Causing a heart attack

[Steve]

How would you write up the ability to cause heart failure in someone? An NND RKA is my first thought, but I'm wondering how else it could be done.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Causing a heart attack

 

How would you write up the ability to cause heart failure in someone? An NND RKA is my first thought' date=' but I'm wondering how else it could be done.[/quote']

 

Don't forget Does Body on that.

 

Body Drain could also work ...

[Edsel]

Re: Causing a heart attack

 

Sounds suspiciously like a Death Note build.

 

I like the idea of the BODY Drain best, much more certain to work on normals that way since they might have body armor but not power defense.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Causing a heart attack

 

Another possibility: Continuous and Uncontrolled, with the cancelling condition "being given heart attack meds or similar treatment."

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Causing a heart attack

 

I'd say make it, say, a 3d6 NND RKA, because a heart attack can do anything from more or less nothing at all to killing you in minutes. For starters.

 

Add in something like another 3d6 RKA, Only For Impairing And/Or Disabling Wounds. NND, I guess.

 

Follow that with a REC Drain that comes back Per Month.

 

Essentially, a heart attack IRL is a condition that will probably kill you, might not, but if it doesn't it can leave you very sick over the long term. Or, it might do very little. (You _could_ roll two 3's.)

[Gadodel]

Re: Causing a heart attack

 

Martial Arts, Martial Strike perhaps?

[Comic]

Re: Causing a heart attack

 

Not a CON Drain with delayed return rate?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Causing a heart attack

 

I'd say make it, say, a 3d6 NND RKA, because a heart attack can do anything from more or less nothing at all to killing you in minutes. For starters.

 

Add in something like another 3d6 RKA, Only For Impairing And/Or Disabling Wounds. NND, I guess.

 

Follow that with a REC Drain that comes back Per Month.

 

Essentially, a heart attack IRL is a condition that will probably kill you, might not, but if it doesn't it can leave you very sick over the long term. Or, it might do very little. (You _could_ roll two 3's.)

Good build that.

Well done, sir

[Sean Waters]

Re: Causing a heart attack

 

I'd use a disadvantage: Distinctive Features - Typical Teenager. They're pretty good at causing heart atatcks...

 

One small piece of advice though- Hero is not a reality simulation, so do not feel constrained to have a heart atatck power work like a 'real' heart attack - I mean, Hero gunshot wounds do not work like real gunshot wounds - the 'feel' is far more important.

 

Here's my contribution:

 

Killing Attack - Ranged 1/2d6 (Custom Adder), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), +3 Increased STUN Multiplier (+3/4), Continuous (+1), No Normal Defense ([standard]; +1), Does BODY (+1) (57 Active Points); Activation Roll 12- (-3/4), No Range (-1/2)

25 Real points, 57 Active points

 

So this power causes an alternating current to send the heart into fibrillation. The power has no range, and you have to basically slap your hands on the target's cest (a normal 'to hit' roll will do - just like the paddles a defibrillator uses. Yelling 'Clear!' is optional

 

If the target has specific defences against electricity (not just ED) or unusual physiology - alien - altered body - android - it has no effect but otherwise it causes 1/2d6 killing damage, no defence (does Body) and hurts like hell (increased stun multiple) IF you roll 12 or less on the activation. If you fail the activation roll, the power stops, otherwise it keeps going next phase and so on until you DO fail an activation roll.

 

On average this should mean about 3 to 4 activations before the power stops (there's about a 25% chance of rolling 13 or more on 3d6) but you could get none or it could continue until the target actually dies (although that is unlikely - you would need approximately 2x target Body activations to accomplish that - however the target will be down and in pain - you can expect 'average damage of 6-8 Body and 33-44 Stun, over 3 to 4 phases.

 

Should be quite a scary one.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Causing a heart attack

 

One small piece of advice though- Hero is not a reality simulation' date=' so do not feel constrained to have a heart atatck power work like a 'real' heart attack - I mean, Hero gunshot wounds do not work like real gunshot wounds - the 'feel' is far more important.[/quote']

 

I'm with Sean here. A heart attack often leaves you sick a long time as it jolts an already sick system. If you artificially induce a heart attack on someone as supremely healthy as most heroes (doubly so for superheroes) tend to be there is not likely to be the same potential for long term damage.

 

However, it is a tricky thing to model. What are the effects of a heart attack?

 

1 - A huge distracting pain for the first part. I'd be inclined to have a CON based Mind Control saying "Do nothing but fall and clutch your chest" - that means high CON people will be able to ignore the pain part. I would however have neg PER levels - you really are not paying the same attention to other things and possibly a small DEX and REC drain to represent the lack of recovery and reflexes that the situation has put you in.

 

2 - A huge pain in your chest that causes damage that may indeed simply kill you. I'm not sure that induced heart attacks do the same lasting damage as being shot there might and so I'm inclined to go for a BODY suppress. Now, you may survive a BODY suppress, even if you are brought below 0 BODY and so would have a secondary 1 pip, NND RKA continuous uncontrollable that is only active while the suppress lowers your BODY to below zero. Obviously this gives a positive feedback loop as your BODY score is being continually lowered. I'd suggest getting out of the suppress in some way pretty darn quickly. The suppress would be cancelled by good defribillation or other appropriate medical treatment.

 

I haven't costed this but it shouldn't be cheap, as Sean said, it could be a scary one and I would want to know some pretty good all or nothing defences for people to be able to use....

 

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

Re: Causing a heart attack

 

Doc mentions a Mind Control. Not sure I'd do it that way but a Mental illusion based on CON might be an interesting idea...and it can do damage, permanent damage, if the effect is great enough.

 

I'm still inclined to go with the continuous killing attack though, but I might consider creating a 'gestalt power' - start with a CON drain that the KA is linked to:

 

Drain CON 6d6 (60 Active Points); Limited Power Only for heart attack purposes (-1/2) 60 points active and 40 real 6 END

 

Then tack on the (slightly modified) heart attack power I mentioned above:

 

Killing Attack - Ranged 1/2d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), +2 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/2), Continuous (+1), No Normal Defense (Unusual physiology or specific defences against electricity; +1), Does BODY (+1) (55 Active Points); Activation Roll 12- (-3/4), Linked (Drain; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), No Range (-1/2)

 

18 real 55 Active 0 END

 

Now we have the same sort of scenario as before but a target much less able to deal with the pain.

 

Because of the way adjustment powers work, you get the KA going off first - it hurts, but not too bad. Then the CON drain kicks in - 21 points on average, which is going to mean that even most superheroes are going to eb seriously affected. The CON drain has a limitation that it only has an effect for the purposes of the heart attack - so other attacks work against the full CON for stunning purposes, but that should be enough, come the next phase, for the pain of the heart attack to really cut in and, unelss the character has a very high CON, they are likely to spend at least the next turn rolling on the floor clutching their chest. Although a single application fo the power is unlikely to kill most characters, it COULD if they were unlucky and multiple applications almost certainly would.

 

Absolute bargain at 58 points real. mind you it is a very synergystic 115 points active, so i think most GMs would rightly be very wary.

 

Note that even with the increased stun multiple (which is not entirely necessary, i have to admit) the stun average is still only just over 9 points. Without that advantage (which would change the cost to 50 active, 17 real) it is still pretty effective - the average falls to just over 5 points of stun, which means that anyone with 26 or less stun is in constant danger, and, as it is a KA, the stun total can be higher (and once the character si stunned they will STAY stunned until the power finishes (unless they have a higher SPD than the attacker) as you cannot recover in a phase in which you take damage).

 

To layer in another horrible abuse: (assuming the character has 6 SPD): +6 SPD (60 points) ONLY for determining heart attack damage (-1): 30 points.

 

There you go - damage every segment, and we've still only spent 87 points. I shouldn't be let out, really, should I?

[casualplayer]

Re: Causing a heart attack

 

1 - A huge distracting pain for the first part. I'd be inclined to have a CON based Mind Control saying "Do nothing but fall and clutch your chest" - that means high CON people will be able to ignore the pain part. I would however have neg PER levels - you really are not paying the same attention to other things and possibly a small DEX and REC drain to represent the lack of recovery and reflexes that the situation has put you in.

 

Doc

 

Isn't this just a fancy way of describing being Stunned?

 

BTW, love Sean Waters' design. So swiped for a villainess called Arrhythmia.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Causing a heart attack

 

Isn't this just a fancy way of describing being Stunned?

 

Hmm. Possibly, but then that is part of what I was trying to achieve through the construct.

 

I suppose it depends what Steve (the OP) was trying to achieve by causing a heart attack.

 

I suspect that making someone's heart stop would possibly stun them but it is done without any loss of STUN on the part of the victim so not quite the same as stunning.

 

 

Doc

[Comic]

Re: Causing a heart attack

 

My reasoning for CON Drain is that if you get CON low enough, anything that does Stun will CON-Stun you.

 

Get hit? Stunned.

 

Ego Attack? Stunned.

 

NND? Stunned.

 

Hit again while Stunned? Take double stun.

 

Knocked out? Lose all END. Wake up and start using END? Run out of END really fast. Burn Stun for END? Stunned.

 

It's far more entertaining overall. The character doesn't die outright -- as they'd been a healthy person who got hit with a heart attack -- but the player sure wishes they would.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Causing a heart attack

 

My reasoning for CON Drain is that if you get CON low enough, anything that does Stun will CON-Stun you.

 

Get hit? Stunned.

 

Ego Attack? Stunned.

 

NND? Stunned.

 

Hit again while Stunned? Take double stun.

 

Knocked out? Lose all END. Wake up and start using END? Run out of END really fast. Burn Stun for END? Stunned.

 

It's far more entertaining overall. The character doesn't die outright -- as they'd been a healthy person who got hit with a heart attack -- but the player sure wishes they would.

 

It was your suggestion that prompted me to include the CON drain in my build, but I don't see why a heart attack would make you more vulnerable to pain/shock from other attacks? Effective, I'll grant you - in fact, as a 'team tactic' having someone with a CON drain and someone else who follows up with even an average blow is pretty devastating.