How would you build missles comic style

[CaptD]

In Comics they have Heatseeking missles that will follow a target until it finds another heat source. (Like in the Fantastic four movie). How would you build something like this.

[Warp9]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

I know of a missile build which is similar to what you might be looking for.

 

You start with what ever attack you want to have for your missile (maybe 12d6 Explosion), and then add a very high OCV.

 

You roll to "lock on" with your missile, but the roll to "lock on" is actually your roll to hit; if you hit, then the missile locks on.

 

Now, in theory you should have already hit, so, if your missile might not hit after this point, or if it might hit some other target, it is actually a limitation on your attack.

 

The slower the missile moves, and the less maneuverable the missile is, the larger the limitation on the attack.

 

That is my $0.02

[Warp9]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

Maybe I should add a suggestion to my post above. . . .

 

If I were doing the missile, I'd do it as was suggested, with the hit/lock on thing, then I'd put a penny down on my game map to simulate the missile.

 

I'd give the missile a velocity and a turn mode (the SPD could be based upon the person shooting the missile), and have it go toward its target. If, during its travel, it gets facing into a lager heat source, it would lock on to that instead (new hit roll, same as before, if it misses it stays with the old target).

 

Again it has already hit, so if the missile's velocity is HUGE and it can turn on a dime, that just means it is pretty much guaranteed to hit (as it should have anyway).

 

For something a bit more comic-like, you might give the missile a velocity of 20" and a turn mode of 4, and watch it chase it's target around.

[CaptD]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

Do you think I should build it as a vehicle?

[Warp9]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

Do you think I should build it as a vehicle?

 

No, I wouldn't go that far.

 

All you need is a point on the map where the missile is, then give it velocity and a turn mode, and assume that it moves as directly as possible toward its current target.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

I think Warp9's approach is workable. You can set the limitation based on how often, and how fast,the missile moves, how many chances it gets to hit the target and add the Physical Manifestation limitation for the fact the missile can be shot out of the sky. While there is the drawback that the missile may not end up hitting, it has an advantage of forcing characters to waste phases trying to avoid it or take it out.

 

Another, more complex, approach is to build the missile either as a vehicle (as you suggest) or an automaton. This makes the missile its own "character" on the map, moving at its movement speed and on its own phases. The character using the missiles buys a Summon power to bring the misile into play (ie fire it on a target). This is much more complex, but also less abstract. The missile with a 3 SPD and 15" Flight will clearly cost less than the one with 8 SPD, 40" flight. While more complex, this may better simulate the feel, with differing missiles having different DCV's, defenses and BOD, as well as variable SPD and flightspeed.

[OddHat]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

The official answer is to build it as a Vehicle or Automaton. The character uses Summon to "fire" the missile, then the missile chases the target. The drawback is that you need an extra character sheet (or two if the missile has an AI), and it does present balance issues (like many uses of Summon). The advantage is that the missile can keep chasing the target, phase after phase, without further actions on the part of the attacker and without piling on limitations and advantages to simulate the missile's behavior.

 

You can of course just build an EB with whatever limits and advantages you like and call it a missile; there's usually more than one answer to a power build question in HERO.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

Additionally, and this is the important thing, you need to build the weapon/vehicle with the limitation "Based on Infrared (-1/2)" or something similar, in other words, if I drop flares my Darkness from the Flares throws off the missile.

 

Another option, now that I'm thinking about it, would go something like this:

 

IR acts as its sense; it replaces vision, for purposes of this argument. You then build your Flares & Chaff, instead of the usual Darkness, as Flash. Your "ECM Defense" becomes Flash Defense (to defend against the effects of the flares) and voila. Once Flashed, the missile recovers and must re-establish lock-on. Now you fall into the realm of GM option.

 

Under GMO, if you have an additional available heat source, the missile might lock onto it instead. Or, if you want to do the classic "missile explodes for no reason" then you can have the missile chase the flares (as part of its Flash) and then bada-boom.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

First off you have to clearly define what you want eh missile to do.

 

I am not, by and large, keen on building missiles as vehicles because, by and large, they are ridiculously cheap for the utility and the balancing factor (cost) is rarely an issue in the sort of games I play. Your experience may be different.

 

Looking at it as a power...

 

Presumably a 'homing missile' would need the following characteristics:

 

1. Be able to do damage at range.

2. Make multiple attempts to hit, each one costing 'time'

3. Be capable of being targetted and destroyed

4. Be capable of making mistakes (so it can be fooled into hitting the wrong target)

 

Here's one option:

 

4d6 RKA 60 points

+10 OCV with RKA 20 points

 

Total 80 points

 

Now apply the following limtiations:

 

Each +1 OCV needed to accomplish the hit delays the damage by 1 phase (say -1/2) (so, assuming the missile firer has an OCV of 8, and the target has a DCV of 10, and a 14 is rolled, the 'hit' will be delayed by 5 phases)

 

Missile is capable of being targetted and destroyed (OCV 10, DEF 4, 4 BODY) on any delayed phase (-1/4)

 

Missile is capable of being evaded or re-targetted by target (-1/4 to -1, depending on how easy that is).

 

You might also want focus and charges and such, but that should accomplish the homing missile basics.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

Here's one option:

 

4d6 RKA 60 points

+10 OCV with RKA 20 points

 

Total 80 points

 

Now apply the following limtiations:

 

Each +1 OCV needed to accomplish the hit delays the damage by 1 phase (say -1/2) (so, assuming the missile firer has an OCV of 8, and the target has a DCV of 10, and a 14 is rolled, the 'hit' will be delayed by 5 phases)

 

Missile is capable of being targetted and destroyed (OCV 10, DEF 4, 4 BODY) on any delayed phase (-1/4)

 

Missile is capable of being evaded or re-targetted by target (-1/4 to -1, depending on how easy that is).

 

You might also want focus and charges and such, but that should accomplish the homing missile basics.

 

Let's assume the missile can neither be evaded nor re-targetted. A 4d6 RKA, Physical manifestation (-1/4) costs 48 points.

 

Your 4d6 RKA, +10 OCV, Physical Manifestation (-1/4), extra time to hit (-1/2) costs 46. Is this reasonable? I get the opportunity to hit on most rolls that miss, although it will happen later, and I get 2 points BACK as a consequence. That doesn't seem like an appropriate result.

 

To me, the limitations beyond the Physical Manifestation (ie it can be shot down) do not limit the attack itself. That 4d6 RKA suffers no loss in utility. It will still hit on the phase fired, like any other RKA if you roll a successful to hit roll. Only the bonus OCV is truly limited.

 

It would seem more appropriate to limit each OCV bonus with appropriate levels of Extra Time, and halve the limitation for the fact that only enough Extra Time to accomplish the task (none if the OCV bonus is not neeeded) is required.

 

Of course, this assumes we allow 2 point levels with limitations, instead of making them 5 point levels, but that would mean it's cheaper to buy +1 OCV directly than +1 OCV with limitations, which is a poor (albeit by the book) result. I'd be inclined to let the player buy bonus OCV with the Extra Time issue for less than 2 points per +1 OCV to make this work.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

Agreed. 4d6 RKA with Physical Manifestation and limited OCV levels.

 

Never really did understand why you could only limit levels of 5 points or higher, except possibly to make equipment artificially more expensive.

 

Mind you the evading/retargetting thing with missiles is a comic book staple - it would be a shame to not include that and it would definitely affect the utility of the damaging element fo the construct.

[CaptD]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

My intention is to make missles that they can evade, out run or get it to target another heat source ect...

 

If I wanted a simple attack I can go with 4d6 rka explosion and be done. It's just going to track heat sources. And I agree the retracking and being able to shoot them down are both comic staples.

[JmOz]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

My intention is to make missles that they can evade, out run or get it to target another heat source ect...

 

If I wanted a simple attack I can go with 4d6 rka explosion and be done. It's just going to track heat sources. And I agree the retracking and being able to shoot them down are both comic staples.

 

Then you should use Summon Missile, build the missile as an automation

[Spence]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

Then you should use Summon Missile' date=' build the missile as an automation[/quote']

 

That I pretty much how I do mine. I usually use an End Res for the flight which is what limits their ability to attack.

 

The Summon Missile is is usually One Being using charges so there can only be one missle in flight at a time. Note I am speaking of shoulder launchers.

 

I have had Mecha that can crack off six missiles a launch which has caused the supers to do some fancy flying

[CaptD]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

What do you think about this.

 

Val Char Cost

0 STR -10

30 DEX 60

4 CON -12

1 BODY -18

10 INT 0

0 EGO 0

0 PRE -10

0 COM -5

 

4 PD 4

4 ED 3

4 SPD 0

0 REC -2

8 END 0

 

6" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

0" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 10

 

Cost Power END

30 Flight 15" 3

3 Endurance Reserve (30 END, 0 REC) 0

20 Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 4d6, Explosion (+1/2) (90 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Side Effects - Destroys automation when used. (-1), No STR Bonus (-1/2) [1]

5 Infrared Perception (Sight Group) 0

Powers Cost: 58

 

Total Character Cost: 68

 

Val Disadvantages

0 Psychological Limitation - Always Targets Nearest and Hottest Heat Source.: (Uncommon, Moderate, Custom Adder)

 

 

 

 

To summon 4 of these it will cost him 24 points. This is for a villian so I might be over thinking this a bit.

[CaptD]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

Spence, thats what this guy has...Shoulder launchers. I

[McCoy]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

My intention is to make missles that they can evade' date=' out run or get it to target another heat source ect...[/quote']

 

Then you should use Summon Missile' date=' build the missile as an automation[/quote']

 

What JmOz said. It gets its own character sheet, with its own DEX, SPD, and INT. If you want it to follow heat sources give it IR vision and the Physical Limitation "Blind to visible light." When the character tries to get it to follow a different heat source, it makes a PER roll. If the PER roll fails, it was fooled. To evade, a DEX roll vs DEX roll contest. If you want them to be able to shoot it down, low defenses and low BODY.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

What do you think about this.

 

Val Char Cost

0 STR -10

30 DEX 60

4 CON -12

1 BODY -18

10 INT 0

0 EGO 0

0 PRE -10

0 COM -5

 

4 PD 4

4 ED 3

4 SPD 0

0 REC -2

8 END 0

 

6" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

0" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 10

 

Cost Power END

30 Flight 15" 3

3 Endurance Reserve (30 END, 0 REC) 0

20 Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 4d6, Explosion (+1/2) (90 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Side Effects - Destroys automation when used. (-1), No STR Bonus (-1/2) [1]

5 Infrared Perception (Sight Group) 0

Powers Cost: 58

 

Total Character Cost: 68

 

Val Disadvantages

0 Psychological Limitation - Always Targets Nearest and Hottest Heat Source.: (Uncommon, Moderate, Custom Adder)

 

 

 

 

To summon 4 of these it will cost him 24 points. This is for a villian so I might be over thinking this a bit.

 

I would probably beef up its stats a bit (a normal with a Saturday Night Special can shoot this thing out of the sky, if he can hit it).

 

Should probably have the Automaton 'No Stun' power, which makes it a true Automaton. Lessee ... a Phys Lim: No senses other than Infrared Perception. I'd put the Flight on a Fuel Charge, but that's a personal preference thing.

[Clonus]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

In Comics they have Heatseeking missles that will follow a target until it finds another heat source. (Like in the Fantastic four movie). How would you build something like this.

 

I build heatseeking missiles as rather stupid automatons.

[CaptD]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

I would probably beef up its stats a bit (a normal with a Saturday Night Special can shoot this thing out of the sky' date=' if he can hit it).[/quote']

 

Good Point. I looked at the fuel charge but figured it wouldn't be around long enough to bother.

[Spence]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

Spence' date=' thats what this guy has...Shoulder launchers. I[/quote']

 

Let me dig up a couple of my old write-ups and send/post them.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

Agreed. 4d6 RKA with Physical Manifestation and limited OCV levels.

 

Never really did understand why you could only limit levels of 5 points or higher, except possibly to make equipment artificially more expensive.

 

Mind you the evading/retargetting thing with missiles is a comic book staple - it would be a shame to not include that and it would definitely affect the utility of the damaging element fo the construct.

 

I'm essentially here in the discussion - I'm not a great fan of the summon [vehicle] approaches.

 

I'm wondering whether the OCV of the firer should come into it? Should anyone be able to fire a homing missile with equal ability? Does your agility in combat have that much effect? Was wondering whether the missile might have a base CV regardless of firer - so, for example, the missile fires at CV 8 and has 10 levels. That means it should hit most people but that more agile folk will have more opportunity to shoot it down or distract it to another target.

 

I'm wondering how fast it moves. Could someone simply outrun it in the time they had. For example, if someone was to be hit in four phases, could they push their movement and get outside the range of the missile? I'm assuming the answer to that is yes? Thus avoiding what was essentially a good,'to-hit' roll.

 

How do you get it to 'hit' a wrong target. Should the target have a chance of using a dummy target and getting the missile to get a wrong lock? How does that work? A base INT/PER roll modified by the GM for circumstances?

 

 

Doc

[Inu]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

3d6RKA AP, uncontrollable, 1 continuing charge lasting one minute, physical manifestation.

[Inu]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

Since continuing uncontrollable effects need a condition in which they stop working, you can say that the missile is destroyed (Attack ends) if the target makes a very good acrobatics check (making it fly into an object and explode), or other situations (such as spoofing it with flares). Might also add in that the attack is suppressed (not happening that round, but not going away, either) if the target flies faster than X inches per turn -- IE, outrunning it.

[braincraft]

Re: How would you build missles comic style

 

That seems like an elegant way of doing it, but does uncontrollable mean that there continue to be attack rolls, or that you either hit or miss and the effect continues? It seems that one of the biggest benefits of this sort of attack is that your target must burn actions to evade it.