Magic systems, Magic costs to much?

[VR Dragon]

I am abit inexperienced in the ways of the hero system. I have Star Hero, Fantasy Hero, a lot of Champions. Now while I can understand the more free flow form of the point payed system like champions, I get confused on trying to make lower point character/games.

 

How do you pull of a respectful magic system when you have say 200 or 250 point character point systems?

[Fitz]

Re: Magic systems, Magic costs to much?

 

There are several ways you can go about it. One is to use Power Frameworks like Multipowers for magic, which reduces the cost for individual spells (though you still have to alot points for the Pool Cost).

 

Another is to treat spells as Skills, so the cost of the power thet makes up the spell is irrelevant; the player just pays the 2 or 3 points required to learn the skill to cast it.

 

The system I use, which seems to work pretty well, is that proposed in the Turakian Age campaign book, in which magic spells are bought individually (no Power Frameworks) but get a 1/3 cost break. All such spells have a common SFX - "Magic" - which makes it easy for the GM to determine when and how they work, or not. This seems to work pretty well to make most magic affordable, without making it too easy to get uber-powerful spells. You can get a pretty good repertoire with a 200 or 250 point character.

 

I require magic use to need a Skill Roll (at -1 per 10 Active Points in the spell). I also decree that all magic spells have to cost END, and the END used is Long Term END. This means that magicians can't just blast away at everything that moves all day and night, which is something that tends to really tick off the more muscular members of the party who otherwise don't get to play with their pointy sticks

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Magic systems, Magic costs to much?

 

It's also important to realize that most magic systems do not alow free and unlimited use of spells. The limitations slapped on them also reduce their costs. An 8d6 Explosion spell that requires Gestures, Incantations, an OAF Material Component and a Skill Roll costs only 1/3 of the unlimited version of the same power a Superhero might have.

 

I may as well be the one to point you to Killer Shrike's website for a dizzying array of Fantasy Hero magic system possibilities.

 

http://killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/FantasyHERO.aspx

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Magic systems, Magic costs to much?

 

And, once you've reviewed KS's foundation work, my spell conversion from d20 will be of more use to you. But the easiest way to build a 'cheap' spell system is highly dependent on what you want said system to do. If you want six magical disciplines, build six multipowers and go nuts.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Magic systems, Magic costs to much?

 

You can even go completely Skill Based, which is close to how the Tuala Morn magic system works.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Magic systems, Magic costs to much?

 

In other words, barring a few published settings, you can really go bananas.

[Spence]

Re: Magic systems, Magic costs to much?

 

How do you pull of a respectful magic system when you have say 200 or 250 point character point systems?

 

What they said...

 

Plus define what you mean by "respectful magic system"?

 

One persons fantastic can be another's wimpy and all that.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Magic systems, Magic costs to much?

 

You can make your own magic system(s) easily, use one or more from published materials, or use magic systems done by others.

 

 

 

While some scale up or down from that general range better than others the Magic Systems provided on my site work well in the 200-200 range, as examples:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/ShrikeMagicSystems.aspx

 

 

 

These documents are design advice for making your own Magic Systems:

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/shrikeMagicDesign.aspx

 

 

If you have specific questions, ask them and you'll get a plethora of answers from the forums. Some of the answers are even useful

[Steve]

Re: Magic systems, Magic costs to much?

 

If you do a search of the forums for the term "magic system" you should find plenty of suggestions to add on to what is presented in the Fantasy Hero book. After that, feel free to come back and ask questions. Youl'll likely get a blizzard of responses.

[Nevenall]

Re: Magic systems, Magic costs to much?

 

Oh, man are you kidding?

Multipowers are really cheap.

 

Check it...

COST

30 pts Magic: Multipower, 60-point reserve, (60 Active Points); all slots Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4).

2 pts u) 1) RKA 4d6 (60 Active Points); Spell (-1/2), Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2),

Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4).

2 pts u) 2) RKA 2 1/2d6, No Range Modifier (+1/2) (60 Active Points); Spell (-1/2),

Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4).

 

With just a very few of the common magic limitations you can get a 60 Active point Multipower for just 30 points plus, say, 10 pts for a high Magic Skill and then, at most, 3 points per spell you know.

That may seem like a lot, but consider what you can get for 60 active points.

A ranged attack more powerful then most normal weapons

+6 Overall Skill Levels

12d6 Mind Control

And the limitations are very workable. Imagine if you added a focus to your MP...

 

Personally, I use VPP for magic because its cost is more in line with what I want for my campaign.

[Shaddakim]

Re: Magic systems, Magic costs to much?

 

I am abit inexperienced in the ways of the hero system. I have Star Hero, Fantasy Hero, a lot of Champions. Now while I can understand the more free flow form of the point payed system like champions, I get confused on trying to make lower point character/games.

 

How do you pull of a respectful magic system when you have say 200 or 250 point character point systems?

 

It is possible to run Fantasy Hero at the 125-150 point level and still have useful spellcasters - this is the level my FH campaign starts at. The key is for the spellcasters to have a small selection of truly useful spells. I recommend an EB or RKA with Variable Advantage (with at least +1/2 to play with), a FF spell, a Detect Magic, and a movement spell of some sort (Flight or T-port) as the bare minimums. Put Gestures, Incantations, OAF or OIF, and Requires a Skill Roll as a minimum set of Limitations and the costs are not terrible.

[Markdoc]

Re: Magic systems, Magic costs to much?

 

It is possible to run Fantasy Hero at the 125-150 point level and still have useful spellcasters - this is the level my FH campaign starts at. The key is for the spellcasters to have a small selection of truly useful spells. I recommend an EB or RKA with Variable Advantage (with at least +1/2 to play with)' date=' a FF spell, a Detect Magic, and a movement spell of some sort (Flight or T-port) as the bare minimums. Put Gestures, Incantations, OAF or OIF, and Requires a Skill Roll as a minimum set of Limitations and the costs are not terrible.[/quote']

 

Actually, that's the exact opposite of what I recommend. A spellcaster can do so many things that other characters cannot, it seems a waste to dedicate resources to "shooting things" - an archer is likely to be better at it anyway. We've just added a new character (a weather mage) to the players in my game and he has no overtly offensive spells at all. He does, however have a whole bunch of useful spells (especially for a group of PCs travelling by boat) - and he's built on only 100 points.

 

cheers, Mark

[Shaddakim]

Re: Magic systems, Magic costs to much?

 

Actually, that's the exact opposite of what I recommend. A spellcaster can do so many things that other characters cannot, it seems a waste to dedicate resources to "shooting things" - an archer is likely to be better at it anyway. We've just added a new character (a weather mage) to the players in my game and he has no overtly offensive spells at all. He does, however have a whole bunch of useful spells (especially for a group of PCs travelling by boat) - and he's built on only 100 points.

 

cheers, Mark

 

Maybe so, but I think it depends upon what style of spellcaster the player wants to play.

 

Most of my players, at least those playing a character who is primarily a spellcaster, tend to want the stereotypical wizard. I have a rogue-type with some magic for creating a pool of darkness and a mage hand spell for manipulating locks at a distance and no "blast 'em" spells. However, a typical spellcaster with a single attack spell of whatever type might as well be a fighter with a bow. Adding the variable advantage allows easy simulation of a wide repetoir of spells with similar SFX.

 

Personally, I prefer characters with a wide level of utility and many skills. My point in responding originally was that 200-250 point characters have plenty of points for magic and should look at putting together spells that are not superpowers. In D&D terms (the default lingua franca of roleplaying), I evaluate 125 point spellcasters at 3rd to 5th level (depending upon actual build) and the 200 point range as 18th to 20th level (again, depending upon the build). This is using the published monsters as a guide.