will operate in a similar manner, but, only be available during that signs respecive month.

[Lucius]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

Perhaps I’m not understanding, but you seem to be contradicting yourself.

 

Hello all,

 

I am currently working on an astrologically based magic system to where the 'Astrologer' develops a set of powers based on the zodiac of my game world. Each 'Astrologer' is capable of developing all 12 sets.

 

Each set will be a multipower framework (i.e. Leo Abilities, Cancer Abilities, etc.) and each zodiac will have access to only certain powers (e.g. Leo has access to HKA, Leaping, Senses and Cancer has access to Armor, Damage Resistance, etc.). Similar to the way Killershrikes Aeldenari magic system is developed.

 

Now, each zodiacs multipower will only be available when that particular memeber of the zodiac is ascendant. So all of Leo's abilities are only available when the world is in Leo, for example.

 

Long story I know. But how much of a limitation would say that last bit would be worth? I mean these powers are only available for 1 month of thhe year, but at the same time the 'Astrologer' is capable of developing all 12 power sets...

 

Well, first of all, each sign is actually in the ascendant for about 2 hrs out of a 24 hr day. I think what you mean is, “while the Sun is in that sign.” When people who know nothing about astrology ask “Hey baby, what’s your sign?” that’s what they’re talking about – the sun sign.

 

So when you say “1 month of the year” I’m thinking you mean sun sign.

 

But

 

Odds are they won't have any direct link to the 'climate', assuming here that you literally mean weather and such. Just like our worlds zodiac, there is little relation to the seasons.

 

Uh….I don’t get it. Because in the same POST you say

 

 

 

And so it will be with my system, in that each sign will operate in a similar manner, but, only be available during that signs respecive month.

 

Mayapuppies, assuming your campaign takes place in a temperate climate, and assuming that you are planning to have these sets of powers linked to specific sun signs, then the powersets are inevitably and inextricably linked with the seasons – unless your world works in ways totally different from this one.

 

In other words, if you say “this powerset is usable in July” then it follows that it will be available in summer and NEVER available in spring, fall, or winter – unless, in your world, the month of July can somehow fall in winter.

 

Maybe you should go back to what you originally said – ascendant. Then the power can be used for a 2 hr window each day, and that window actually migrates around the clock – if you can do it at noon in high summer, you’ll be doing it at midnight in winter, because that’s how the ascendants work.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is still stunned by the statement “ Just like our worlds zodiac, there is little relation to the seasons” …. And starts to wonder what world mayapuppies lives in.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

Well hang on Lucius. Not everyone is really invested in the signs and their function outside of "Hmm... I'm a 69. COOOOL..." I think I know what Mayapuppies is getting at. I just don't think it makes a lot of sense, but for different reasons.

 

See, part of what the Palindromedary is driving at is correct; we live in a cyclical world, and while it may take far more time to develop, I think that what you actually want is a "full power" section (the month that the sign is aligned with) and possibly a lock out month (where the sign has no power, it's opposite) and then grade power accordingly throughout the rest of the period. i.e., in the month of the sign, it operates at full power + -10% Real Cost, +10% Effect. And in its flanking months, operates normally, and so on.

 

Otherwise, everyone will always know what you can do in any given month. There'll be very little depth of strategy to combat one of these casters. "Hey, this is what, July 7th? That's Cancer, right? Go ahead and prepare [this, this and this] to avoid him cheesing us off."

 

You may want to delve deeper into the system as well. FREX, there are 3 signs for each element; my sign, Cancer, is Water. Part of our whole bit is being very emotional (downer) but natural healers and caretakers (upper!). Most signs will reveal a standard dichotomy of this nature; each one's mythology has its own strengths and weaknesses. You could, frex, take any of the spells KS or I wrote from d20, reassign them to elemental slots AND to Zodiac slots; you can also do "only these signs" regardless of element.

 

I think with a little more work you could have something really cool, but the basic outline needs fleshed out. My pair of coppers.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

I think what mayapuppies means by zodiac <> climate is that while a certain sign is up in the fall, that doesnt mean the attributes associated with it have anything to do with being between summer and winter, for instance.

 

It sounds like he wants to go for symbolic qualities, not powers associated with seasons / weather / climate.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

Odds are they won't have any direct link to the 'climate'' date=' assuming here that you literally mean weather and such. Just like our worlds zodiac, there is little relation to the seasons.[/quote']

 

As other have surmised, and I apologize for not being clear, I don't mean what relation will the spells granted by each sign have to the climate, but how will the choice of sign have campaign effects dictated by the weather?

 

I'm a Capricorn (born Jan 15). Picking that sign means I'll have powers for part of December and part of January (Dec 22 - Jan 19). In a very middle ages accurate world, we'll be spending that time hunkered down waiting out the winter. You simply did not make war in the winter - you waited out the winter, ransported your armies and equipment in the spring, battled in the summer, and moved your armies and equipment back in the fall to hunker down for the winter.

 

If your game has similar seasons, and similar issues, selecting a sign whose spels are useful in spring and picking travelling spells (Taurus; April 21 - May 20), or combat spells from a sign usable in the summer (Cancer; June 21 - July 22), would be far more useful than combat spells only useful in the winter.

[mayapuppies]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

I think what mayapuppies means by zodiac <> climate is that while a certain sign is up in the fall, that doesnt mean the attributes associated with it have anything to do with being between summer and winter, for instance.

 

It sounds like he wants to go for symbolic qualities, not powers associated with seasons / weather / climate.

 

Exactly

 

As a Cancer, I really have no effect on Summer, Rainy days, sunny days, or any weather or climate phenomena. Although I can cook and make people comfy in my home.

[mayapuppies]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

As other have surmised, and I apologize for not being clear, I don't mean what relation will the spells granted by each sign have to the climate, but how will the choice of sign have campaign effects dictated by the weather?

 

I'm a Capricorn (born Jan 15). Picking that sign means I'll have powers for part of December and part of January (Dec 22 - Jan 19). In a very middle ages accurate world, we'll be spending that time hunkered down waiting out the winter. You simply did not make war in the winter - you waited out the winter, ransported your armies and equipment in the spring, battled in the summer, and moved your armies and equipment back in the fall to hunker down for the winter.

 

If your game has similar seasons, and similar issues, selecting a sign whose spels are useful in spring and picking travelling spells (Taurus; April 21 - May 20), or combat spells from a sign usable in the summer (Cancer; June 21 - July 22), would be far more useful than combat spells only useful in the winter.

Well, the world is similar to earth, so the seasons and such remain the same. However, the 'package' I'm developing is mostly geared towards the Fantasy genre standard that PC's and other individuals do not adhere to what nations and 'common' folk adhere to, thus it's a non-issue.

 

In addition, the signs that the character learns and develops dictate the powers available. The player does not dictate the powers he wants and then arbitrarily assigns them to a sign.

[mayapuppies]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

Perhaps I’m not understanding, but you seem to be contradicting yourself.

 

 

 

Well, first of all, each sign is actually in the ascendant for about 2 hrs out of a 24 hr day. I think what you mean is, “while the Sun is in that sign.” When people who know nothing about astrology ask “Hey baby, what’s your sign?” that’s what they’re talking about – the sun sign.

 

So when you say “1 month of the year” I’m thinking you mean sun sign.

Correct. My wife would kill me if she knew I was using the wrong terminology.

[mayapuppies]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

Well hang on Lucius. Not everyone is really invested in the signs and their function outside of "Hmm... I'm a 69. COOOOL..." I think I know what Mayapuppies is getting at. I just don't think it makes a lot of sense, but for different reasons.

 

See, part of what the Palindromedary is driving at is correct; we live in a cyclical world, and while it may take far more time to develop, I think that what you actually want is a "full power" section (the month that the sign is aligned with) and possibly a lock out month (where the sign has no power, it's opposite) and then grade power accordingly throughout the rest of the period. i.e., in the month of the sign, it operates at full power + -10% Real Cost, +10% Effect. And in its flanking months, operates normally, and so on.

 

Otherwise, everyone will always know what you can do in any given month. There'll be very little depth of strategy to combat one of these casters. "Hey, this is what, July 7th? That's Cancer, right? Go ahead and prepare [this, this and this] to avoid him cheesing us off."

 

You may want to delve deeper into the system as well. FREX, there are 3 signs for each element; my sign, Cancer, is Water. Part of our whole bit is being very emotional (downer) but natural healers and caretakers (upper!). Most signs will reveal a standard dichotomy of this nature; each one's mythology has its own strengths and weaknesses. You could, frex, take any of the spells KS or I wrote from d20, reassign them to elemental slots AND to Zodiac slots; you can also do "only these signs" regardless of element.

 

I think with a little more work you could have something really cool, but the basic outline needs fleshed out. My pair of coppers.

Hello fellow Cancer.

 

This is way too involved for me...odd, hearing that come from me. I'm trying to simplify my designs a lot more, and I despise you () for tempting me with complicated rulesets...

[Thia Halmades]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

Hello fellow Cancer.

 

This is way too involved for me...odd, hearing that come from me. I'm trying to simplify my designs a lot more, and I despise you () for tempting me with complicated rulesets...

 

What? My way makes far more sense. No one's afraid of a caster they can anticipate with no effort. And it's not THAT complicated. A little spit here, polish there, boom boom. Done.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

Lets start over.

 

What are the signs of your zodiac and what are their characteristics / symbolic relevance?

[mayapuppies]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

What? My way makes far more sense. No one's afraid of a caster they can anticipate with no effort. And it's not THAT complicated. A little spit here' date=' polish there, boom boom. Done.[/quote']

If I had the type of players I could trust to actually keep track of the record keeping...then yeah, I'd probably go with it. As it is I'm having a hard enough time with them actually looking at their charactersheet, let alone reading it.

[mayapuppies]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

Lets start over.

 

What are the signs of your zodiac and what are their characteristics / symbolic relevance?

 

Yeah, well, um about that...I haven't actually had the time to get that all written out just yet.

 

Was hoping to have the background stuff fleshed out by this weekend.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

If I had the type of players I could trust to actually keep track of the record keeping...then yeah' date=' I'd probably go with it. As it is I'm having a hard enough time with them actually looking at their charactersheet, let alone reading it. [/quote']

 

Well, KS has the right of it; what are you trying to accomplish? Something like this -- a Zodiac system, especially if you take the extra step of finding out what each character's sign is -- will go a long way towards immersing them in the system. Caring about a sheet is hard. Caring about a character is easy.

[mayapuppies]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

The basics of the zodiac are like this:

 

The calendar for this region of the game world is based on the seasons. Each month is a specific season of 120 days.

 

The New Year begins on the Spring Solstice.

 

Each 'month' begins and ends at the respective solstice (give or take a bit).

 

There is a 5 day period between the winter and spring solstice that is "out of time" and considered a dark and threatening time much like Halloween is considered (or was considered) here on earth, where the barrier between the spirit world and "reality" is much much thinner.

 

All 12 members of the Zodiac are grouped into 4 Trines. Trine 1 being opposite of Trine 3 and the same with 2 and 4. Each Trine consists of 3 related signs.

 

I have yet to establish the specifics of each sign as this is a relatively new area of exploration for me with this game world.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: How Much of a Limitation

 

Okay, here are the core ideas I was fiddling with:

 

* 12 Signs, each individual is born under a sign giving them an automatic affinity to one type of magic, and an automatic weakness to its countersign. Additionally, you may not get the same benefits from certain magic; I would just use the Spell (-1/2) limitation to represent it. i.e., Spell (Scorpio, Water) and by advent of being a Water spell, those who have a Fire profile (Water Spells lose 25% of their effectiveness) is rolled in automatically.

 

* Magic is based on the signs, and comes in two basic flavors; elemental (open to the 3 corresponding signs of the element in question) and Signature, spells/powers that can only be learned by those born under the correct sign. Frex, any Water caster might learn a 'Calm Emotions' Spell, but only Cancers would know advanced healing magic, and Scorpios (not saying they're water, as I don't recall, but) would have access to specific Poison magics the other 11 don't get.

 

* Someone will want to be born on a Cusp, which is fine; being a Cusp child is a +5 Perk, and opens you up to two signs, but makes you vulnerable to two countersigns. It also means you may lose additional benefits; if your signs are Fire & Water, you'll lose some benefits you would otherwise gain from being a traditional sign.

 

* Package deals abound, as each sign has certain things they lean towards; you could easily come up with two or three PDs per sign, so you'll have plenty of variety (not counting anything the players come up with on their own, natch).

 

* And attacks from people counter-signed to you (which is likely more paperwork than it's worth) are more effective.

 

* Lastly, you could probably work in additional perks, "Can Learn Elemental Magic of X type," or buy off your weakness to an element, because it's HERO and nothing stays static for long. So a very powerful caster (or warrior) may have bought off their weaknesses to certain element types, making them that much nastier.