Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

[Mestopheles]

Ok guys, I'm not a new GM by any strech, but I've never had the pleasure of running a HERO game myself. I'm starting a group where many have never played HERO before (though none of them are new to gaming in general) and I want to make sure nothing slips by me when I set the game in motion.

My major concern is character creation... assuming a 400 point campaign:

What's an "average" AP cap on powers?

Is there a mathematical guideline for determining defensive power limits? Does it differ from other AP caps?

Other considerations:

What bookkeeping (i.e. notes) should I have done prior to a game session?

Should I start with a whole copy of each persons character sheet in front of me until I get an idea of what I'm looking for?

What questions should I be askingthat are popping into your head that I'm missing?

Thanks in advance guys, I don't want the game system (which I love) to interfere with my plot, so I want to be prepared for at least the predictable administrative speed bumps.

[Psylint]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

A lot of it depends on the campaign.

 

Defensive power limits: Start with how lethal you want the campaign to be. Check the rule book for the section on common weapons to give you an idea. Is it a Supers game where all but the weakest players regularly ignore pistol shots? then 12rpd is probably a minimum. On the other hand, if you want your players to be concerned about getting shot by pistols, then 11 rpd is a maximum. Note also that while damage rolls generally increase regularly, that is to say overall 12d6 is about twice as effective as 6d6, defenses do not, that is to say that 20rpd is much more than twice as effective as 10rpd.

 

I usually start out with what kinds of antagonists I'm throwing at the players and how easily they should be able to overcome them to establish the "damage cap." Then I use the analysis above to find the defensive cap.

 

As far as bookkeeping, you probably do want a copy of all the PC's character sheets, and I like to keep a tally sheet for END, Stun, and Bdy for each player.

 

As for conventions, folks differ. A lot of 350 pt. campaigns have damage caps of around 12-14 dc, and an AP cap between 75-90. A lot of campaigns allow "outliers" i.e. if most players are 8-15 rpd, then "brick" type characters are often 20-25 or even 30.

 

When balancing a campaign, I start with the stable of antagonists that I have, and then tweak things until there's a good challenge for each of the players individually and as a team. Either that or I make the antagonists much smarter, more likely to take hostages, set ambushes, etc.

 

Peace

[Talon]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

Ok guys, I'm not a new GM by any strech, but I've never had the pleasure of running a HERO game myself. I'm starting a group where many have never played HERO before (though none of them are new to gaming in general) and I want to make sure nothing slips by me when I set the game in motion.

My major concern is character creation... assuming a 400 point campaign:

What's an "average" AP cap on powers?

Is there a mathematical guideline for determining defensive power limits? Does it differ from other AP caps?

Other considerations:

What bookkeeping (i.e. notes) should I have done prior to a game session?

Should I start with a whole copy of each persons character sheet in front of me until I get an idea of what I'm looking for?

What questions should I be askingthat are popping into your head that I'm missing?

Thanks in advance guys, I don't want the game system (which I love) to interfere with my plot, so I want to be prepared for at least the predictable administrative speed bumps.

 

Firstly, I would suggest running a couple one-shot games (or even just combats) to get a hang for the system and for the characters. While there some mathematical models out there for determining character caps, IMO it's better to evaluate the characters as a whole (which does take some experience with the system).

 

400 points is pretty big...I'd expect damage caps to be around 14 DCs at least, though I don't have any experience running at that level myself so I could be way off. My guess is that anything lower than 14 would not be a good idea.

 

For defense levels, I think the classic range is somewhere between 2 and 2.5 times the DC level; in general, characters should not be anywhere close to immune to campaign-average attacks, but should also not be knocked out by a single attack (except for specialized characters who avoid being hit or something similar).

 

I would definitely suggest having all character sheets available to you. In terms of summary information, I keep a sheet with the following:

 

DEX/SPD (laid out in chart form in DEX order with Phases marked, so it's easy to see who acts in each Segment)

OCV/DCV/ECV plus combat levels

INT, PER, EGO, CON rolls

defenses

*** Any enhanced senses, so I don't forget to consider what characters might perceive

Other powers that might "kick in" without the player's knowledge (Danger Sense, powers with No Conscious Control, Luck, etc.)

[Sean Waters]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

An efficient 400 point character build can be very nasty indeed, but if you are more interested in concept, it gives you room to stretch your legs a bit with a 10-12 DC cap and defences in the region of 20-25 points.

 

Personally what I'd do is say to the players that this is by way of an experiment and that you'll be balancing character builds actually in-play.

 

We do get a little freaked about balance sometimes, and it is usually more of a problem in theory than in practice. I'd just aim to make sure that no one character is the strongest AND the fastest AND the toughest AND has the most skills...then, when you have the schticks established, remember to play them into the game.

 

I got Hero Designer recently and all of a sudden I've been designing much more expensive characters, but they have not gone up in power much if any. They have a broader range of abilities (although all based around the central schtick), and they are probably less vanilla than some of the characters I've created previously, but it really comes down to what you are after. IMO the most powerful character you can build is a flying fast brick. They wipe the floor with almost everything, and you can manage that very easily inside 400 points.

[Mestopheles]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

Thanks for the input so far guys, all good points.

As to running a few one-shot games, I typically run a 1-2 session "teaser" plot in any new campagn I start, I aim low on difficulty in combat to promote character's confidence in their character, bring in the "hey, my guy is pretty powerful and fun" mentality, identify group dynamics, and get an idea for threat balance before I commit and am forced to change things that might force me to make changes to the "main story".

It's also consistent with a lot of action-type movies; think of the first Mission: Impossible movie as an example, if you start with a "successful mission", it establishes the team as a group who have a history together (or outlines their meeting) and shows how effective they can be together when everything goes to plan. It also makes the conflict later in the story more dramatic, because you've already seen how tough your heros really are.

[Mestopheles]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

Oh, I know 400 points is sort of a lot, but this team will eventually be up against megacorporation-sized opponents (unlimited resources, unlimited ruthlessness), so I want them to be able to both hold their own (at least for a while before they decide discretion is the better part of valor) and feel as if their actions are having a measurable impact on the opposition.

I don't see them toppling a multinational megacorp with half a dozen 400-point supers, but they ought to do enough to feel like they played a part.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

Oh, I know 400 points is sort of a lot, but this team will eventually be up against megacorporation-sized opponents (unlimited resources, unlimited ruthlessness), so I want them to be able to both hold their own (at least for a while before they decide discretion is the better part of valor) and feel as if their actions are having a measurable impact on the opposition.

I don't see them toppling a multinational megacorp with half a dozen 400-point supers, but they ought to do enough to feel like they played a part.

 

 

We played a game once where half a dozen 250 point characters (well they were nearer 300 by the end) were responsible for a war with the Gods (the heroes won, although it was not exactly a straight fight), and a catastrophe that resonated across every plane of existence. They became legends, and their tales whispered until the end of days.

 

The Earth Elemental

The Silent Stalker

The Magician

The Superman

The Undying beast

The Mind Witch

 

I still get goose bumps

 

Like I said, don't sweat the points too much

[Doc Samson]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

"My major concern is character creation... assuming a 400 point campaign:

What's an "average" AP cap on powers?"

 

Going by the averages in the book, if at 350 pts. 60 APs is the cap and at 450 pts. 75 APs is the cap, I would recommend 65-70. Maybe cap it at 65 but allow each person to have one 70 AP power or characteristic to encourage individuality.

 

Is there a mathematical guideline for determining defensive power limits? Does it differ from other AP caps?

 

One-half is the usual. For example, in a 60 AP campaign, defenses would be capped at 30 PD/ 30 ED. Do a mock battle to see if the numbers fit. For instance, an average roll on a 60 AP/ 12d6 attack (average of 42) would not scratch a 45 DEF.

 

Other considerations:

What bookkeeping (i.e. notes) should I have done prior to a game session?

Should I start with a whole copy of each persons character sheet in front of me until I get an idea of what I'm looking for?

 

I always start with a battle sheet that has all the character's (PC and NPC) DEX (or active DEX if they have Lightning Reflexes) and SPDs, including what phases they go on.

 

What questions should I be askingthat are popping into your head that I'm missing?

 

Make sure your villains are prepared. If one of the characters has a massive STUN drain, make sure your Arch-villain has Power Defense or it's going to be a short fight. As a caution, don't overcompensate by building villains specifically based on a character's strengths or weaknesses. Only adjust the villains so they remain challenging and battles remain fun.

 

I hope that helps, enjoy.

[Checkmate]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

Oh, I know 400 points is sort of a lot, but this team will eventually be up against megacorporation-sized opponents (unlimited resources, unlimited ruthlessness), so I want them to be able to both hold their own (at least for a while before they decide discretion is the better part of valor) and feel as if their actions are having a measurable impact on the opposition.

I don't see them toppling a multinational megacorp with half a dozen 400-point supers, but they ought to do enough to feel like they played a part.

My suggestion would be to start the character out at 350. Then give a lot more XP than you normally would to bring them up to the level you want them at. This will accomplish a couple of things things for you:

1. In the books it's really geared towards starting out at 350, so there are tons of examples at that power level why fight it?

 

2. It allows the players (and the GM) to try out their characters, and try the system. When you created the character, you figured a 2 SPD would be enough. After playing a couple of combats, you realize that just isn't going to cut it. The influx of XP will allow the players to tweak it a bit.

 

As a real world example that happened to me (although a bit in reverse), I've been playing HERO System over 20 years. I started a new campaign and created a brick (I never play bricks, which I hope explains some of my ignorance). The GM and I created my character, and I was complaining that my Defenses were just way too low. We got to the table, and found out that I had the lowest defenses of the group (I may be tied with one, I'm not sure). I was thinking then and there, first thing I'm raising with XP is my Defenses. Well we played a few sessions, and I realized some things I never took into account. The campaign has a lower average SPD than most. My character's REC is through the roof. The lower SPD means that Phase 12 comes much quicker, allowing that REC to REALLY play an important role in keeping the character up and fighting. In one fight was below 10 STUN. My phase 12 action was to recover, and then I got the end of phase 12 recovery and I was almost back to full fighting strength.

 

So what I'm long windedly saying, is using XP instead of raising the starting points, may work out a bit better.

[CTaylor]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

Here's a few tips to make every hero game run smoother, that I've worked out over the years.

 

For NPC enemies who aren't critical to the story or stand out (agents, goblins, storm troopers) give them x number of hits before they go down and ignore stun and body. If the PC gets a really good hit, treat it as more than one. When bad_guy_01 takes 3 hits, he drops.

 

When non critical NPCs are knocked out, they stay down, no matter how far down they were knocked: -1 stun or -100. Playerst will learn to beat downed foes into a coma or to death if they keep popping back up, not terribly heroic.

 

If an NPC is particularly interesting - he gets terrific shots, fumbles a lot, is outstanding or interesting in some way, let him come back again later, it's amusing.

 

These tricks help combat go faster and keep players interested.

 

Oh in my experience: lower point values make for more interesting, challenging games.

[Spence]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

Ok guys, I'm not a new GM by any strech, but I've never had the pleasure of running a HERO game myself. I'm starting a group where many have never played HERO before (though none of them are new to gaming in general) and I want to make sure nothing slips by me when I set the game in motion.

My major concern is character creation... assuming a 400 point campaign:

What's an "average" AP cap on powers?

Is there a mathematical guideline for determining defensive power limits? Does it differ from other AP caps?

 

 

For caps and such, mine vary widely depending not on point totals, but rather on specific genre.

 

 

Other considerations:

What bookkeeping (i.e. notes) should I have done prior to a game session?

Should I start with a whole copy of each persons character sheet in front of me until I get an idea of what I'm looking for?

 

I use Hero Designer and have a barebones copy of the PC's at every game. It helps me keep their character abilities and disadvantages up front and accessible. Especially new players that are unsure of what they can do in game.

 

What questions should I be asking that are popping into your head that I'm missing?

Thanks in advance guys, I don't want the game system (which I love) to interfere with my plot, so I want to be prepared for at least the predictable administrative speed bumps.

 

I always plan out the sessions as detailed as possible. I also have extra mooks and secondary villains prepped.

 

That way once the game starts and the players idea of what "they should do now" makes a left turn and leaves all my plans behind, I have some resources to help when I adlib.

 

When I run a campaign I always have at least 3 unrelated plots running. Some will be short and only go 1-5 sessions. Some will be long term.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

One thing that can be slightly confusing for the uninitiated is the order in which characters act.

 

You can address this in one of three ways:

 

1. Just learn it - soon you'll know a SPD 5 means phases on segments 3,5,8,10 and 12 without having to look it up.

 

2. Get or make a GM screen with the speed chart on it, count the segments out loud and make the characters responsible for their own actions - if they miss one, hard luck.

 

3. Have all the characters work off the same SPD. You could go for 4 or 6, they are quite popular, depending on whether you want END to be an issue or not. 'Fast' characters should then be built with autofire attacks, or skills that enabe them to use sweep or rapid fire manouevres for that 'I can hit more often than you' feel.

[Psylint]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

Be wary of characters or NPC's with mental powers. They are more likely to kill a game than many other things. On the one hand, Mental Powers are extremely fragile, many of the effects folks want to do require very large dice rolls, and then the initial breakout is still more likely passed, and thus negating the mental attack entirely, than not. The flip side, is that when mental powers are throwing heavy amounts of dice or are combined with things like penalty levels to breakout rolls they become on the unfun side of powerful. No one particularly likes to get that note across the table "Sorry Joe, but you've been mind controlled and failed your breakout roll, maybe you'll break free in a Turn." Or the more likely, "Sorry Joe, you're subject to an absolute mental illusion that has placed you in the bowels of Hell, where you'll take damage but be unable to affect the real world for at least a Turn. Good luck!"

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

When non critical NPCs are knocked out' date=' they stay down, no matter how far down they were knocked: -1 stun or -100. Playerst will learn to beat downed foes into a coma or to death if they keep popping back up, not terribly heroic.[/quote']

 

I hate not giving the NPC an even break. He paid for his REC too. Another approach to this is in the interpretation of "0 to -9 STUN", where the character is unconscious but still aware of his surroundings. Often, these characters fall down "oh, he's KO'd". If, however, you treat him as dazed, but still moving, it's not "beating a downed opponent" when the Hero hits him again (for double STUN as he's KO'd), so foes tend to stay down.

[Mestopheles]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

All great input, folks. I'm thinking I'll go with the "350 points and rapid experience rewards" model for the reasons given, I really appriciate everyone's input. I've seen how helpful you all are in the past but I'm really glad I created an account now, I'm excited about getting my game running.

[CTaylor]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

I hate not giving the NPC an even break. He paid for his REC too. Another approach to this is in the interpretation of "0 to -9 STUN"' date=' where the character is unconscious but still aware of his surroundings. Often, these characters fall down "oh, he's KO'd". If, however, you treat him as dazed, but still moving, it's not "beating a downed opponent" when the Hero hits him again (for double STUN as he's KO'd), so foes tend to stay down.[/quote']

 

Sure, for more important NPCs that's fine, but I would say not for incidental ones. You never see the hero in any book, movie, TV show or comic book having to beat the tar out of some no-name agent because he got back up again unless it's a comedy and that's played for laughs. It makes the PCs more brutal and vicious for no reason, and makes fights last longer without cinematic value.

 

Again, I'd suggest (strongly) lower powered than 350. Even lower than 250 can be fun. The lower powered characters you have to start with the more creative they have to be, the more challenging encounters can be, and the more the world matters. If you're 350 points, some thug with a gun is a flea. If you're 150, they're a real concern. You can give points out rapidly to get past this point, but you miss a lot of potential scenarios and opportunities for stories and encounters if you start out with cosmic power levels.

 

As for experience, I suggest giving it to them in lumps rather than trickles. What I mean is treat the experience like "levels" in D&D rather than a steady stream of low points. Give it to them in tens or more, not in 2's and 3's. Each time they get more points, give them guidelines of what they are limited to buy things at, so you can control power inflation. no more than x CV, no more than y into stats, that kind of thing.

 

It makes characters develop gradually but steadily while keeping the feeling of growth and accomplishment. This works especially well for heroic-level games like Fantasy Hero.

[Mestopheles]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

...Again, I'd suggest (strongly) lower powered than 350. Even lower than 250 can be fun. The lower powered characters you have to start with the more creative they have to be, the more challenging encounters can be, and the more the world matters. If you're 350 points, some thug with a gun is a flea. If you're 150, they're a real concern. You can give points out rapidly to get past this point, but you miss a lot of potential scenarios and opportunities for stories and encounters if you start out with cosmic power levels.

 

As for experience, I suggest giving it to them in lumps rather than trickles. What I mean is treat the experience like "levels" in D&D rather than a steady stream of low points. Give it to them in tens or more, not in 2's and 3's. Each time they get more points, give them guidelines of what they are limited to buy things at, so you can control power inflation. no more than x CV, no more than y into stats, that kind of thing.

 

It makes characters develop gradually but steadily while keeping the feeling of growth and accomplishment. This works especially well for heroic-level games like Fantasy Hero.

 

I'll give it some thought, I may be able to add a 3-6 session "mini-plot" at the beginning before the plot I have in mind already. I can always pull some of the threads from that beginning phase into the main plaot as well. That would permit the lower-powered beginning for a while so the players get more comfortable first, and they won't be so locked into their character build since they can add exp later. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Checkmate]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

I would actually keep it at 350. What happens a lot of times when you go lower (especially with beginning players) is players will sacrifice what I call the "fluff skills" to make sure their powers fit into the concept they want. Fluff skills being the little things like KS: Fine Wines, or even minor talents like Lightsleep.

 

As I said before the books are geared towards superheroes starting at 350 so it gives you plenty examples to help you out.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

The best advice I can give is don't pet the sweaty stuff, or something like that: Enjoy!

 

Do let us know how it goes

[Mestopheles]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

...don't pet the sweaty stuff' date=' or something like that: Enjoy!...[/quote']

Haven't heard that one in years, lol

"You must spread some reputation around..."

[Spence]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

Haven't heard that one in years, lol

"You must spread some reputation around..."

 

I got him for you.

 

I needed to check that the button wasn't broken. Mine seems to be stuck on "You must spread some reputation around..."

[CTaylor]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

I tend to give people x points to build their character with and x bonus points for non-combat character things. Even just 10 points for languages, KS, and a professional skill goes a long ways.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

As a GM running a bunch of NPCs, you may find that all the possible random die rolls (attacks, damage, Skill, activation, etc.) can slow you down and make it more difficult to keep track of the action. One thing that I've found really helpful is to pre-roll a bunch of random results for these for each character, then cross each result off the list. If you trust your players you can even have them do the same thing for their PCs.

[Utech]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

Always keep in mind that your job is to facilitate the fun. Never, ever hesitate to make changes if the game is not fun for everyone.

 

Enemies too hard? Change them on the fly. Have them start "monologuing" instead of fighting. Give your heroes a chance to regroup and find a way to win.

 

Enemies too easy? Change them on the fly. Have them activate their "power up" device; grant one (or more) Duplication and have them suddenly split; have a DNPC get him/herself into peril. Give your heroes a chance to face challenges and overcome them.

 

Players don't care for the adventure you had planned? Shut it down. Narrate how you imagine it turned out and move on to another adventure. Talk to your players about what they liked and didn't like. Learn from the mistakes.

 

One PC consistently outshines the others? Talk to the group and ask if this is a problem. If it is, retool the PC -- do it on the fly if you must; between sessions if you can -- or rework the adventures to give special opportunities for the other PCs to shine.

[Alibear]

Re: Never GMed HERO before, a few pointers?

 

I would just like to add that you should tell the players that you're still feeling you're way and that they should be prepared to revise characters if and when problems arise.