Brick tricks

[dmt]

Hi, I was just wondering what GM's allow in general (and what players tend to do) for building bricks.

 

Assuming a a DC 12 and 60 AP limit for any one power, how do people design their bricks to be able to do different things with their strength (and still be strong)?

 

Would you buy up the strength and then in addition to that have a separate pool of points for attacks (seems very expensive)?

 

What about if you wanted the option of using 60 strength at full END cost, but could choose to use 40 at 0 END?

 

Thanks!

[Comic]

Re: Brick tricks

 

My preferred method is this:

 

13 2d6 HA (+1.75: +1 Variable Advantage Limited to Uses of Strength; -1/2: HA, -1/2 RSR\Power Skill, -0 Only to Campaign DC Limits) "Brick Tricks" 27 AP [3]

9 14- Hoist

9 14- Power Skill (Dex or Int base) "Brick Tricks"

 

This gives almost every possible Brick Trick I've ever seen listed, and the skill to apply it in the spirit of a trick as opposed to a reliable power not modified by circumstances. Limitations on ordinary brick tricks (like OIF available object) then become circumstance modifiers to the roll.

[gojira]

Re: Brick tricks

 

I'd do this with a multipower. That's the method used in the Champions book in the Quick Superhuman Generator (under "Strength User," I think).

 

Something like base 30 STR, then add to that as needed.

 

30 Multipower Reserve, 30 points

2 u +30 STR, no figured characteristics

3 u +10 STR, plus 0 END on 40 points of STR.

3 u +2d6 HKA

2 u 3d6 Entangle, -1/4 OIF of opportunity, -1/4 extra time

 

Stuff like that. Then you can add even more stuff on top of that. Power SKill "Brick Tricks" is excellent. Adding "Variable Advantages" in there is a great idea also.

 

The multipower allows you to just do stuff any time you want. It's for a "I do this trick all the time" power.

[incrdbil]

Re: Brick tricks

 

Heres a brick tricks pool on the cheap

 

16 Multipower, 20-point reserve, (20 Active Points); all slots skill roll required, -1 per 20 active points

(-1/4)

2u 1) Did something hit me?: Energy Damage Reduction, 25% (10 Active Points) plus Physical Damage Reduction, 25% (10 Active Points)

 

1u 2) No, really, are you trying to move me?: Knockback Resistance -9"

 

1u 3) I can move anything: +20 STR; Increased Endurance Cost (x5 END; -2), Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Only for Lifting/Moving Things; -1)

 

1u 4) Is that all you got?: Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2)

 

1u 5) What I grab, stays grabbed.: Suppress STR 4d6; Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Only with Grabs;-1/2), No Range (-1/2)

 

1u 5) You can't hold me: Teleportation 7", Position Shift (19 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (Ony to escape Grabs, entangles and other restraints; -1 ), no Noncombat movement (-1/4)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Brick tricks

 

Hi, I was just wondering what GM's allow in general (and what players tend to do) for building bricks.

 

Assuming a a DC 12 and 60 AP limit for any one power, how do people design their bricks to be able to do different things with their strength (and still be strong)?

 

Would you buy up the strength and then in addition to that have a separate pool of points for attacks (seems very expensive)?

 

What about if you wanted the option of using 60 strength at full END cost, but could choose to use 40 at 0 END?

 

Thanks!

 

A 60 point hard active point cap can be difficult to stay under. I prefer to use a combination of a 75 hard active point cap and a 12 DC (damage class) soft cap.

 

See the following bricks for examples of this in use:

 

Mega-Mistress

 

Stretch Armstrong

 

Hyper-Man

[Dreadnought]

Re: Brick tricks

 

How I did it with Dreadnought (amorphous form brick) is he has 60 STR, but then he also has a multipower of tricks he can do. He lacks the control to apply as much force as he can while also altering the way he hits, all of the Naked Modifiers in the multipower are only on parts of his STR. For example, he has armour piercing or AoE (one hex) on 40 STR as two of the slots. It's a lot of fun to play, gives me a lot of options and doesn't unbalance our game.

[Alibear]

Re: Brick tricks

 

Talk of naked modifiers in a multipower is making an alarm go off in my head.

[Netzilla]

Re: Brick tricks

 

Brick Tricks multiplower from one of the characters in our campaign:

 

20 Strength Tricks: Multipower, 30-point reserve, (30 Active Points); all slots Requires A Strength Tricks Roll (-1/2)

1u 1) Back Off!: Naked Modifier: Does x1 1/2 Knockback (+1/2) for up to 60 Active Points of STR (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3 END

1u 2) Bear Hug: EB 3d6, NND (Self-Contained Breathing, Hardened Armor on Torso; +1) (30 Active Points); Must Follow Grab (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Side Effects (If STR Tricks Roll failed, target takes full STR damage; -1/4) 3 END

1u 3) Earthquake Punch: Naked Modifier: Explosion (+1/2), Hole In The Middle (+1/4) for up to 40 Active Points of STR (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Only effects targets on the ground (-1/4) 3 END

1u 4) Effortless STR I: Naked Modifier: Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) for up to 60 Active Points of STR (15 Active Points) 0 END

2u 5) Effortless STR II: Naked Modifier: Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) for up to 60 Active Points of STR (30 Active Points) 0 END

1u 6) Pry Apart: Naked Modifier: Armor Piercing (+1/2) for up to 60 Active Points of STR, Only vs. non-living targets (+0) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3 END

1u 7) Stratospheric Throw I: Naked Modifier: MegaScale (1" = 1 km; +1/4) for up to 60 Active Points, Only vs. non-resisting targets (+0) (15 Active Points) 1 END

1u 8) Stratospheric Throw II: Naked Modifier: MegaScale (1" = 10 km; +1/2) for up to 60 Active Points, Only vs. non-resisting targets (+0) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3 END

 

As you can see, most of these make use of the Naked Modifier rules. If you're GM's nervous about that inside a power framework, then it won't work for you. However, we haven't seen any balance issues with this in our group (probably because of the additional limitations most of these tricks have).

[incrdbil]

Re: Brick tricks

 

The naked modifiers make for great powers sometimes. But, as a GM, I always worry that they are a way to get around the active point cap.

 

I mean, if you have a 60 point active point limit, and the Brick of course takes 60 points of str, one of those cheap multipowers quickly ramps up his capabilities.

 

But if you allow a 'blaser tricks' multipower, or a 'mentalist tricks' one, then everythign seems ok.

[gojira]

Re: Brick tricks

 

Right, which is why I started with a base of 30 STR. If your GM is strict about that 60 AP cap, then he or she may bounce naked advantages since they will exceed the AP cap when active. You may want to ask first.

 

That's a great list of powers though. You could just drop the base STR to 30 and rework the points to stay under the 60 AP limit. Add +30 STR, No Figured Characteristics, to a multipower slot for when you want to actually use 60 points of STR to lift or throw something.

[Comic]

Re: Brick tricks

 

The reason I go with HA with advantages in place of a multipower with Naked Advantages is: A) it fits the idea better, in my opinion; it's rules legal; C) it can still go in a multipower with related Brick Tricks that aren't attacks; D) its cost structure reflects the progression of learning to use tricks (ie at low levels, you get a little benefit for a little cost).

 

Sure, TUB uses the Naked Advantage method frequently and without reference to the core rule it violates, but given that there is a rules-legal version (the HA with advantage) for every Naked Advantage, and a good mechanism for integrating STR with the advantages on HA (Hero 5th, p 408), there's no reason to use them.

 

To compare with Netzilla's build (not to be construed as criticism, since I know nothing of the circumstances or campaign of that character):

 

Brick Tricks multiplower from one of the characters in our campaign:

 

20 Strength Tricks: Multipower, 30-point reserve, (30 Active Points); all slots Requires A Strength Tricks Roll (-1/2)

So far, so good. I've used this framework as a base myself. Will need to be adjusted as noted below:

1u 1) Back Off!: Naked Modifier: Does x1 1/2 Knockback (+1/2) for up to 60 Active Points of STR (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3 END

Output: 12d6 x1.5 KB Costs 9 END, compare 6d6 HA x1.5 KB used with 30 STR Costs 7 END.

Requires increasing the Multipower to 45 Active, but if all powers are HA, the real cost only increases by 2 (45-point reserve, -1/2 HA, -1/2 RSR=22 Real Points); adds 1 level more difficulty to skill rolls.

1u 2) Bear Hug: EB 3d6, NND (Self-Contained Breathing, Hardened Armor on Torso; +1) (30 Active Points); Must Follow Grab (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Side Effects (If STR Tricks Roll failed, target takes full STR damage; -1/4) 3 END

While not a Naked Advantage, if the Reserve is to take the HA limitation, must be switched out for an HA NND:

Output 3d6 NND Costs 3 END, compare 4d6 HA NND, 1/2 END (45 AP) used with 20 STR for 8d6 NND Costs 3 END;

1u 3) Earthquake Punch: Naked Modifier: Explosion (+1/2), Hole In The Middle (+1/4) for up to 40 Active Points of STR (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Only effects targets on the ground (-1/4) 3 END

Never understood the point of the hole - what Brick worries about damage from an 8d6 Physical attack? Buy up some nice, useful Knockback Resistance, and dump the Hole in the Middle advantage. (The most you'll need is 14" KBR for the unlikely eventuality of Max KB.)

Output 8d6 Explosion Costs 6 END, compare 4d6 HA Explosion with 20 STR Costs 5 END.

1u 4) Effortless STR I: Naked Modifier: Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) for up to 60 Active Points of STR (15 Active Points) 0 END

Sure, you can't use it for other uses of STR than attacking, but:

Output 12d6 Costs 3 END, compare 6d6 HA with 30 STR Costs 2 END; increases slot cost from 1 to 2.

2u 5) Effortless STR II: Naked Modifier: Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) for up to 60 Active Points of STR (30 Active Points) 0 END

Output 12d6 Costs 0 END, compare 6d6 HA with 30 STR Costs 0 END.

1u 6) Pry Apart: Naked Modifier: Armor Piercing (+1/2) for up to 60 Active Points of STR, Only vs. non-living targets (+0) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3 END

Output 12d6 AP Costs 9 END, compare 6d6 HA AP with 30 STR Costs 7 END.

1u 7) Stratospheric Throw I: Naked Modifier: MegaScale (1" = 1 km; +1/4) for up to 60 Active Points, Only vs. non-resisting targets (+0) (15 Active Points) 1 END

These last two won't work in an HA-Only Multipower.

Either add 8 points to the Real Cost of the Multipower Reserve to include other Brick Tricks (see others' posts above for some excellent models), or go with Strato-Punch (or both?).

Output 12d6 Megascale on Knockback costs 7 END, compare 7d6 HA Megascale +1/4 with 35 STR costs 7 END.

1u 8) Stratospheric Throw II: Naked Modifier: MegaScale (1" = 10 km; +1/2) for up to 60 Active Points, Only vs. non-resisting targets (+0) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3 END

 

As you can see, most of these make use of the Naked Modifier rules. If you're GM's nervous about that inside a power framework, then it won't work for you. However, we haven't seen any balance issues with this in our group (probably because of the additional limitations most of these tricks have).

 

The HA-with-advantages approach can be balanced by putting 25 pts of STR into the Multipower (since the most STR any of the HA's take is 35, giving the same 60 STR) for a character at this STR level. Of course, this would be silly to actually do.

 

Summing up:

 

-25 STR, +5 PD, +5 REC + 12 STUN Costs 2 (so most people wouldn't waste their time 'saving' the cost of STR to put into a Multipower Slot costing another 2 pts); let's forego this.

 

30 Strength Tricks Multipower 45 AP Reserve, all Slots RSR (-1/2)

2u 1) Back OFF! 6d6 HA x1.5 KB (45 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), HA (-1/2) [4]

2u 2) Bear Hug: 4d6 HA, NND (Self-Contained Breathing, Hardened Armor on Torso; +1), Reduced END (1/2 END; +1/4) (45 Active Points); Must Follow Grab (-1/2), HA (-1/2), Side Effects (If STR Tricks Roll failed, target takes full STR damage; -1/4) 2 END

2u 3) Earthquake Punch: 4d6 HA, Explosion (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Only effects targets on the ground (-1/4) 3 END & 7" Knockback Resistance (14 AP); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) [3]

2u 4) Effortless STR: 6d6 HA, Reduced END (+1/2, 0 END) (45 Active Points), HA (-1/2) [0] (No reason to get both versions of Reduced END)

2u 6) Pry Apart: 6d6 HA, Armor Piercing (+1/2), Only vs. non-living targets (-0) (45 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 4 END

2u 7) Stratospheric Punch: 7d6 HA, MegaScale (1" = 1 km; +1/4) (44 Active Points) 4 END

3u 8) Stratospheric Throw: 25" Leaping Usable By Other (+1/4) Megascale 1"=10 KM (+1/2) (44 AP)

 

This built costs 16 Real points more than the original. However, it does either cost less END, or deliver more effect (or both) and .. bonus.. it's legal.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Brick tricks

 

My preferred method is this:

 

13 2d6 HA (+1.75: +1 Variable Advantage Limited to Uses of Strength; -1/2: HA, -1/2 RSR\Power Skill, -0 Only to Campaign DC Limits) "Brick Tricks" 27 AP [3]

9 14- Hoist

9 14- Power Skill (Dex or Int base) "Brick Tricks"

 

This gives almost every possible Brick Trick I've ever seen listed, and the skill to apply it in the spirit of a trick as opposed to a reliable power not modified by circumstances. Limitations on ordinary brick tricks (like OIF available object) then become circumstance modifiers to the roll.

 

 

Um, I may have this completely wrong, but whilst this allows you to do all sorts of things with damage (not strength, damage), you can only add 10 points of strength to it, for a maximum 4d6, with up to +1 in advantages, or +2d6 damage to your normal strength damage.

 

Hoist helps with lifting but not, for instance, holding something.

[Tonio]

Re: Brick tricks

 

Um' date=' I may have this completely wrong, but whilst this allows you to do all sorts of things with damage (not strength, damage), you can only add 10 points of strength to it, for a maximum 4d6, with up to +1 in advantages, or +2d6 damage to your normal strength damage.[/quote']

 

Apparently this only applies to Heroic campaigns, maybe even only weapons in Heroic campaigns. From 5ER:

However, a character in a Heroic campaign

with a weapon defined as an HA still cannot more

than double the weapon’s damage by applying STR.

[Comic]

Re: Brick tricks

 

Um, I may have this completely wrong, but whilst this allows you to do all sorts of things with damage (not strength, damage), you can only add 10 points of strength to it, for a maximum 4d6, with up to +1 in advantages, or +2d6 damage to your normal strength damage.

 

Hoist helps with lifting but not, for instance, holding something.

 

You are exactly right, per 5th Edition, p 408.

 

The example was for a character just starting to learn to use Brick Tricks, so would only give 4d6 damage with whatever trick was being used.

 

For better-skilled users, simply add more points to the base HA until you reach the level you desire.

 

For a dramatically less expensive approach, where a few 'commonly useful' tricks are most used, build a multipower like the one above, and use this VA as a slot in the multipower. This gives all the common Brick Tricks as standard advantages for more damage, and still lets the character 'invent' Brick Tricks on the fly with lower damage.

 

At the 4d6 HA level (8d6 damage with +1 in total Advantages with Strength), you'd need a 55 AP Multipower Reserve, taking the -1/2 RSR costs 37 Real.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Brick tricks

 

My last pure brick used a heavily limited STR VPP to cover all of his brick tricks. It was expensive and took some time to design a pool of slots but it was alot of fun. I had builds for everything from super-breath to stomp shockwaves.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Brick tricks

 

A lot of times what you want to do is simply interpretation of existing Powers. Witness the almost traditional use of "deflection" to represent attacks that the Brick simply soaks without harm, shrugging them off. T

 

That sort of thing.

[gmurie]

Re: Brick tricks

 

I'm a big fan of the Growth/DI powers. You can pack a lot of tricks into a character that's a base STR:20 with 40pts Growth at 0END. All the extra toys just get linked to the Growth. Not the least being the ever popular 2" stretching for reach and one hex AOE on strength to represent those big limbs. I'd really want an AP limit of 75 or even 90 to really make those work.

 

If I had to do something and stay completely within the DC:12 AP:60 restriction I'd do up a character with STR:40 and either pack on a lot of DEX, SPD, combat levels, and martial arts, OR go with something like this MPP:

 

20 point Muscle Control MPP

1 u +4d6 HtH attack damage

2 u 0 END on 40 STR (requires GM permission)

2 u +20" Superleap

2 u +10" Running (make base run 7")

1 u Clinging (must be able to dig fingers or toes into surface) costs END

 

and so on....

 

It might even be amusing to make a character with STR:0 and have several different varieties of STR in a 60pt MPP.

 

STR is such a useful utility characteristic you could just make a character that was mostly stats with a 60STR and enough CON, REC, and END to make it go for a long while. Then add extra running speed, knockback resistance, defenses, and superleap or whatever else suits your fancy.

 

Need an AOE on your attacks? Pick up something big and smash people with it. Need a ranged AOE? Throw the big thing. Need that one time hail mary massive attack? Move Through or Haymaker coming up!