Hermit Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Re: No way to win...? Let characters with the skills to uncover and notice things have a chance, unless Katya's mother is an award winning actress, deduction or an acting skill might see that there's something more to this... give the PCs a chance to find out HOW Katya's mother is in contact with Istvatha after ,and maybe use that to give chase if need be. Of course, the PCs might suprise you and go "hey, it's her kid. Heck of a boarding school though.."And walk off. It's when nothing you do, nothing you try can matter that you really feel dejected as a player, or even the perception that nothing your character does matters even if the GM thinks he's being clever because there really IS a way, the PCs just haven't thought of it yet. Either is just as bad, and if kept up, ends up breaking up gaming groups, because the first is "You can't win" the second comes across as "You could have won if you weren't all morons compared to me". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Re: No way to win...? I don't think the players would mind, especially if General Katya has conflicting emotions over her duties to V'han and her gratitude towards the PCs. Katya could become the "honored foe" of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Re: No way to win...? Now, what would it take to make this revelation less irritating to players? Giving them hints that Something's Wrong, and a chance to hang onto the girl themselves? Just the opposite. If you make it about saving the little girl from Istvatha V'Han then the characters have failed. If on the other hand, the little girl is rescued from DEMON, goes back to the mother and the players leave it at that, it's just the return of an old character when the little girl reappears. It's not the fault of the characters that the mother made some odd choices about where to send her daughter to school. They haven't failed. On the other hand, if the players take a real interest in the child's future of their own initiative, then give them a chance to persuade the mom otherwise and if they do well, change your plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comic Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Re: No way to win...? I learned long ago that if heroes ever have anything to do with cute, innocent pre-teen girls, only bad will come of it. Oh. That came out so wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flames Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Re: No way to win...? I think a mature group of players shouldn't be flipping tables over a plot like that. That's just the kind of thing that would happen on a TV show or in a comic book, and as long as they eventually have the chance to set things right in some way, they should be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Re: No way to win...? Definitely make sure that it doesn't look like they are being screwed for saving her, though. In particular, make sure she shows some gratitude to those who rescued her. Honestly, though, this almost sounds like a better PC concept than NPC. . . but maybe its just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkwleisemann Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Re: No way to win...? Possibly - and if I were running this as a game, I might go that route instead. ^^ However, I don't have that sort of control over the situation, necessarily... anywho, thanks for the advice from everybody. General consensus seems to be that I'm worrying too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psybolt Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Re: No way to win...? You can have Katya come back via time travel to battle the PCs only for them to realize the truth. Then, give them the chance to go and try to save her before she can be transformed into the villain they had to battle. I would think that that would be a real challenge. That is the benefit of time travel. Futures can be changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkwleisemann Posted October 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Re: No way to win...? An excellent point... she comes back as a teenager, sure, but the Little Girl is still out there somewhere in V'han's training schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psybolt Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Re: No way to win...? In fact, you could have the future Katya trying to stop your PCs from saving the present Katya... and fun would be had by all. I think it is clear that you have nothing to worry about table-flipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Re: No way to win...? To add a further curve ball, what if they met the Future Katya before the Present Katya is sent to training school (or even encountered)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Re: No way to win...? How would you handle paradox in your game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psybolt Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Re: No way to win...? Remember you don't have to worry about ... "create a time paradox, the results of which could start a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space time continuum, and destroy the entire universe!"... if you don't want to. Besides, that's just the worst-case scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Re: No way to win...? At any rate... presumably, they save Katya from DEMON, though not before the Morbane opens up some sort of interdimensional portal, exposing her to otherwordly energies (qliphothic, if any mystics in the group would know it.) That's sort of the dark reflection of Qabbalah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkwleisemann Posted October 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Re: No way to win...? That's the CU's version of Lovecraftian otherworldly evil. Might be connected to qabbalistic terminology, but I don't really know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 Re: No way to win...? That's sort of the dark reflection of Qabbalah? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qliphoth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balabanto Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Re: No way to win...? I wouldn't use time travel. This is a case where if you want to do this, you just have to let it play out based on what the PC's do. If they don't check up on Katya, regularly pay her visits, etc, then Vhan takes the kid, and when she shows up, she says "You guys didn't care enough. Isthvatha Vhan did." Take the IC means of dealing with the problem. That way, if they don't do the work, they are rewarded with a supervillain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adventus Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Re: No way to win...? I think having them fight her before you run any of this adventure would be the way to go. That way, when they save her from DEMON they have the chance to stop 2 great evils instead of one. I would have either the detective in the group or the mystic notice the resemblence to the older version of Katya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Re: No way to win...? How would you handle paradox in your game? I would say "Oh look. A paradox. Go fig." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Re: No way to win...? How would you handle paradox in your game? By having a man and a woman, dressed as pirates, jump out and sing? A paradox, a paradox, A most ingenious paradox! We’ve quips and quibbles heard in flocks, But none to beat this paradox! A paradox, a paradox, A most ingenious paradox! All common sense it gaily mocks, This most delightful paradox! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Re: No way to win...? By having a man and a woman' date=' dressed as pirates, jump out and sing?[/quote'] That's your solution to everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkmanDan Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Re: No way to win...? How would you handle paradox in your game? I'd hope neither one was a proctologist. Thanks! I'll be here all week! Try the veal! Anyways, sounds like a classic comic trope to me, so why be upset? She comes back later to fight, you have a new villain. You stop her and her mother gets so mad, she joins DEMON, you have a new villain. Isthvatha Vhan shows up or sends a minion or whatever and you try to stop them. Alternatively, the PCs get to her and let her know her possible future and, inspired by their selflessness and willingness to help others, she agrees to go and try to change her future herself, joining Isthvatha Vhan but secretly trying to stop him from inside his organization. There are lots of plot possibilities here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Re: No way to win...? That's your solution to everything. Show tunes. The ethnic music of my people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
input.jack Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Re: No way to win...? Show tunes. The ethnic music of my people. Lawyers?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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