Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

[Susano]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

Well, this does seem like the most appropriate location for it, and the people who visit this forum are probably the ones most likely to make use of it.

 

Perhaps you could add a link to this thread in your signature? You get around enough that that would likely provide thorough coverage.

 

It will be going up on my website (of course).

[Susano]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

Someone on another mailing list has pointed out that I should mention the following:

 

Use and abuse of Naked Advantages (i.e. how to avoid them).

 

Some words about Power Frameworks (Elemental Controls, Multipowers, and VPPs).

 

Also, I should make it very clear there is no reason your adaptaion should balance point wise.

 

Thoughts?

[OddHat]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

Someone on another mailing list has pointed out that I should mention the following:

 

Use and abuse of Naked Advantages (i.e. how to avoid them).

 

Some words about Power Frameworks (Elemental Controls, Multipowers, and VPPs).

 

Also, I should make it very clear there is no reason your adaptaion should balance point wise.

 

Thoughts?

 

The last point, on point balance, really has to be made. Hero gamers can get very Rainman about point balance; some of us need a reminder that just because a CU sourcebook says "Player Characters in Genre X should be built on Y points" is no reason to insist that fictional characters follow those guidelines.

 

Power frameworks wise, I'll be very interested in your take on it. I'd say that many fictional characters have VPPs of one sort or another (almost all spell casters and gadgeteers), usually with at least -1/4 Limited Group of Powers Available (Spells/Gadgets with X limits), and a -0 "At the Writer's Whim" limitation.

[Zed-F]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

Power frameworks wise' date=' I'll be very interested in your take on it. I'd say that many fictional characters have VPPs of one sort or another (almost all spell casters and gadgeteers), usually with at least -1/4 Limited Group of Powers Available (Spells/Gadgets with X limits), and a -0 "At the Writer's Whim" limitation.[/quote']

I'd even go so far as to say that many fictional action heroes have a small VPP for superskills. Particularly the ones that do impossible or near-impossible things regularly.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

Nice article... I've Copy/Pasted to an Open Office Document... it's got some really great advice.

[Enforcer84]

Enforcer's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

1) Get the fictional character you want to use in mind

2) Spend a few hours googling said character (specifically images as you'll want a good one)

3) Wing it baby!

4) Try too look undaunted when Susano beats you with a stick.

[Susano]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

I will be expanding on this article. I intend to add a note in the beginning dealing with the "why" of adapting fictional characters, a note towards the end commenting on not obsessing about the point totals, and a few comments about Power Frameworks.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

I will be expanding on this article. I intend to add a note in the beginning dealing with the "why" of adapting fictional characters' date=' a note towards the end commenting on not obsessing about the point totals, and a few comments about Power Frameworks.[/quote']

I'll be looking forward to it!!!

[TheRavenIs]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

IOU REP again!!!

 

 

Wow!

 

 

QM

 

so does TRI

[Vondy]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

Well done.

[Korvar]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

I, also, must spread rep.

[Mentor]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

PART II: FASTER THAN A SPEEDING BULLET' date=' MORE POWERFUL THAN A LOCOMOTIVE -- CHARACTERISTICS[/b']

 

Probably the hardest part of the character for you, the writer, to quantify is a character's characteristics. The reason for this is simple -- characteristics are highly relative. For example, Person A may feel that Spider-Man has a 30 DEX, while another may say he has a 36, or a 38, or 43, or.... Well, you get the idea. There is no real hard and fast rule for settling on a characteristic value, other than to try and consider how the character relates to his world (and just his world, and not other characters from other series). By that, I mean don't start handing out 30 DEXs just because a character is said to be blinding fast. Take a step back and consider what the character's world is like. Is it filled with mostly normal humans? Then blinding fast might mean a DEX of only 18, or 20, or maybe 21-23. This also holds true for other characteristics as well. In this section I'll briefly look at the standard HERO Characteristics and offer suggestions for how to come up with a reasonable HERO System value for them.

 

STR: Of all the Characteristics, STR is the easiest to quantify. The reason is simple -- we already know how much most things weigh. If a character picks something up, odds are we can figure out his STR score from that. Myself, I use a formula first presented in the Fuzion core rules set: take the max amount the character can lift over his head, double it to find what he can lift to his waist, and then double it again to see what he can lift to around his ankles. While this isn't exactly the same as the lifting formulas given in The Ultimate Brick, I like them as they give me nice round numbers and are neatly "cinematic." Sometimes you're lucky enough to be handed this information directly, as was the case with Ann O'Brien (of Monkyman and O'Brien). There's a comic panel of her lifting a 1,600 lb. barbell over her head. Using my formula, you get 1,600 x 2 = 3,200 x 2 = 6,400 lb. total lift (or a 35 STR). In the case of Mr. Extraordinary (from PS238), he is seen lifting a Sturmpanzerwagen AV7 up over his head. A little research shows the AV7 weighs in at 33,500 kg, for a total lifting capacity of 134,000 kg, or a roughly 63 STR. Of course, not every character you want to convert is seen lifting some sort of weight overhead, but it gives you a good rough estimate to work with. Conan, for example, repeatedly wrestles with apes, giant snakes, knocks men out with a single punch, and hurls a massive bench of solid silver at a foe. Giving him a 25 STR just seems "right."

 

DEX: This is where you, the writer, need to make your first real judgment call. DEX is one of the most relative characteristics and often open to a great deal of debate. My suggestion is to try and relate the character to the world around him. If he gets into a fight, how does he do? How many guys does he tackle at once? Can he hit them all with a single attack? Does he get hit in return? If so, how often? Does the character admit to being slow? (Harry Dresden of The Dresden Files does.) Or are his actions a blinding flurry of speed? Going back to Conan, he is repeatedly described as being fast, with his speed likened to that of various great cats. Max, from the film The Road Warrior, is shown grabbing a venomous snake before it can strike (hence the quote "I never seen a man beat a snake before. Reflexes, that's what you've got. Reflexes."). In these cases, we can look in The HERO System Bestiary to get an idea of what sort of DEX score might be appropriate. The great cats are given DEXs in the low 20s, so taking REH literally, I gave Conan a 23 DEX. Max, on the other hand, was given a 17 DEX (to beat the snake's 14 DEX) with +2 Lightning Reflexes to represent his "reflexes." With other characters, think about what they can do and what sort of training they have, and try comparing them to the various sample Normals found in the 5th Edition rulebook. If the character gets into fights with Talented Normals and comes out okay, then he probably has a DEX (and/or Combat Skill Levels) higher than a Talented Normal. I also recommend looking at the various Package Deals found in different genre books. Some of them, such as the Special Forces packages in Dark Champions, or the various Fighter packages in Fantasy Hero, include Characteristics bonuses.

 

CON: Much like DEX, CON is a relative Characteristic. However, here one has a slightly better idea for how "tough" a person is and/or should be. A normal human has a CON of 8-10. A slightly "tougher" human has a CON of 12-13, while a Talented Normal has a CON of 14-15. So determining a character's CON is often just a matter of logic. If he sits at a desk all day, a CON of 8-10 is best. If he's at least nominally active, a CON of 10-12. If he's a trained soldier, then a CON of 14-15. An Olympic athlete or professional boxer? CON of 18-20. A superhero? CON of 21+. Also consider how physically durable the character is. Elric (Elric of Melanibone) is said to be so weak some days he couldn't lift himself out of bed. This sounds like a CON of 3 to me. Conan, on the other hand is nigh-impossible to stun and tends to shrug-off adverse environmental effects. He has to have a CON of over 20 and I settled on 25, which while high, does fit the virtually superhuman vitality and endurance attributed to him by Robert E. Howard.

 

BODY: This score is treated much like CON. How hard is the character to kill? (Not hurt, that's PD and ED.) Once again, keep in mind Joe Normal human has a BODY of 8-10. Larger than normal people should have a few extra points (at least). Action heroes also have extra BODY, and Bruce Willis (or, his Die Hard characters anyway) is the poster boy for 20 BODY. Personally, I don't tend to give out high BODY scores unless I feel the character is really that hard to kill. Of course, since most characters you're adapting live though whatever their creator throws at them, one needs to use a little common sense.

 

INT: When selecting a value for this Characteristic, I try to keep in mind that HERO System INT reflects how fast the character thinks, not how smart they are. Still, people who aren't all that smart (in terms of IQ) tend not to be quick on the uptake, while many super-intelligent people are more methodical thinkers and spend a lot of time considering a problem before resolving it (i.e. a person is who "stupid" probably doesn't have a high INT score, while a scientist with an IQ of 180 might only have an effective INT of 10 or so). A few points of INT are suitable for people who react quickly to changing situations, even if they are otherwise of a normal intellectual level. Of course, one shouldn't forget such concepts as "animal cunning" and "insane genius" allowing a supposedly "dimwitted" character to have an INT far higher than anyone might expect. In addition, don't forget about PER bonuses. Just because a character is intellectually a "moron" doesn't mean they can't have a keen sense of hearing and the over-all wariness to react to an unusual noise. Also don't let preconceived notions about a character fool you. Most people think Conan is just another stupid sword-swinging barbarian. Trust me, anyone who can speak roughly 15 languages is no dummy.

 

EGO: EGO is willpower and self-confidence. Anyone who shows a lot of either (or both) should have a higher than normal EGO. Elric, for example, bargains with demons and gods and in many cases treats them almost like an equal. Both Daffy and Donald Duck have a distinct lack of self-control, with Donald flying off the handle at the slightest provocation. Thus, Elric probably has an EGO of 20 or better, while either of the Ducks have an EGO of 8, or even less. These are, of course, extreme examples, but it lets you know what to look for. Characters who have had some sort of assertiveness training -- such as many martial artists, police officers, and soldiers, should have a few points of EGO, defined as improved self-confidence. Wizards, priests, and others who demonstrate strong self-control should have even higher EGO scores. Gandalf, for example, stands firm before a oncoming Balrog and a Nazagul; giving him an EGO of 30 or so seems about right!

 

PRE: PRE is like EGO -- some people should have more of it almost automatically. Once again, police officers, soldiers (well, commanding officers), and those used to giving orders (and having them obeyed) should have high PRE scores. Captain America is the perfect example of this. He stands firm in the face of adversity (indicating a high EGO), but also can rally others to his cause with just a few words (meaning he has a high natural Presence). Batman is another example -- he terrifies thugs simply by showing up (usually). Both men have PRE scores of at least 20, with Captain American probably having a 30 or so. Batman might have a 40 (in costume), or he might simply always take advantage of having a Reputation and using the environment to get large PRE Attack bonuses. You also need to consider using Limited PRE (such as "Only To Defend Against Presence Attacks" (-1)) for characters who don't impress others well, but also don't get scared easily. Spider-Man for example. He doesn't give many villains pause -- in fact, if he shows up they often sneer and get ready to fight -- but by the same token, he doesn't back down from threats.

 

COM: Unlike almost all other Characteristics, COM is more subjective than relative. As the saying goes, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," and one person's drop dead gorgeous might just be another's dog ugly. Still, one can often get a good feel for a character's COM by how other characters react to them. Oscar Gordon (Glory Road) states he isn't handsome, has a broken nose, and a scarred face. COM? 8 (although Star, Empress of 20 Universes did call him "handsome"). On the other hand, Urd (Oh, My Goddess!) is 5'6", curvaceous, with naturally tanned skin and flowing white ankle-length hair. Sexy personified, she easily warrants a COM of 26 or better. James Bond has women fall all over him, and has a certain look to him that women seem to desire. Not only does he have a high PRE score, but a 20 COM to go with it. In setting COM scores for characters I tend to go for a sort of "gut feeling." 8-10 for normal looks, 12-14 for people who are in shape and reasonable fit and attractive, 16-18 for "movie-star/model" looks, and 20+ for those characters who most anyone calls "hot" (Chun Li [Street Fighter] for example). Also remember that COM is human-centric. While you and I might think an orc is COM 6 for having rough skin, scraggly hair, tusks, and what not, that might be the height of orcish beauty.

 

PD & ED: Getting a character's defenses right can be a tad tricky. Especially these days, what with STUN Only Damage Reduction and Combat Luck. A good rule to work with is to increase a character's base PD and ED by 1.5. So a 10 STR normal who's not a fighter gets a PD of 3, making him a little tougher than a Normal, which is often about right for many cinematic and literary characters. Of course, for characters who get into physical confrontations a lot, as well as trained martial artists and other "tough guys." one should consider doubling the base PD & ED. With superhero conversions, give the character what ever seems right -- if he can bounce bullets easily, then the character needs a PD of around 20 or so (fully resistant). And don't forget to look for clues to the character's toughness in the source material. The description for Superman (circa 1938-39) stats "...and that nothing less than a bursting shell could penetrate his skin!" which sounds like a PD of 25 or so (also fully resistant).

 

SPD: In the early days of Champions and the HERO System if you wanted to attack more often, you bought more SPD. These days, with Rapid Attack, Rapid Fire, Autofire skills, Sweep, and so on, you can dish out a lot of damage in only one Phase. I try to keep this in mind when selecting a SPD for a character, and have become somewhat conservative in that regard. A SPD of 2 is used for anyone who is obviously totally normal, with no combat training (Janet Bhai from Black Lagoon for example). A SPD of 3 is good for police officers, soldiers, and experienced martial artists. A SPD of 4 is used for highly competent fighters and many (if not all) cinematic action heroes. SPDs of 5 and up are given to those who either A) consistently out maneuver foes, or are simply that fast. A prime example of a 6 SPD is Bruce Lee in Enter The Dragon. In this film he constantly evades and blocks attacks from multiple foes and has the chance to strike back. The same goes for Jackie Chan and Jet Li, as well as Deunan Knute from the manga Appleseed, who engages in the one prime indicators of a high SPD -- how many comic panels she gets as opposed to everyone else. When dealing with comics characters this is often a good indicator of how fast someone should be -- Deunan, Daredevil, and Spider-Man all are shown doing a lot in either a rapid series of panels, or doing one extended action in just a single panel (usually while obviously slower characters just stand there).

 

REC, END, STUN: These values are probably the least important to capturing the look and feel of a character. I tend to leave these values as figured, although I might round up STUN a bit to the nearest 0 or 5 (i.e. a 29 STUN becomes a 30 STUN). On the other hand, if you bump up these stats too much, you might as well as bump up the character's CON. END, however, might get a huge boost, if I feel the character seems to have a lot of energy to expend on powers, but isn't physically much tougher than a normal human (Harry Dresden seems to fit this mold, as he has a lot of magical energy, but isn't much tougher [CON-wise] than anyone else). Of course, this might indicate some sort of END Reserve as well.

This section should be Sticky and read by all Hero gamers.

 

Can't rep you yet, Mike.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

I'd tend to agree with Mentor... it applies pretty much to the system as a whole, not just adaptations.

 

All-in-all though, it's just such a good article when you put it all together.

[Comic]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

PART III: POWERS AND ABILITIES FAR BEYOND THOSE OF MORTAL MEN

 

.... Mushizo is a character in the anime Ninja Scroll. He has a wasp's next growing out of his back (yes, it looks as nasty as it sounds) which contains thousands and thousands of wasps..

 

 

Sorry.

 

next/nest

 

Blue pencil got the better of me.

 

But.. awesome article!

[Susano]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

I have edited and expanded this. Should I redo the initial posts, or simply post the revised sections at the tail end of the thread?

 

(Should this be stickyed?)

[Susano]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?... Bueller?... Bueller? Anyone? Anyone?

[OzMike]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

I think it's got a nice beat and you can dance to it.... I give it 7.8.

[OddHat]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

I have edited and expanded this. Should I redo the initial posts, or simply post the revised sections at the tail end of the thread?

 

(Should this be stickyed?)

 

I'd suggest re-doing the original posts; easier for first time readers that way.

 

And I stickied the thread.

[Susano]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

I'd suggest re-doing the original posts; easier for first time readers that way.

 

And I stickied the thread.

 

Will do, and making it a stickey makes it easier for the new readers to find it.

[Lucius]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

(Should this be stickyed?)

 

Yes.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And a sticky palindromedary

[Spence]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

I have edited and expanded this. Should I redo the initial posts, or simply post the revised sections at the tail end of the thread?

 

(Should this be stickyed?)

 

Yes

[Edsel]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

If you do a revised version of this I request that you make a copy in a format that can be downloaded (say RTF or something like that). I cut and pasted the original posts into a Word document so I could read them while off line.

 

This is wonderful work.

[Susano]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

If you do a revised version of this I request that you make a copy in a format that can be downloaded (say RTF or something like that). I cut and pasted the original posts into a Word document so I could read them while off line.

 

This is wonderful work.

 

I will.

[Kdansky]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

in a format that can be downloaded (say RTF or something like that)

I may be very main-streamish, but .pdf is rather nice

[Tigereye]

Re: Susano's Guide to Adapting Fictional Characters to HERO

 

Having actually used your site for the basis of my PC (which answers the rather odd question, what if James Bond was in a four-color, X-Men style comic book?), I cannot but enjoy your article.

 

Now that you mention it, tho, I'll have to raise my PRE and COM a bit higher...(I've already got a Seduction of 18-!) And my character thinks fast on his feet- a spot of higher INT may also be in order...

 

Boy, a lot to think about. Wish I could give rep, but I'm still a newb here.