Hitting or attacking Endurance

[Doc]

Hi,

 

Is there any way to 'hit' END without lowering its total value? It would be like a tireing power.

 

I wouldn't use a drain, as it affects only the total points of END, and not the current points (unless there are some modifiers I didn't understand well...). I want the attack to lower the END for it to return a the rate of normal REC.

 

I hope it's clear...

 

Thank you very much.

[Tonio]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

I thought that's what END Drain or Suppress did... although I haven't checked recently. (That is, haven't checked in a couple of editions, they might've changed it!)

[Comic]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

Use Drain with a limitation?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

Use Drain with a limitation?

 

Sounds good to me.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

If I catch the drift... what you have is a Drain; Points Return Per Month; Uses Characters REC Rate.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

If I catch the drift... what you have is a Drain; Points Return Per Month; Uses Characters REC Rate.

 

... why per month?

 

I was thinking END Drain, Limitation: Drained points can be recovered normally. Maybe make it per minute so the additional 5 points per turn don't add to the recoveries.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

... why per month?

 

I was thinking END Drain, Limitation: Drained points can be recovered normally. Maybe make it per minute so the additional 5 points per turn don't add to the recoveries.

 

Because normally Drained Powers recover in 1 Turn. The OP wants to expand that to a Month - that's an Advantage.

 

But the OP also wants them to return at the Targets REC Rate/Month, not 5 Points. Assuming most Characters have more than 5 REC (reasonable assumption) - that's a Limitation.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

Because normally Drained Powers recover in 1 Turn. The OP wants to expand that to a Month - that's an Advantage.

 

But the OP also wants them to return at the Targets REC Rate/Month, not 5 Points. Assuming most Characters have more than 5 REC (reasonable assumption) - that's a Limitation.

 

That's not the way I'm reading it; I was reading it that the END points could be recovered normally, not slowly returning at a per turn/other time unit rate. "I want the attack to lower the END for it to return a the rate of normal REC." Basically, from what I'm reading of (or perhaps into) the request, the END points are lowered exactly as if they had been spent by the character (for powers or whatnot) and recover exactly as they would normally (by taking Recoveries).

[flyco]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

If they had expended by the character, I think I would be nothing to say, because it usually excluded from the right outside.

[Checkmate]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

If they had expended by the character' date=' I think I would be nothing to say, because it usually excluded from the right outside.[/quote']

Err yeah what he said

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

Is there any way to 'hit' END without lowering its total value? It would be like a tireing power.

 

I was thinking of imposing a power on someone that was always on and cost 3xEND or more - something like images with no range and a fixed effect - so the person would glow like faerie fire and lose END hand over fist....

 

Not sure how I would accomplish it though - transform to bestow a power?

 

Possibly even twisting the naked advantage to a naked limitation where you make their own powers cost more END. So something like x4 END, usable against others? It requires some twisting of the head to get there but it is a definite tiring power....

 

 

Doc

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

That's not the way I'm reading it; I was reading it that the END points could be recovered normally' date=' not slowly returning at a per turn/other time unit rate. "I want the attack to lower the END for it to return a the rate of normal REC." Basically, from what I'm reading of (or perhaps into) the request, the END points are lowered exactly as if they had been spent by the character (for powers or whatnot) and recover exactly as they would normally (by taking Recoveries).[/quote']

 

Instead of the Adjustment Power route we could go 1 step further with the -0 Stun Only EB. Make it -0 END Only instead. It's not as crazy as it first seems imo since a character with 0 END will be burning Stun in place of END anyway. Build a EB with this Limitation and the target gets their normal ED (or PD depending on sfx) but takes END instead of Stun.

 

Then the question becomes whether it's imbalanced or not to take x2 what is actually rolled on the dice or exceeds defenses.

[Alibear]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

If they had expended by the character' date=' I think I would be nothing to say, because it usually excluded from the right outside.[/quote']

 

 

Okay. I'm confused.

 

I think you want to drain the character's ability to take recoveries?

So, if somone expends their endurance it won't come back faster than their recovery per month, not per turn.

 

Is that correct?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

That's not the way I'm reading it; I was reading it that the END points could be recovered normally' date=' not slowly returning at a per turn/other time unit rate. "I want the attack to lower the END for it to return a the rate of normal REC." Basically, from what I'm reading of (or perhaps into) the request, the END points are lowered exactly as if they had been spent by the character (for powers or whatnot) and recover exactly as they would normally (by taking Recoveries).[/quote']

 

. . . yeah, it does. I'm not sure what I read. Don't post tired folx.

[Doc]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

That's not the way I'm reading it; I was reading it that the END points could be recovered normally' date=' not slowly returning at a per turn/other time unit rate. "I want the attack to lower the END for it to return a the rate of normal REC." Basically, from what I'm reading of (or perhaps into) the request, the END points are lowered exactly as if they had been spent by the character (for powers or whatnot) and recover exactly as they would normally (by taking Recoveries).[/quote']

 

Sorry for the confusion. Crosshair Collie is right; I just wanted to 'drain' END as it had been used by the character for him to be able to recover it normally at post segment 12 or by taking recoveries in a phase.

 

It sounds like an attack that 'hit' at END instead of stun.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

Not straightforward, because, even if you limit a drain (-1/4 recovers at target REC, not 5/turn, -0 in a heroic campaign), you wind up with the weird and wonderful rules about how you recover adjusted characteristics.

 

Personally, I'd go with a custom limitation: damage to END rather than STUN -0

 

With apologies to Hyper Man, who'd already made this suggestion: I really must read these threads through before posting

[Tonio]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

I don't get it... why isn't this just a regular END Drain? Is there a rule that you can't Recover END lost to Drains?

 

(Note that the tone of this post is not sarcastic, even if it might seem to be!)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

I don't get it... why isn't this just a regular END Drain? Is there a rule that you can't Recover END lost to Drains?

 

(Note that the tone of this post is not sarcastic, even if it might seem to be!)

 

Tonio: Effectively, the Drain drains maximum END, so your REC would normally be irrelevant.

 

Overall: I would note that the Drain normally results in 5 CP, which is 10 END, being recovered per turn. The presumption that most people would recover from this attack faster because they likely have more than 5 REC is erroneous.

 

I would note that a power such as this, where the END is recovered normally, differs from a standard END drain as follows:

 

- REC instead of 5/turn, of course (Advantage: depends on typical REC scores).

- recovery of the drained END is no longer added to regular recovery of END used (advantage: Drain)

- the drained END can be recovered more than once per turn if the target chooses to take recoveries (Disadvantage: Drain)

 

Weighing these against one another, I would be inclined to treat the switch as a -0 advantage. The faster potential recovery is offset by the accumulation with END used. The REC level is, thinking on it, something of a red herring in that games with higher REC typically also see higher levels of END usage, so these will trade off and not really impact the combat efficiency of the drain.

[Tonio]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

Tonio: Effectively' date=' the Drain drains maximum END, so your REC would normally be irrelevant.[/quote']

 

That's what I gathered from the posts... but I haven't seen a rule that says this. Is it in the FAQ? Is it "what's generally understood"? And how does this interact with END Drains when your END isn't at max? Does only your max get drained, or both max and current?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

That's what I gathered from the posts... but I haven't seen a rule that says this. Is it in the FAQ? Is it "what's generally understood"? And how does this interact with END Drains when your END isn't at max? Does only your max get drained' date=' or both max and current?[/quote']

 

Both max and current. I don't have the book with me - maybe someone else can provide page references.

[Tech]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

My suggestions are:

 

a) Drain vs END, only up to half of total END, recover 5 pts/minute

 

Transformation: all powers cost x2 or x3 END

 

c) Drain vs All Power Advantages "Reduced END" so all powers cost full END cost.

I don't know if that's a legit build but if the GM agrees, go for it.

 

d) Suppress vs END

[Sean Waters]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

I've seen this a couple of times now and I'm slightly confused. Probably because I've never thought it through before.

 

The Living Battery has 50 END when fully rested, but has been exerting himself and is down to 25.

 

He gets hit by a Drain END , and loses 10 character points worth (20 END).

 

Is he down to 5 END, or is he still on 25 END but with a maximum of 30?

 

We've always kept seperate track of drained and used END, when it has come up, so in th above example, he would have 25 used END and 20 drained END, and would have 5 END left: he gets the 25 points back at REC/turn and the 20 back at 5cps (10 END)/turn.

 

Is that wrong then?

[Doc]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

 

Personally, I'd go with a custom limitation: damage to END rather than STUN -0

 

 

I think I'd go wiyh that one; because it sounds more like what's going on in the special effect. Should I buy a HA power with a -0 or -1/4 limitation? I thought about the -1/4 because this attack would not be able to do BODY damage loke other normal attacks do.

 

By the way, thanks a lot guys.

[archermoo]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

I've seen this a couple of times now and I'm slightly confused. Probably because I've never thought it through before.

 

The Living Battery has 50 END when fully rested, but has been exerting himself and is down to 25.

 

He gets hit by a Drain END , and loses 10 character points worth (20 END).

 

Is he down to 5 END, or is he still on 25 END but with a maximum of 30?

 

We've always kept seperate track of drained and used END, when it has come up, so in th above example, he would have 25 used END and 20 drained END, and would have 5 END left: he gets the 25 points back at REC/turn and the 20 back at 5cps (10 END)/turn.

 

Is that wrong then?

 

No, you're doing it right. Though I'll note that he would get the 25 back at REC/recovery rather than a straight REC/turn.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Hitting or attacking Endurance

 

archermoo,

 

Can you provide a page reference? I just looked at Adjustment Powers and Drain in 5er, and can't find anything to point either way.