Flying Dodge

[Dust Raven]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

P 93 of UMA. Specifically the second column' date=' first paragraph. Starting with "Attacks built with this Element do not automatically have to take place at the very end of a character's move."[/quote']

Cool, thanks.

[Alibear]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

Glad to see I've been doing right all this time.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

Why at the end of a full move? Why can't you run by someone, clobber him, and move on with 'a passing strike', if you have the movement left?

 

Am I missing something blatantly obvious?

No. By the rules, you can do this. I'm just personally extremely leery of it. I've seen characters who could greatly abuse Passing Strikes this way, and even moreso Flying Dodge (if you allow Aborting to it to include the Movement).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

No. By the rules' date=' you [b']can[/b] do this. I'm just personally extremely leery of it. I've seen characters who could greatly abuse Passing Strikes this way, and even moreso Flying Dodge (if you allow Aborting to it to include the Movement).

 

Which in another thread is precisely what ArcherMoo said that it did, and that just sounds twelve different kinds of broken to me. I have a PC who took it, and it still leaves us scratching our heads; especially the part where it says it's a half-phase.

[Alibear]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

No. By the rules' date=' you [b']can[/b] do this. I'm just personally extremely leery of it. I've seen characters who could greatly abuse Passing Strikes this way, and even moreso Flying Dodge (if you allow Aborting to it to include the Movement).

 

Really? I haven't seen anyone abuse either of them yet. What are your experiences with it?

[archermoo]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

Which in another thread is precisely what ArcherMoo said that it did' date=' and that just sounds twelve different kinds of broken to me. I have a PC who took it, and it still leaves us scratching our heads; especially the part where it says it's a half-phase.[/quote']

 

The reason it is listed as a half-phase action is because you don't HAVE to use it with a Full Move. You just CAN use it with a Full Move. You can also use it with a Half Move.

 

Flying Dodge and Passing Strike are both noted as being potentially abusable powers that need to be watched by the Ref. Personally, while I'd let someone abort to Flying Dodge, and even use the movement portion of it, the movement would take place AFTER whatever attack they are aborting to avoid. Not before. They'd still get the +4DCV for the Dodge portion of it before the attack, but they wouldn't be able to move away. But that is just my take on it, and certainly not the "official" stance.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

Really? I haven't seen anyone abuse either of them yet. What are your experiences with it?

Characters with high Movement values (and especially if they also have a high SPD) can remain nearly unreachable in combat against foes who lack ranged attacks. They can attack and retreat with near-impunity.

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

Flying Dodge and Passing Strike are both noted as being potentially abusable powers that need to be watched by the Ref. Personally' date=' while I'd let someone abort to Flying Dodge, and even use the movement portion of it, the movement would take place AFTER whatever attack they are aborting to avoid. Not before. They'd still get the +4DCV for the Dodge portion of it before the attack, but they wouldn't be able to move away. But that is just my take on it, and certainly not the "official" stance.[/quote']

 

 

Really? I was the impression that WAS the official stance: that you get the bonus and the move, but your opponent still gets a roll to hit.

 

EDIT - from the FAQ, under "Flying Dodge": looks like that's true for melee, but not for ranged, which I wasn't aware of. I guess THAT's why it has the potential for abuse...

 

Does Flying Dodge work like “Martial Dive For Cover”?

 

No. Flying Dodge functions differently — it doesn’t require a DEX Roll, render a character “prone,” or the like.

 

If a character with Flying Dodge moves out of the way of an area-affecting attack, compare the inches moved to where the attack hits (typically the hex the character was formerly standing in) and the attack’s size — it’s possible that, as with a Dive For Cover, the character’s movement didn’t carry him far enough to get out of the way. If the Flying Dodge’s movement carries him beyond the area covered by the Area Of Effect/Explosion, then the attack doesn’t affect him.

 

If a character uses Flying Dodge to try to avoid a ranged non-area-affecting attack, he still gets to move and still gets a DCV bonus from the maneuver, but he’s not automatically missed — the attacker still gets a roll to hit (unlike with Dive For Cover, where the attack would automatically miss). If it’s a HTH attack, the Attack Roll is irrelevant, since the character won’t be in HTH combat range any longer.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

"I'll abort to Flying Dodge and make my 25" half move to there" seems rife with potential for abuse.

[archermoo]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

Really? I was the impression that WAS the official stance: that you get the bonus and the move, but your opponent still gets a roll to hit.

 

EDIT - from the FAQ, under "Flying Dodge": looks like that's true for melee, but not for ranged, which I wasn't aware of. I guess THAT's why it has the potential for abuse...

 

Are you and I reading the same FAQ entry, or am I just misunderstanding you? The last line explicitely states that making an Attack Roll for HtH against someone using Flying Dodge is pointless, as they are no longer in HtH range. You CAN still attack them via Ranged attacks, but not via HtH. Other FAQ entries make it even clearer that the attack comes after they move. Specifically one that states that the range you use for a Ranged Attack is the range to them after they move.

 

So my take on it is pretty much the opposite of the official stance. Not sure exactly what I'd do with Flying Dodge vs. AoE, as it has never come up. Probably give them a Dive vs. Cover like roll to see if they move far enough in time.

[archermoo]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

"I'll abort to Flying Dodge and make my 25" half move to there" seems rife with potential for abuse.

 

No reason to limit yourself to a 1/2 move.

[Sweeper]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

Oh, so this isn't a thread about The General Lee or a new version of Chitty Chitty Bang, Bang?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

AUGH. I'm still confused. Okay.

 

Here's the first question: By RAW, can I take a half-move and then execute Flying Dodge and take a Full Move and my +4 DCV? Or am I restricted to a half-move so I don't suddenly travel 1.5x faster than normal?

 

Second Question: I think I get this. If you abort to Flying Dodge, then you:

 

1) Are automatically out of HtH range; all attacks are resolved AFTER you have moved

2) You can still get shot, but at the new Range modifier

3) This effectively replaced Dive for Cover for anyone who has it, because it doesn't require a DEX roll and they can reasonably cover enough distance to get out of range and/or behind cover, since you have a Full Move nothing says you can't do that.

 

This still smacks of broken to me. I'm not saying it is. I'm saying it certainly FEELS like it is. I'll have to see it in play.

[archermoo]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

AUGH. I'm still confused. Okay.

 

Here's the first question: By RAW, can I take a half-move and then execute Flying Dodge and take a Full Move and my +4 DCV? Or am I restricted to a half-move so I don't suddenly travel 1.5x faster than normal?

 

Flying Dodge allows you to perform UP TO a full move with it, depending on how much movement you have available to you when you perform it. It is basically a Dodge that also allows you to move while performing it. If you have a full Phase when you perform it, you can make up to a full move. If you only have a half Phase, you can only make a half move.

 

Second Question: I think I get this. If you abort to Flying Dodge, then you:

 

1) Are automatically out of HtH range; all attacks are resolved AFTER you have moved

2) You can still get shot, but at the new Range modifier

3) This effectively replaced Dive for Cover for anyone who has it, because it doesn't require a DEX roll and they can reasonably cover enough distance to get out of range and/or behind cover, since you have a Full Move nothing says you can't do that.

 

This still smacks of broken to me. I'm not saying it is. I'm saying it certainly FEELS like it is. I'll have to see it in play.

 

That is indeed how it works, to the best of my understanding.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

Flying Dodge allows you to perform UP TO a full move with it' date=' depending on how much movement you have available to you when you perform it. It is basically a Dodge that also allows you to move while performing it. If you have a full Phase when you perform it, you can make up to a full move. If you only have a half Phase, you can only make a half move.[/quote']

 

Okay, then it is exactly as "broken" as I originally thought. Groovy, thanks AM, I think I finally get it now. Ack. Not my day.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

2) You can still get shot, but at the new Range modifier

 

There is also the fact you might have flying Dodged around a corner and they cannot shoot you. That isn't uncommon in games I've been in.

 

Fits the cinematic shctick of the hero moving from one point of cover to another and never getting hit - he's aborting to his flying dodge.

[archermoo]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

There is also the fact you might have flying Dodged around a corner and they cannot shoot you. That isn't uncommon in games I've been in.

 

Fits the cinematic shctick of the hero moving from one point of cover to another and never getting hit - he's aborting to his flying dodge.

 

Or just using it. No need to abort if you've got an action.

[Alibear]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

I resolve attacks before the character really moves away.

 

 

Bloke A attacks.

 

Bloke B Full Move Dodges and gets +4 dcv.

 

Bloke A rolls a 5 and clobbers Bloke B before he has a chance to clear the hex.

 

Bloke B is stunned and wondering why he didn't dive for cover?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

I resolve attacks before the character really moves away.

 

 

Bloke A attacks.

 

Bloke B Full Move Dodges and gets +4 dcv.

 

Bloke A rolls a 5 and clobbers Bloke B before he has a chance to clear the hex.

 

Bloke B is stunned and wondering why he didn't dive for cover?

That house rule certainly lessens Flying Dodge's potential for abuse.

[Alibear]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

Is that a house rule? It just doesn't make sense to me any other way.

 

As Steve says himself, we've bought the game, we can use it any way we see fit.

[Alibear]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

 

1) Are automatically out of HtH range; all attacks are resolved AFTER you have moved

 

Really? Pfft, that makes no kind o' sense.

 

Is there a page number for this?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

Is that a house rule?

Yep.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

Is there a page number for this?

It's in the rules FAQ. Kevin Schulz already cited it, in post #33 above.

[archermoo]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

Is that a house rule? It just doesn't make sense to me any other way.

 

As Steve says himself, we've bought the game, we can use it any way we see fit.

 

Really? Pfft, that makes no kind o' sense.

 

Is there a page number for this?

 

It was clarified by Steve in the rules FAQ. The specific ruling has been quoted at least once in this thread.

[Alibear]

Re: Flying Dodge

 

Thanks, Derek, no wonder full move dodge is less popular than the clap.

 

So, for 5 points you are immune to HTH?

 

House rule all the way.