Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

[Kirby]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

Hard call, but overall I'd have to say Foxbat. He's become sort of a symbol for me, a raspberry at the iron age grim and gritty stuff that I get tired of. He's also just lots of fun for the GM.

 

For the players varies

I just need to compliment Hermit on his usage of Foxbat. He's used Foxbat the best compared to the other GMs I've game with.

[Balabanto]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

As long as we're doing top five villain lists.

 

Favorite Non-Champions Villains

 

5. Hans Glaub (Alan Rickman, Die Hard)

4. Doctor Doom (Doom does not tolerate being number four on the list...ZOT!)

3. Liu Far Lam (Gordon Liu)-The evil caped mastermind from Black Mask. Just make sure you get the chinese version with the subtitles.

2. Doctor Octopus (Alfred Molina did a fantastic job, plus, let's face it. It's hard to get people to take you seriously when your name is Doctor Octopus. Success is impressive.)

1. Desslok of Gamilon (Star Blazers/Space Cruiser Yamato). From the sly, effete and bored ruler, reclining on his throne to killing a man who laughs at his own jokes just because he doesn't like it, Desslok has it all. Cunning, sneaky, a healthy respect for his greatest enemies, sometimes even admiration, and a creepy kind of upper class twisted panache. There really isn't a substitute for this guy, at all, and it's been about 35 years since he first showed his evil face. All time winner.

 

Top 5 champions villains

 

5. The Corruptors of All. The idea of another earth ruled by crimelords was just too cool to believe, and the villains had interesting psych crocks that played off each other in believable ways. Unfortunately, Dennis Mallonee, who has never used the characters ever again, thrust a knife into the back of Herophiles everywhere when he took off,and took these guys with him, even to the point that Cryotron is on the back of the original fourth edition Enemies sourcebook. There's a special place in hell reserved for Dennis, I'm sure.

 

4. The Zodiac: Douglas Shuler's Zodiac was one of the most interesting and clever portrayals in a long time, despite the serious design errors in the printed character sheets. Unfortunately, again, conflict over rights, etc knifed hero system people in the back. We're STILL paying for this one as fans.

 

3. Foxbat: Without Foxbat, there's just so much of Hero System we wouldn't have. Foxbat and Fandom, Foxbat Unhinged, The Awesome Exoskeleton Man, Harmonious Fist, the Centipedemobile....and...of course, Foxbat for President, coming soon to an issue of Digital Hero near you. (Shameless Plug)

Plus there's...(MWOZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ) Foxbat and the Foxbateers, the Many Lives of Foxbat, It's a Foxbat Life, Foxbat on the Half Shell....(GET THAT MIND CONTROL HELMET OFF MY HEAD, YOU PING PONG BALL GUN TOTING FREAK!)...Whew...

 

2. Deathstroke: That's right. You heard me. Deathstroke. Not the namby pamby dumbed down Where did all my XP go versions from 4th edition, but Frost, Deathsinger, Death Commando, Arrowhead, and Stinger, one of the meanest, toughest superteams ever to grace an adventure. Doctor Draconis was pretty cool in this adventure too, but he wasn't nearly amazing as these guys, the first supervillain team that was really designed as a team, and boy, could they kick your butt, especially in the old days when the mightiest heroes really did throw about 10d6 and an average attack would bounce off Deathsinger's defenses completely.

 

1. Master Control: Master Control required a little bit of extra work to get into my campaign, and a total background rewrite, but I loved the idea of an armored guy who wasn't really an armored guy, who was a vicious technology pirate so he could, among other things, become a better armored guy than he was. Special kudos to Sean Fannon for coming up with the STRIKE units, who my players CONTINUE to hate. This is one I'd LOVE to redo for 5th edition in Digital Hero, but I have too many other projects right now.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

5. The Corruptors of All. The idea of another earth ruled by crimelords was just too cool to believe' date=' and the villains had interesting psych crocks that played off each other in believable ways. Unfortunately, Dennis Mallonee, who has never used the characters ever again, thrust a knife into the back of Herophiles everywhere when he took off,and took these guys with him, even to the point that Cryotron is on the back of the original fourth edition Enemies sourcebook. There's a special place in hell reserved for Dennis, I'm sure. [/quote']

 

Not only Cryotron, but the other three Corruptors have illustrations in 4E's Classic Enemies, in the banners at the top of various chapters. Clearly they were originally intended for inclusion in that book. I'm sure they would have appeared in the multi-part adventure included in the Fourth Edition version of Champions Universe, since the team of villains used for that adventure, "The Unique Battalion," were so clearly inspired by the Corruptors of All in origin and background.

 

I agree that the Corruptors' homeworld of Lo sounded like it would be fun to explore.

 

4. The Zodiac: Douglas Shuler's Zodiac was one of the most interesting and clever portrayals in a long time' date=' despite the serious design errors in the printed character sheets. Unfortunately, again, conflict over rights, etc knifed hero system people in the back. We're STILL paying for this one as fans.[/quote']

 

Largely agree, although I was always bothered that a group led by such a grand concept master villain as Taurus, with aspirations of world domination, had so little in the way of organized support "on the ground" to carry out their plans. When I used the Zodiac in my games I made most of the members people of power and influence in the world in their own rights.

 

2. Deathstroke: That's right. You heard me. Deathstroke. Not the namby pamby dumbed down Where did all my XP go versions from 4th edition' date=' but Frost, Deathsinger, Death Commando, Arrowhead, and Stinger, one of the meanest, toughest superteams ever to grace an adventure. Doctor Draconis was pretty cool in this adventure too, but he wasn't nearly amazing as these guys, the first supervillain team that was really designed as a team, and boy, could they kick your butt, especially in the old days when the mightiest heroes really did throw about 10d6 and an average attack would bounce off Deathsinger's defenses completely.[/quote']

 

Not to mention Deathstroke's agent support, which was actually recruited in a clever and logical manner. I loved the concept behind the group from the Deathstroke adventure, of political revolutionaries presenting themselves as "crooks who are at least honest about it" unlike most politicians, and developed that element in my games. For that purpose the Fourth Edition reboot of the group was a good thing for me. When you're trying to influence public opinion to support your radical agenda, a public relations expert and his mind-controlling daughter can get you a lot of mileage.

 

1. Master Control: Master Control required a little bit of extra work to get into my campaign' date=' and a total background rewrite, but I loved the idea of an armored guy who wasn't really an armored guy, who was a vicious technology pirate so he could, among other things, become a better armored guy than he was. Special kudos to Sean Fannon for coming up with the STRIKE units, who my players CONTINUE to hate. This is one I'd LOVE to redo for 5th edition in Digital Hero, but I have too many other projects right now.[/quote']

 

Master Control provided half of one of the great villains of my past campaigns. The other half came from Lord Dire, in Champions of the North. Dire was so different from most supervillains in being disciplined, rational, genuinely wanting to change the world for the better (under his rule simply because he considered himself best qualified), and having worked out plans to achieve that. And it pleased me to have a fellow Canadian as one of the world's foremost masterminds. As written, though, Lord Dire was quite low powered compared to the 4E Champs standard, and had little in the way of supporting resources detailed for him.

 

Master Control's own lunacy seemed too much like so many other deranged villains to really interest me (no disrespect meant to Balabanto and his own taste in villains); but he proved surprisingly easy to graft onto Lord Dire. Both are powered-armor scientist villains, but Master Control was much more powerful and had a more fully developed organization behind him. Both characters' loss of their parents, and the effect it had on them, dovetailed nicely. Once I substituted Master Control's psionic amplifying equipment for Lord Dire's cyberkinetic implant (with the megalomania-inducing effect it had on him), and infused MC's followers with LD's vision of a better world, my villain was ready to take the world stage.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

Sticking to Champions ('cuz John Mill and Thomas Macaulay are not going to head many other "enemies" lists)

i) Tesseract (also Gyre, so maybe a split vote) has a very cool powerset with enormous plot potential.

 

If she was just a little more stable, she'd be up there for me too. With her powers and mindset she'd be a magnificent "support" member of a world-conquering supervillain team.

 

iv) Takofanes. He has ruled the world before' date=' and he's had a long time to cook up a plan. I cannot shake the feeling that he's behind some of the other mysterious things going on around the Heroverse --unlikely, unexpected things, like Mechanon, for example.[/quote']

 

Takofanes has been on modern Champions Earth for twenty years. I have to belief he's been cooking up something besides causing random death and destruction and chasing the Crowns of Krim. (In my own campaign his rampages were part of a grand sacrificial spell to turn the world back to the Turakian Age, with himself as ruler again.)

 

v) Arvad the Betrayer and his boys. He's not quite as grand as Darkseid (I'm hoping that a better Hero-Darkseid will turn up behind ARGENT)' date=' but close enough.[/quote']

 

In the current CU I believe that Doctor Destroyer is closest to Darkseid. Although he shares some background elements with Doctor Doom (certain origin features, and his superscience), in his power, attitude, resources, use of superpowered minions, the worship of his followers (in the Valley of Javangari), and the fearful respect in which he's held, Destroyer is very much in the mold of Darkseid IMO.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

I might as well bring up the rest of my top 5, although after Lung Hung I can't rank them in any particular order:

 

Mechanon 3000, from Galactic Champions. He's a moon-sized genocidal robotic head! If you don't get why that's cool just from the description, there's no point in my trying to explain it.

 

Malachite. Essentially the same schtick as Teleios, but born "perfect" rather than reborn. Somehow that fact makes his arrogance and amoral sociopathy ring truer to me. Teleios always strikes me as pathetically overcompensating for his past physical shortcomings.

 

"The Baron" (Baron Jean de'Lear), from The Mutant File. Okay, I guess I'm partial to immortal vampire masterminds. But the description of the Baron's history and personality were compelling to me. Frankly, as an ancient, profoundly experienced specimen of gothic vampire (the most powerful such creature yet written up in HERO terms), he seemed quite out of place as part of Genocide, despite the rationale for his involvement.

 

Taurus, of The Zodiac Conspiracy. Despite my reservations about the Zodiac as a group, the story of Taurus's millennia-long climb from bestial brute to sophisticated genius is one of the great comic-style-villain origins.

 

FWIW, my longest-lasting campaign world used Lung Hung, Taurus, the Baron, and Adrian Vandaleur as members of an Illuminati-like cabal of immortals manipulating the affairs of mortal men.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

Malachite. Essentially the same schtick as Teleios, but born "perfect" rather than reborn. Somehow that fact makes his arrogance and amoral sociopathy ring truer to me. Teleios always strikes me as pathetically overcompensating for his past physical shortcomings.

 

Yeah, he's a favorite. I just love the artwork for him in Enemies Unbound.

 

I've also got a lot of milage out of Mechanon. In my last campaign, one of the PCs was one of the team that designed his original form (yeah so I stole even more from the homage), so he was used a lot - this was in the campaign where supers just got started when I ran the game, and he was always trying to nice things for his "mother".

One early adventure was the PCs running into Ogre, who was created by Mechanon, as the perfect mate for the PC (he was all muscular and things, and in a basic perusing that was what he thought women wanted him) - so Ogre was slightly more intelligent, and in love with the PC. That led to some great Roleplaying.

 

The PCs ended up taking pity on him, and he was a recurring villian/foil, and the last time he was seen in the game he was the gladiatorial champion on Malva - He was happy he got to beat things up, the PCs had him out of their hair, and the Malvans were entertained. Win all around.

[Steve Long]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

I'm hoping that a better Hero-Darkseid will turn up behind ARGENT

 

I hate to disappoint you, but I can assure you this won't happen. ARGENT is run more like an evil corporation; there's no major master villain behind it -- certainly not anyone of Darkseid caliber.

 

If I were going to introduce anyone like that, it would probably be in the late 2008 book Champions Beyond. I'm not sure we need someone like that, what with Tyrannon and Istvatha V'han running around, but if I get inspired to create one you'll find him in Champions Beyond.

[Hermit]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

I hate to disappoint you, but I can assure you this won't happen. ARGENT is run more like an evil corporation; there's no major master villain behind it -- certainly not anyone of Darkseid caliber.

 

If I were going to introduce anyone like that, it would probably be in the late 2008 book Champions Beyond. I'm not sure we need someone like that, what with Tyrannon and Istvatha V'han running around, but if I get inspired to create one you'll find him in Champions Beyond.

 

Perhaps in another neighboring Galaxy. Andromeda already has some folks from it, but another Galaxy still fairly close (as interstellar distances go) could easily be adapted to be under the cruel thumb of some entropy obsessed star god with legions of sycophants.

 

Heck, given that the Empyreans had several of their elders head out into space to go after the Progenitors, you could even tie that in for the full Kirby like treatment.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

Solos:

 

Foxbat

Anklyosaur

Armadillo

Grond

 

Teams:

 

'Deathstroke' module era Deathstroke

original Ultimates

 

Master Villains:

 

original blue-armored Dr. Destroyer. Somewhat kooky schemes, major threat but not a god in armor.

[Kirby]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

...so Ogre was slightly more intelligent....

 

The PCs ended up taking pity on him, and he was a recurring villian/foil....

In about half the games I run, Ogre is (secretly) intelligent. He's been a mad scientist before using the facade of dumb brute to gather money and supplies.

 

More recently I've used him as a criminal mastermind (2nd or 3rd magnitude, at best) where he started out employed as muscle for an aspiring VIPER nest leader. When the PCs thwarted the initial robbery and Ogre was the last criminal standing, he stopped attacking (knowing he'd be beat anyway) and just "pouted" and complained about bullies and so forth. After he'd been in jail for a bit, a PC came to ask him some questions, and ogre "accidentally" revealed information of where to find the nest leader. (Saying things such as "I can't tell you where boss is because you'd go to Gross Pointe Gulch to get him," and "Street name looked like Peasant, but boss said it was a bird. Ogre no understand.") Ogre didn't like bullies (which he considered this nest leader) so didn't mind letting him get captured.

 

In a later plot involving an engineered prison break (Dystopia), Ogre escaped and was about to be caught. He threw a "tantrum" when he was on his back (a speedster kept knocking him off his feet) using an AoE attack causing a nearby building (one he had been standing on moments before) to fall, making the PC leave Ogre and perform a rescue mission.

 

Had that campaign continued, Ogre would have become the city's next VIPER nest leader (but with a non-snake theme) and a long-term plot would have involved unmasking him as such.

[Kirby]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

Heck' date=' given that the Empyreans had several of their elders head out into space to go after the Progenitors, you could even tie that in for the full Kirby like treatment.[/quote']Aw, shucks.

[MilkmanDan]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

Grond. A Hulk-esque monster with a great background (falls into nuclear waste, then gets hit by lightning diving into a polluted river). A great combination of potential humor and potential violence.

[Kirby]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

Grond. A Hulk-esque monster with a great background (falls into nuclear waste' date=' then gets hit by lightning diving into a polluted river). A great combination of potential humor and potential violence.[/quote']Heh, when I first started playing Champions, I always thought Ogre was the Hulk-type; Grond seemed a better write-up than the Hulk was at the time.

 

Oh well. Live and learn.

[Susano]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

Heh' date=' when I first started playing [b']Champions[/b], I always thought Ogre was the Hulk-type; Grond seemed a better write-up than the Hulk was at the time.

 

Oh well. Live and learn.

 

I always felt Ogre = Hulk, Grond = Abomination.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

This is going to sound funny, but the Golden Avenger - the one form the original Primus/Demon.

 

IN one game, his anti mutant stance made him a bigot, and he went villain-esque.

 

In another, I had supers appear at the start of the game, and he was anti-super rather than anti-mutant, and ended up as the white king of Genocide (Jeremiah Relm from Normals Unbound ended up the Black King).

 

Of all the published characters his use of as a villian has been the best the games I ran.

 

You ever play Champions in Upstate NY? Sounds just like a game I played in back in the mid-80s

[Sketchpad]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

This is a toughie. I've always had more love for the older villains than the newer ones. My top five would have to be (in no particular order):

1. Shamrock - I used to be on both sides of this character. The fights my characters had been in with him were always memoriable and the times I used him were always fun. I still use him in my campaigns as a Juggernaut-level villain

2. Foxbat - I LOVE using Foxbat in my campaigns. To this day, when my players heat certain music or are called in on certain crimes, they cringe knowing that 'Bat is on the loose

3. Deathstroke - The guys I loved to hate. I can't tell you how many times I went toe to toe with these guys. At one point, I was tempted to go against my CvK just to finish them off

4. Classic COIL - I dig the old COIL. Always reminded me of the Serpent Society mixed with COBRA/ COBRA Law

5. Classic Demon - I always liked the old Demon. Just don't care for the new book ... too dark for my taste.

Honorable Mentions - Doc Destroyer, Slug, Mongoose, Monster, Hideous, Gremlin

[OctoberRaven]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

Me, I'm a fan of Black Harlequin. And of course I also have a place for the Foxbat.

 

I tend to like the less-world-destroying-potential villains. Out of those, though, I have to pick Gravitar as my favorite.

 

Pulsar is another one I like if only for the Morgan Fairchild thing.

[Dead guy on tab]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

I always felt Ogre = Hulk' date=' Grond = Abomination.[/quote']

 

I always thought of Ogre as the dumb brick type (e.g. Solomon Grundy, most Hulk). I always that of Grond as a relatively intelligent brick (ala the Thing or Joe Fixit Hulk). All the picture of Grond in classic Enemies is missing is a cigar in one hand, a beer in a second hand, a six pack in the third hand and a giant sandwich in the fourth hand. I see Grond like the Hulk in one way though. With his background, I would have Grond change his personality anhytime he was hit with a mutagen (radiation, strange chemicals, etc.). Heck with the different images, Grond could change his form everytime he is hit with a mutagen.

[Lord Fyre]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

I am going to have to go with Black Paladin (Conquerors, Killers, and Crooks p. 126) He has the qualities to be a good leader for a team of Mystic Villians, without being overly powerful himself.

 

Also I find his backstory a good source for scenario ideas. The pathos of his own "lost love," the mythic ties to Camalot, and his anti-Christian beliefs. And, as a GM, I find Witchcraft's quote a good insiration for role-playing him.

"Maybe his evil grows, in part, from a frustrated desire to be better then the role circumstances cast him in."

[Cardinal]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

I always that of Grond as a relatively intelligent brick (ala the Thing or Joe Fixit Hulk).

 

umm... doesn't Grond have 5 Int?

[Susano]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

umm... doesn't Grond have 5 Int?

 

I think so... he's never been very smart.

[OzMike]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

My 5 favourites (in no particular order):

 

Bulldozer (4th ed Classic Enemies)

In games I've played and run I love it when this guy appears. For the most part, he is a relatively safe punching bag for most PCs, and often gets played along the lines of The Black Knight from Monty Python's Holy Grail crossed with a mysoginistic professional wrestler heel.

 

Black Paladin (4th ed, New Millenium and 5th ed versions)

There is just something cool and archaic about a knight in modern day who can quite often whip a whole super team if played intelligently and evilly (which suits him). Let alone if you give him that dragon.

 

Steel Brigade (pre 4th ed Strike Force)

For some reason a team of powered armor mercenaries is scarily appealing. And those guys were tough (even if one of my characters pretty much killed the whole lot in a single, bloody firefight).

 

VIPER 5 Teams (pre 4th Adventuerers Club)

At a time before the excellent 4th ed VIPER sourcebook, the write up of VIPER 5 Teams in an Adventurers Club changed the way I ran agents forever. And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

Rainbow Archer (4th ed Classic Enemies)

I liked this character and still do. A lot. As do many.

[TheTemplar]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

I'll 2nd the vote for BH as my personal favorite (can't believe all these posts and only 2 mentions of the CU's most maniacal Clown!) I also really dig Teleios, as Hermit said, as a behind the scenes kind of guy.

 

But, from a pure combat perspective, I'd have to give that nod to Eurostar. Team tactics, efficiency, and a bag full of dirty tricks to boot. They run like a well oiled machine... and The Defenders absolutely HATE them. I don't have the heart to tell them how much worse it would be w/ 4th Ed. Eurostar featuring Bora and The Whip... well.. ok, Bora.

[Dead guy on tab]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

umm... doesn't Grond have 5 Int?

 

I'm not sure. I consider doing this to differentiate Grond from Ogre. Ogre's INT is also low.

[Kirby]

Re: Who Is... Your Favorite Villain?

 

I'm not sure. I consider doing this to differentiate Grond from Ogre. Ogre's INT is also low.

Both Grond and Ogre have a 5 INT. Ogre does have one noncombat skill, though. In CKC, he has KS: Superhuman world 8-. In TUB, it's improved to 12-.