archermoo Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge Thanks, Derek, no wonder full move dodge is less popular than the clap. So, for 5 points you are immune to HTH? House rule all the way. Not entirely immune, but able to avoid it frequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibear Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge Not entirely immune' date=' but able to avoid it frequently.[/quote'] No, not immune, only in danger the phase he acts. Is it any wonder no-one thinks it's balanced? I'll be sticking to my initial gut feeling. Thanks to all for helping me to see what's what here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge Characters with high Movement values (and especially if they also have a high SPD) can remain nearly unreachable in combat against foes who lack ranged attacks. They can attack and retreat with near-impunity. Technically, so can any character with a Ranged attack, and chances are they spent about as much on their EB (or whatever) and the martial artist did on Passing Strike and Running (or whatever). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge "I'll abort to Flying Dodge and make my 25" half move to there" seems rife with potential for abuse. So does anyone with a 25" half move. That's a 50" full move (a 100 active point power for Running, Teleport and Flight) and who knows how much NCM the character has... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge No reason to limit yourself to a 1/2 move. Unless I'm mistaken, you can only abort a Flying Dodge to a half move. You can only perform the full move if you perform a full phase action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge Technically' date=' so can any character with a Ranged attack, and chances are they spent about as much on their EB (or whatever) and the martial artist did on Passing Strike and Running (or whatever).[/quote']But the Ranged Attack's only use is in attacking at range. The Movement is useful for other things in addition to attacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge Unless I'm mistaken' date=' you can only abort a Flying Dodge to a half move.[/quote']You're mistaken. Per the rules FAQ, you still get a Full Move worth of Movement with a Flying Dodge, even if you Abort to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge You're mistaken. Per the rules FAQ' date=' you still get a Full Move worth of Movement with a Flying Dodge, even if you Abort to it.[/quote'] Look at it like this, DR: Normally, you abort to [Defensive Action]. As part of your Abort, you've taken up your entire next Phase (you abort on 6 to 8, frex). Instead of now just having "+3 DCV" (everyman Dodge) or "+5 DCV" (martial dodge) as part of the abort, you also get the movement you would have gotten in that phase. You've still aborted, you still don't get to go on 8 (you must wait until 12), but part of the maneuver is to give you the movement you would have otherwise lost. Make more sense that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge So does anyone with a 25" half move. That's a 50" full move (a 100 active point power for Running' date=' Teleport and Flight) and who knows how much NCM the character has...[/quote'] You're mistaken. Per the rules FAQ' date=' you still get a Full Move worth of Movement with a Flying Dodge, even if you Abort to it.[/quote'] Oh, I only need a 25" full move (=19" running for a 38 point power). Sounds good. Say, why don't I make a ranged attacker and toss +30" running, or 30" Flight, in my Multipower? I don't need my EB in phases when I Flying Dodge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Schultz Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge Are you and I reading the same FAQ entry' date=' or am I just misunderstanding you? [/quote'] No, I just phrased my response extremely poorly. "Looks like that's true for melee, but not for ranged" was referring to the end result of a flying dodge: it takes you out of HtH combat, but doesn't take you out of ranged combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Schultz Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge Say, why don't I make a ranged attacker and toss +30" running, or 30" Flight, in my Multipower? I don't need my EB in phases when I Flying Dodge. Hm... I think it's because shifting a multipower is a 0-phase action, and as such you can't abort to it along with a Flying Dodge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge No' date=' I just phrased my response extremely poorly. "Looks like that's true for melee, but not for ranged" was referring to the end result of a flying dodge: it takes you out of HtH combat, but doesn't take you out of ranged combat.[/quote'] Ah, that makes much more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge Hm... I think it's because shifting a multipower is a 0-phase action' date=' and as such you can't abort to it along with a Flying Dodge.[/quote'] The rules for Aborting specifically allow for the shifting of points in Power Frameworks. The rules also specifically allow for the performance of more than one Defensive Action during an Abort, as long as they are not mutually exclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge The rules for Aborting specifically allow for the shifting of points in Power Frameworks. The rules also specifically allow for the performance of more than one Defensive Action during an Abort' date=' as long as they are not mutually exclusive.[/quote'] So I can Dodge AND raise a Force Field? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge So I can Dodge AND raise a Force Field? Yes. Darren has voiced the opinion that you could even abort to throw a force wall between an attacker and his target, on the basis that it's a defensive action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge Yes. Darren has voiced the opinion that you could even abort to throw a force wall between an attacker and his target, on the basis that it's a defensive action. Certainly if that target is you. It requires Ref permission if the target is someone else, as by default you are only allowed to protect yourself with an Abort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge Certainly if that target is you. It requires Ref permission if the target is someone else' date=' as by default you are only allowed to protect yourself with an Abort.[/quote'] I thought you could officially Abort to a Dive for Cover to interpose yourself between an attacker and his target? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge I thought you could officially Abort to a Dive for Cover to interpose yourself between an attacker and his target? According to 5ER p362 last paragraph of the first column, that is only true if you have Ref's permission. That is even one of the specific examples of things that you could do if the Ref gives the okay to Abort to protect others. Of course the last paragraph of the Abort section also specifically spells out that exactly what someone can do when Aborting (or even whether they are allowed to do so) is always at the Ref's descretion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge According to 5ER p362 last paragraph of the first column, that is only true if you have Ref's permission. That is even one of the specific examples of things that you could do if the Ref gives the okay to Abort to protect others. Of course the last paragraph of the Abort section also specifically spells out that exactly what someone can do when Aborting (or even whether they are allowed to do so) is always at the Ref's descretion. That sneaky With the GM's Permission clause; Darn Steve for expecting gamers to take the responsibility of tailoring the rules to their personal tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge That sneaky With the GM's Permission clause; Darn Steve for expecting gamers to take the responsibility of tailoring the rules to their personal tastes. Seriously. If I wanted to think about the rules I'd play HERO or something... Wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge That sneaky With the GM's Permission clause; Darn Steve for expecting gamers to take the responsibility of tailoring the rules to their personal tastes. OTOH I don't know that I've ever seen a Ref say "No" when someone wanted to Abort to protect someone else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge OTOH I don't know that I've ever seen a Ref say "No" when someone wanted to Abort to protect someone else... I certainly haven't; risking yourself to protect innocent people is pretty much my definition of "Hero". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge I certainly haven't; risking yourself to protect innocent people is pretty much my definition of "Hero". Mine too, for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonio Posted December 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge Hm, Aborting to DFC to protect others... Would you allow it if the Aborting character had high defenses and Absorption, with an AoE EB, no range, Triggered "when damage is absorbed"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Markov Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Re: Flying Dodge OTOH I don't know that I've ever seen a Ref say "No" when someone wanted to Abort to protect someone else... I would....but that's just to show how bad a person I am ! Evil rules! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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