Immune to Magic

[woerth]

I have a character that has a unique ability in that he can dampen and effect Magic around him. He naturally does it. I am curious how others would demonstrate this.

 

I have given him several abilities. Power Defense, Mental Defense, Armor and Flash Defense (only versus magical attacks), + to presense to resist magical presense attacks.

 

I am also thinking of a suppress always on? Basically I don't want him to have think or react to an attack. His natural defense protect him. Any thoughts?

 

Brian

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

It gets expensive fast to produce anything like an absolute, and, even then, it might not do what you like.

 

For his game, Josh created a custom power. I believe it cost 40 points, unless it also worked on beneficial magic; that counted as a -1.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

Trying to buy a defense vs everything only vs Magic will get too expensive.

 

If you want a true 100% Invulnerability to a SFX, I recommend a flat 60 point power modeled on 100% Resistant Damage Reduction, extrapolated out to 120 points based on the normal pricing model of Damage Reduciton, with a -1 for "Only vs Single SFX".

 

Direct magical effects, harmful or beneficial both, simply have no effect on a character with such an ability.

 

Thats the most straightforward approach with the least amount of unintended side effects, IMO.

[Coyotecloudchas]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

Talent: Immunity to Magic

 

Basically that's it. Buy it like an immunity to iocaine poison. The GM will tell you how much he thinks it will cost depending on the advantages and disadvantages he perceives it is. Its a plot device.

 

For example, will not being to receive magical healing or use magic items severely handicap your character? If so it may not need to cost a lot of points, or you may also get a Disadvantage for the negative aspects.

On the other hand, if all your GM's enemy NPCs are mages who are rendered impotent by your Talent then he/she may make it cost 100+ points, if he allows it at all.

 

Oh, and if its an NPC, who cares how many points it costs. Its a plot device.

[Coyotecloudchas]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

OH, but if you're just looking to DIMINISH magic effects and not cancel them out, I have two suggestions:

 

1) High Power: the old Supress vs. ALL Magic, Dmg Shield, 0 END, Persistent, Always On, can work (maybe you add Area Effect). Just roll to see many active points get subtracted from any spell affecting the character. Technically it doesn't work vs. all magic effects you could imagine, but the GM can fudge it in those uncommon cases. Its a lot of points, but it IS a powerful effect.

 

2) Low Tech: 6d6 Luck, only to offset magical effects (-1)

[Frenchman]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

I'd go with the flat cost, but how much it should cost depends on your setting.

If you model it after Damage Reduction, as KS suggested, you'd better leave off the Only Vs. Single FX limitation since that is for DR bought towards a single defense type (Energy, Physical). Somewhere I saw a suggestion that not taking the limitation and choosing a special effect instead of a 'type' of attack would also be acceptable. So instead of buying:

48 100% Physical DR; Only vs. Magic (-1), Always On, (-1/2)

48 100% Energy DR; Only vs. Magic (-1), Always On, (-1/2)

48 100% Power DR; Only vs. Magic (-1), Always On, (-1/2)

48 100% Mental DR; Only vs. Magic (-1), Always On, (-1/2)

48 100% Flash DR; Only vs. Magic (-1), Always On, (-1/2)

you could buy:

80 100% Magic DR; Always On, (-1/2)

 

Long story short, I guess I'd recommend that outright Immunity to all magic, beneficial or otherwise, should cost around 80 points. If it doesn't extend to physical damage caused by magic (summoned creatures, enchanted weapons, earth/rock attack spells) then I'd lower to the cost to 60.

[Comic]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

I believe Suppress (Magic) + moderate defenses vs. magic only + DR: Magic at reasonable levels should get you what you need, if what you need is total immunity to a particular special effect up to the levels your character could expect to meet it.

 

Suppress: +2 All Magic Effects, +1/2 IPE, +1/2 Reduced to Zero END, +1/2 Persistent, +1/2 1" AoE; -1/2 Always On, -1/2 No Range, -1/2 Affects on Self Only. At +4 in advantages, expensive but well worth it, considering on a good roll it might blind magic senses -- leaving 'pure' magic creatures unable to see the character for example -- as well as forming a universal defense from at least some magic.

 

I'm not a huge fan of 100% Damage Reduction. Even at 120 APs, it's too much for too little, and leads to bookkeeping issues. 75% DR: Magic for 60 APs, -1/2 for Always On to prevent beneficial magic effects too, seems like enough to seriously weaken whatever remains of magic attacks after the Suppress.

 

There's also Heal with the Regeneration and Regrow Limbs options and +1/4 to affect any characteristic, not just Body, with the limitation Only vs Magically caused changes. One of those times when Always On might count as a Disadvantage for Heal, since it would undo positive transformations, for example.

 

Another power is this: Density Increase, Only Vs. Magic. This would prevent weight-limited abilities (Knockback, Teleport, UAA's) and furnish strength to use against magical strength/grabs/entangles, without giving extra leaping. Also, built in PD and ED only vs. Magic.

 

And don't forget BODY: Only Vs. Magic, to help shrug off Transformations. When combined with the Regeneration, almost guaranteed to prevent those AVLDs from bypassing all other defenses.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

This is a recurrent type of question. D&D gets to have an absolute defence because such things exist on their list of spells.

 

In Hero the list of spells is generated through point buying and everything is supposed to balance so absolute defences can be very expensive.

 

The cleanest way of doing this is to create a talent/perk etc that is simply immunity to magic. If you have several types of magic in your world then you can have multiple talents/perks. When spell casters are buying their spells etc then they get to take a limitation of 'not versus those with talent/perk'.

 

Thus you can introduce absolute defences into the game. All you have to do now is decide how expensive this defence is and what limitations you want to put on its use. After all - make it too cheap and all PCs will be completely immune to magic....

 

The cost should be pitched to make it attractive but expensive enought that PCs will tend to want to buy limited versions of it.

 

You might also have high power magic that is not limited in the same way and so, as the PCs get to higher levels they do not have to worry about hedge witches and wizards but the sorcerors that they routinely fight are still a challenge...

 

Doc

[woerth]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

Thanks for all the suggestions. I do apologize for saying Immune. I am looking more for dampen and not complete immunity. Lots of good things I will have to add to his character.

 

Thanks,

 

Brian

[Hierax]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

Besides the Damage Reduction, Dispel/Supress, etc. there's also "Arcane Defence" option (Fantasy Hero p.81-82)

[Markdoc]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

This is a recurrent type of question. D&D gets to have an absolute defence because such things exist on their list of spells.

 

Actually, amusingly enough, D&D designers have also recognised that absolute immunity is a not a great idea in game terms and have pretty much abandoned it, substituting a Hero-Friendly DR system instead.

 

cheers, Mark

[pawsplay]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

Desolidification and invisibility only versus magic might be an interesting take on a more absolute immunity.

[AnotherSkip]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

Desolid is nice as there are few powers that directly circmnavigate that power if it is a magic only disad it should do well.

Invisibility when you have to buy 10 points of invisibilty for every Tom Riddle, Dick and Harry Potter that has a special sense not "related to any other sense" it gets a. impossible and B. Ridiculosly expensive.

 

Simply put Invisibility and other sense afecting powers do need a SFX sense group invisibilty. otherwise well spending 30 points to cove just one independant sense from each of the trio above would cost you 30 points. If you even knew what their independant sense was!!! which in some campaings is not very likely.

 

Perhaps after you buy 60 points of invisibility to all senses then an adder that blocks special senses independant or no of a given sfx (say 20-30 points) THEN you could buy invisibility to magical detection. otherwise any mage with half a brain will build new senses attach them to triggered spells and render invisibility useless.

[badger3k]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

I have a character that has a unique ability in that he can dampen and effect Magic around him. He naturally does it. I am curious how others would demonstrate this.

 

I have given him several abilities. Power Defense, Mental Defense, Armor and Flash Defense (only versus magical attacks), + to presense to resist magical presense attacks.

 

I am also thinking of a suppress always on? Basically I don't want him to have think or react to an attack. His natural defense protect him. Any thoughts?

 

Brian

 

I had a way that could be expensive: (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=670095#post670095)

 

Missed that area affect - I guess my way wouldn't work like that (you'd need more modifers), but supress, 0 end, persistent, always on, area affect (probably one hex), mobile. That sounds like the way to go, but it would be expensive.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

I met an individual this week that was immune to logic.

Carry on.

[Vondy]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

To dampen magic around him I would probably do something like:

 

Xd6 Supress, Area of Effect, No Range, Limited Area [else it could be too big an area if the DCs are high enough], 0 End, Persistent, Always On, Etc.

 

For personal immunity I would probably do something like:

 

Desolidification, 0 End +1/2, Persistent +1/2, Always On -1/2, Invulnerability [Magic] -1.

 

And, of course, I would waive the need for Affects Physical World +2 as a GM option, and would require any Affects Deso powers to have the correct FX.

[caris]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

Desolid is nice as there are few powers that directly circmnavigate that power if it is a magic only disad it should do well.

Invisibility when you have to buy 10 points of invisibilty for every Tom Riddle, Dick and Harry Potter that has a special sense not "related to any other sense" it gets a. impossible and B. Ridiculosly expensive.

 

Simply put Invisibility and other sense afecting powers do need a SFX sense group invisibilty. otherwise well spending 30 points to cove just one independant sense from each of the trio above would cost you 30 points. If you even knew what their independant sense was!!! which in some campaings is not very likely.

 

Perhaps after you buy 60 points of invisibility to all senses then an adder that blocks special senses independant or no of a given sfx (say 20-30 points) THEN you could buy invisibility to magical detection. otherwise any mage with half a brain will build new senses attach them to triggered spells and render invisibility useless.

 

This is just an extension of the whole Desolid for immunity doesn't work because of the Advantage "Affects Desolid" arguement. The group needs to set up ground rules for the campaign. If the group (or GM in a more autocratic group) wants there to be an Invisiblity to Magic, than he should create a Magical Sense group, and all magical sense would have to be part of it. Some sense would qualify for the Modifer "acts as two or more senses."

 

The rules are tools to help you run a game, but you need to apply those tools correctly for the situation. Using the wrong end of a claw head hammer to try and pull a nail isn't going to get you very far. Not setting up your Sense Groups and assigning senses to them properly, can mess up your application of Invisibility.

[Vondy]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

This is just an extension of the whole Desolid for immunity doesn't work because of the Advantage "Affects Desolid" arguement. The group needs to set up ground rules for the campaign. If the group (or GM in a more autocratic group) wants there to be an Invisiblity to Magic' date=' than he should create a Magical Sense group, and [i']all[/i] magical sense would have to be part of it. Some sense would qualify for the Modifer "acts as two or more senses."

 

The rules are tools to help you run a game, but you need to apply those tools correctly for the situation. Using the wrong end of a claw head hammer to try and pull a nail isn't going to get you very far. Not setting up your Sense Groups and assigning senses to them properly, can mess up your application of Invisibility.

 

Or you could just rely on special effects to define whether or works or not.

[caris]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

Or you could just rely on special effects to define whether or works or not.

 

Except that AnotherSkip seemed to be dismissing that option, because it isn't "rules legal." I was discussing how to make the effect within the current rules. Sense Groups discusses that the GM can create additional Grouping for specific campaigns/settings like a Mystic Sense Group.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Immune to Magic

 

The book-legal way to cheaply construct this is to construct all magic items, spells and creatures with a limitation that they do not function on or cannot exist within a radius of X.

 

Then build said character with X.

 

This is also the easiest way to create anti-magic fields or dead magic zones.