STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

[Steve Long]

I haven't finished the Stronghold outline yet, but there was such interest in the book during my chat last night I figured I had enough to get this thread started.

 

First, here's a brief outline of what I expect the book will contain. I'd appreciate it if you'd review it closely before posting so you don't waste your time suggesting stuff that will already be in there. As you can see the book covers some stuff other than just Stronghold the prison, but they're all related issues.

 

 

Chapter One: The Villain In The Hands Of The Law: The legal process a villain goes through; villain prisoner transport; superhumans and the law (focusing mostly on criminal procedure, evidence, and constitutional issues, but I'll also cover some other fields, like how a costumed hero can sign a contract); the "supervillain on trial" scenario (a chapter that I cut from Villainy Amok knowing it would work better here ).

 

Chapter Two: Welcome To Stronghold: A description of the prison itself -- its history, location, levels, layout, infrastructure, security devices, cell configurations, etc.; what daily life is like in America's superprison. Short section with *brief* info on other CU super-prisons.

 

Chapter Three: Personnel: the staff, from Warden Wildman on down to the guards and janitors, plus as necessary their special gear; the inmates. The latter section will include (a) a partial list of current inmates, and ( about half a dozen new villains, including at least one of significant power.

 

Chapter Four: GMing Stronghold: using SH in your campaign; how to create your own super-prison; scenarios (including Escape From Stronghold, Riot In Cell Block #9, Hostage Situation, The Break-In, and "The SH" [think "Oz in the CU"]); using SH in other campaign types.

 

 

 

Now, just to head any errant suggestions off at the pass, here's a quick list of some things that will not be in the book:

 

Information on prisons or prison life in general

Revised character sheets for existing villains

Lots and lots of new villains

Lady Blue centerfold

Detailed information about other CU superprisons

A review of superhuman law in nations other than the US

Free lottery tickets

 

 

 

So, keeping all that in mind... what would you like to see in this book?

[Bloodstone]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Will it also include a list of former villains that have either been reformed or some how managed to escaped/been busted out?

 

I'd really like to see a "the system worked" character in the mix though.

 

Also:

 

Now, just to head any errant suggestions off at the pass, here's a quick list of some things that will not be in the book:

 

Lady Blue centerfold

 

So, Howler then?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Remember the "Murder in Stronghold" scenario from (I think it was) Champions Presents #2? A revisit of that, along with some of the notes I give on "Mysteries in Roleplaying" in DH#45, would likely be a welcome addition.

 

Something to cover in Chapter Two: How, if at all, would things like "protective custody," "jailhouse informant," and such be reflected on an inmate's character sheet? Could the be considered Perks, Disadvantages (such as Social Limitation: Harmful Secret for the informant), or some combination?

 

I agree with not having "lots and lots of new villains," as that's not supposed to be the focus of the book. Among the few you're planning on, I might suggest a former VIPER villain who's quietly serving a LWOP sentence and willingly sharing what spotty knowledge he has on the organization (meaning he gets protective custody and Contact: Nighthawk).

 

I also agree with not having detailed information about other CU superprisons, but a paragraph or two on some of the better-known (and how the GM can adapt the information in the book to reflect such prisons) would be very helpful.

 

And I do think you can sneak in a Lady Blue centerfold in there (just make it a less-detailed "minor feature" in a larger illustration). Ditto a Seeker dartboard.

 

And it's probably just me, but I keep imagining a cover illustration showing Nighthawk getting the worst part of the entry security process....

 

Just a few more-or-less random thoughts.

[Edsel]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Chapter One: The Villain In The Hands Of The Law: The legal process a villain goes through; villain prisoner transport; superhumans and the law (focusing mostly on criminal procedure' date=' evidence, and constitutional issues, but I'll also cover some other fields, like how a costumed hero can sign a contract); the "supervillain on trial" scenario (a chapter that I cut from [i']Villainy Amok[/i] knowing it would work better here ).

I am glad to see that this chapter will cover the prisoner transport problem. I want to see the equipment and vehicles that the super-powered Con-Air uses.

[death tribble]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

The original Stronghold had particular prisoners, the security precautions for said prisoners and how they might get out.

 

A repeat of that would be good. Not with the villains that were done then, one of whom Ripper has already appeared in the Viper book.

 

A remark or discussion on secret id of a villain where they have no fingerprints in the system and have not been identified by conventional means including the fact that they won't tell the authorities who they are.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I assume we'll be seeing lots of nice maps included, but I just want to add specifically that I'd like to see general grounds outside as well as inside.

 

The security devices and cells are amongst the things I'm really looking forward to. Along with these, however, I'd love to see a developmental timeline. What were the earliest devices? How many people died when they severely overestimated the strength of the shackles? When and how did they evolve to their current state? Who developed the technology? That kind of thing.

 

And I think you need to seriously reconsider the centerfold

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Now' date=' just to head any errant suggestions off at the pass, here's a quick list of some things that will [i']not[/i] be in the book:

(snip)

Lady Blue centerfold

What?!? That tears it... I ain't buyin' this!

 

Okay, seriously...

 

I think it would be interesting to have a small section (likely within the GMing Stronghold section) that suggests alternate "spins" on how to use Stronghold. Some possibilities might include things like...

 

Stronghold Dungeon: While outwardly appearing to be carrying out their charter, the Warden and staff secretly treat the prisoners with extreme inhumanity (torturing prisoners with materials they're Susceptible or Vulnerable to, drugging "hot sleep" prisoners so that their long slumber is filled with hideous nightmares, and so on).

 

Hogan's Stronghold: Unbeknownst to the staff, a small cadre of prisoners has found a way (or have powers that give them a way) to come and go from the superprison. But rather than leaving, they stay on as "moles" on the inside, helping certain other prisoners escape, gathering inside information, or performing other "inside" tasks... all for lucrative payments or valuable favors from other villains.

 

Corrupt Stronghold: The staff are perfectly willing to facilitate a villain's "escape"... for the right price.

 

Stronghold Gulag: In addition to its overt mission as a superprison, it also has a covert function as home of people deemed politically inconvenient to a sinister government cabal within Stronghold's backers. These secret prisoners may be normals... or even heroes...

 

Stronghold Battleground: The superprison relies less on high-tech gadgetry to keep prisoners inside, and more on superpowered prison guards...

 

Stronghold Gladiators: Deep below the prison is a secret "danger room" where villains are turned loose to battle each other for the amusement of powerful VIPs, corrupt Stronghold staff, or discreet -- and fantastically wealthy -- pay-per-view customers. Prisoners may be encouraged to participate with promises of being allowed to "escape" after a certain number of wins in the arena...

[FenrisUlf]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I rather like the ideas that Steve already mentioned, but I want to keep an eye on this.

 

Say, roughly any idea on when it'll hit the stores?

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Life after Stronghold - Ex Cons and the Legal System, Parole Officers, Superhuman Bounty Hunters.

 

Accessibility to Family Members, the Media, Protesters, and etc...

 

Hot Sleep vs Human Rights - Not just the Legal Ramifications, but the Personal Ones.

 

Who Watches the Watchmen - Protecting the Staff, Families, and Friends of Stronghold from Supervillain reprisals.

 

I really should have saved the Chat last night there were so many cool ideas.

 

"Flood the place with poison gas. Its the only way to be sure!" - Stopping Vigilantes, Mercenaries, and I.H.A. Minute Men VII Robots from attacking, rescuing, and killing convicts.

 

Undercover in Stronghold - Superhuman or Super Agent goes into Stronghold to get information for convicted Supervillain. They are all ego maniacs. Will they talk?

 

Who has been to Stronghold?

How hard will they avoid it in the future?

Will Superheroes feel that the Supervillains, Superpowered Terrorists, Super Agents receive justice?

Is there a revolving door problem?

Is there a Prison Drug problem?

 

 

Cheers

 

 

QM

[Steve Long]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Say, roughly any idea on when it'll hit the stores?

 

Well, due to various interruptions and delays I can anticipate, I expect I'll be done writing it roundabout early November. Then Andy needs a few weeks to lay it out, have me review it, etc. Then it needs to be printed and shipped. So, mid-December at the earliest, more likely early January.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Strong support for all the suggestions made so far, including Mr. Long's outline (although I do think the Lady Blue centerfold should be part of a larger supplement with the same general theme).

 

As a GM I would like the "GMing Stronghold" section to include notes on some of the weaknesses of the prison - structural, technical, and procedural - with suggestions for how they might be exploited by villains (or heroes) trying to escape, or to break out other inmates. It would also be nice if the administration and structure of Stronghold would allow for PC heroes to temporarily join the guards of the prison, to allow for some extended stories set there.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I've solved the Lady Blue problem: She gets on the cover

 

I'd like to see "The Future of Stronghold." What does it look like in 2020? 2050? ...2525 (If man is still alive)?

 

Maybe an overall timeline. Nothing too complex, just a paragraph summary from every ten years or so, from inception through a hundred (or so) years in the future.

[transmetahuman]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I've solved the Lady Blue problem: She gets on the cover

 

I'd like to see "The Future of Stronghold." What does it look like in 2020? 2050? ...2525 (If man is still alive)?

 

Maybe an overall timeline. Nothing too complex, just a paragraph summary from every ten years or so, from inception through a hundred (or so) years in the future.

It's a CU-specific book, so a few years from now when everyone loses their powers so they can become cyberpunks, I doubt Stronghold will be maintained.

 

I'm resigned to the near-certainty that the stuff I'd most want to see will be excluded for much the same reason - it's a CU book, and the CU does have technology that can deal with powers. But I'd really love some exploration (maybe from the earliest days of Stronghold?) of what happens to the criminal justice system when the state of the art can't guarantee imprisonment.

 

It's just always bugged me that the same force field enhancement will work against the vibrating speedster, the girl who can turn herself into a stream of neutrinos, and the mystic who transforms into ectoplasm. I like SFX-driven countermeasures better than game mechanical ones - and most of my campaign world ideas don't include super-tech anyway.

 

But like I said, I don't expect to see anything about this in a book set in the CU. Even I don't think it would be appropriate (except maybe in a historical sidebar, wish wish). So, back to more constructive suggestions! Sorry for the tangent.

 

How about some overview of the process by which the techs determine which powers they need to plan for? Is it all just based on a bio-scan plus collecting anecdotal lists of what the villain has been observed to do in the past? What kinds of things will a full examination tell them, and what ace-in-the-hole powers might slip by?

 

What do they do with criminals whose powers they haven't figured out how to neutralize, and who have the right life support that hot sleep isn't an option?

 

Also, what about super-powered arrestees who haven't yet been convicted? Do they go to Stronghold to await trial? Are they put in with the regular population?

[Guest Goradin]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I was thinking last night when is HERO going to get its Ape Villian? We need a Gorilla Grod and everyone knows Gorilla comics sell the best. Can you slip one into Crooks, Cabals or Stronghold Steve Hero needs an Ape Master Villian, can we see it anytime soon?

 

I want to see different cell types to contain different types of baddies. A dimensional prison like the negative zone perhaps would be cool.

 

I ran the players are framed aka Stronghold Redemption Adventure a couple of times for different groups over the years. Its a great scenario playing upon the Shawshank Redemption. Can the players bust out?

 

How about a bust in scenario? Where they have to bust someone out to save the world with the whole world versus them.

[SuperPheemy]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

I'd like to see a short section on the interior politics of Stronghold. Perhaps a second-tier master villain who is serving life, but runs his own prison-empire. Mutant gangs. Human anti-mutant gangs.

 

Maybe a couple of controversial inmates whose devotees work hard for the "Free (Villain here)" movement!

 

"1-2-3-4, just let Grond walk out the door!"

[Blue]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Medical Ward, Iso-cubes (for villains who must be kept on ice), and Transport Vehicles.

[wcw43921]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Steve--I was thinking that a nifty way to preface the chapters would be to feature excerpts from the diary of an incarcerated prisoner. It could be a new or existing villain, or the "(person) of significant power" you mentioned. The idea is that as the prisoner is taken through the process, so are we.

 

While I know you want to focus on Stronghold, I would like to see something about the supervillains not powerful enough to be incarcerated there. Are they housed at the ADX in Florence, CO, or in prisons close to their jurisdiction, like real-world criminals? And how powerful does a superhuman have to be to warrant incarceration in Stronghold?

 

Good Luck with the book, and Happy Writing.

[Tigereye]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Well, having had a mass breakout from Stronghold in our last adventure, how about a nuclear energy suppression system, Megascale, Area Effect?

 

After all, in order to effect the escape of nearly every supervillain from the complex, the main baddy NUKED it with a 1-kiloton enhanced-EMP "device"...

 

Seriously, though, in addition to the ideas listed above-

 

Resident "on call" -and incarcerated- heroes (who may be there while undergoing investigation of wrongdoing- a "Punisher" type or something) Whether the jailed hero is actually guilty remains up to the GM.

 

I like the idea of an Evil Government Cabal which has framed or "rendered" a superhero in the facility.

 

Similar facilities worldwide, and ideas for containment powers.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Now, just to head any errant suggestions off at the pass, here's a quick list of some things that will not be in the book:

 

Information on prisons or prison life in general

Revised character sheets for existing villains

Lots and lots of new villains

Lady Blue centerfold

Detailed information about other CU superprisons

A review of superhuman law in nations other than the US

Free lottery tickets

 

 

 

So, keeping all that in mind... what would you like to see in this book?

 

How about steeply discounted lottery tickets?

 

On a slightly more serious note, so many people complain about Hero's art, and quite a few talk up the cheesecake-heavy art of other games, maybe a Lady Blue centerfold should be a part of some Champions supplement or other.

[casualplayer]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Post-block life, where the villain repents or just cuts a deal to do dirty deeds for the government would be nice. Sounds like you may have intended to include some idea of how long a parolee may expect to be on parole, which would be great. I used to incorporate ex-cons into my game's team, and they had Thunder, Lightning, Foxbat, Leo and Starhand on the team at various times and it was a lot of fun.

 

Slang is always good. Either self created or referenced. I guess we could just watch a couple of episodes of Oz.

 

A nice, sprawling map of a complex that could be used as a dungeon in Fantasy HERO, as Stronghold in Dark/Champions/3000 or Star HERO or the ruins of a prison for Post-Apoc HERO would be great. I know there will be maps but prisons are HUGE! and a super SuperMAX prison would be especially so. They would probably have to have their own power plant. Something epic, please.

[gojira]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Chapter Two: Welcome To Stronghold: A description of the prison itself -- its history, location, levels, layout, infrastructure, security devices, cell configurations, etc.;

 

Awesome! I love maps. This should be a must buy for me. I've got some stuff lined up that I've been meaning to get. Stronghold will be one more.

 

I think I'd like to see life as a prisoner. OK, your players are villains. They get sent to Stronghold. What are the other prisoners like?

 

Who runs the cigarette smuggling? Is there a shop and a laundry room? Is working there considered a privilege or a punishment? What prison cliques exist? What do these cliques all do, exactly, and who runs them? There should, for example, be an informal Viper nest inside Stronghold. Who runs it, and what sort of activities is it involved in?

 

More importantly, how are your players going to get out?

 

The latter bit shouldn't be construed by GMs as permission to turn Stronghold into a revolving door for supervillains. Make sure to mark any typical escape routes as something special for players and very select NPCs only.

 

Plus some ideas for introducing the players (as villains) to life inside Stronghold. Not quite a full adventure, but some ideas for getting them to know the ropes.

 

 

Second, let's say your players are in prison. No one's got superpowers, right? They're all suppressed or drugged or inhibited in some way. Yet you know they're going to want to fight.

 

So some tips on NON-superpowered combat would be good. Can you fit a razor blade on a tooth-brush inside of a pair of super-sized manacles, for example? And what kind of penalty to OCV and DCV do those inhibitors you have to wear give anyway?

 

If no one has superpowers, I'd imagine martial artists have a big edge. Some sedatives, mandated by the prison, might reduce their speed to reasonable ranges. It might also give them lims (Psych Lim: Mellow: EGO roll in order to fight) or remove existing ones (Berserk).

 

More ideas along these lines would be cool. How many ways can I reduce villain players to normal ranges. Then, what sort of things do I have to watch for when I'm running a non-superpowered fight. (I don't do any pulp or fantasy hero, so I'm a newb in this respect.)

 

Finally, players are going to want to beat the system to gain their powers back. Either they know a big fight is coming up, or they want to break out, or they're just trying to assert their own independence. Some rules on that would be helpful too.

 

 

That was two things. 1. Prison life from the inside, and 2. Non-super combat inside Stronghold.

 

 

I hope this turns out as cool as I'm hoping.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

Recent Comic Book Resources

Marvel Boy/Justice - Murder Trail

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_Astrovik#Murder_Trial

 

Thunderbolts - Changes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolts_%28comics%29#Changes

 

New Avengers - Breakout

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Avengers#Breakout_.28issues_.231-6.29

 

Breakdown - Former Superhero breaks Dad out of jail.

http://www.pullboxonline.com/index.p...od&productId=3

 

Backlash - Breaking a Cabal agent, Taboo, out of prison to help him on his quest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backlash_%28Wildstorm%29#Stormwatch

 

Suicide Squad - Superhumans and Supervillains who work covertly for the government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_Squad

 

Daredevil - Superhero Lawyer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daredev...rvel_Comics%29

 

She-Hulk - Superhero Lawyer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/She-Hulk

 

Vigilante - Adrian Chase Judge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante_%28comics%29#Adrian_Chase.2C_Alan_Welles.2C_Dave_Winston

 

Manhunter (Mark Shaw) -

http://en.dcdatabaseproject.com/Manhunter_%28Mark_Shaw%29

 

Manhunter (Kate Spencer) -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhunter_%28Kate_Spencer%29

 

 

Cheers

 

 

QM

[Comic]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

It's such a recurring theme, will Telepathy and the Legal Process make it into the first section?

 

Also, holographic lives in hot sleep (a la 'The Green' in Next Men, for example) seems to be a popular theme. Any chance or speculation or opening for the Hot Sleepers to think they're awake in a mutual shared illusion?

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

The Demolition Man - Cryoprisons and Conditioning

 

 

LOL... "Here I knitted you a sweater"

 

 

QM

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: STRONGHOLD -- What Do You Want To See?

 

You probably have it covered, but:

 

1) Multiple scenario seeds / adventures using Stronghold as a focus.

 

2) A possible reform / assistance scenario from a villain (a la 48 Hours).

 

3) Suggestions on how to get those pesky DNPC's involved so it is more than just a combat adventure.

 

4) "A Day In Stronghold" Adventure where the PC's are asked to stand in for the corrections workers there because of a strike or illness.

 

5) A "Turnabout" Adventure where the PC's have been captured by a villain / organization and placed in a very similar facility.

 

6) A look at special holding facilities constructed to hold a single supervillain because of the danger he/she/it poses to us all.

 

7) A quick look at capital punishment in relation to metahuman crime would also be nice (though not pleasant).

 

8) Artwork that is worthy of a classic setting / adventure seed such as this.

 

9) I know what you said, but updated villains for this setting (Ripper, for example) would be welcome.

 

10) If you're not going to put a Lady Blue centerfold in this one, can you at least put one up as a wallpaper offered through the on-line store?

 

Matt "Old-school-drooling-fanboy" Frisbee