The artwork drives me nuts

[OzMike]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

{teacher mode} The use of the word "Duh" is replaced by the word "Der" or "Derr" in most colloquial Australian language. Common usage is primarily as an adjective ("Don't be a der-brain, mate") or as an indication of sarcasm at an obvious/stupid statement or action ("You didn't think that you jumping in front of a truck might've hurt mate? Der! Here, stop crying and bleeding and have a bandaid. It can't hurt that much. At least you didn't spill ya beer*")

{/teacher mode}

 

That said, DUH is going to be a non-dietary supplement that is likely never to have been seen.

 

BTW - If anyone really wants to see DUH let me know. I'll have a crack at it via Digital Hero if folks want to see it and Dave Mattingly is interested.

 

*None spillage of beer (generally pronounced more like bee-ah in Australia) is an almost inherent skill in the Australian male.

[Hermit]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

{teacher mode} The use of the word "Duh" is replaced by the word "Der" or "Derr" in most colloquial Australian language. Common usage is primarily as an adjective ("Don't be a der-brain, mate") or as an indication of sarcasm at an obvious/stupid statement or action ("You didn't think that you jumping in front of a truck might've hurt mate? Der! Here, stop crying and bleeding and have a bandaid. It can't hurt that much. At least you didn't spill ya beer*")

{/teacher mode}

 

Curses. Once again, a perfectly good attempt to mess with someone's head and indulge in whimsy is shattered by facts. Now I know what Stephen Colbert was talking about...

 

 

 

That said, DUH is going to be a non-dietary supplement that is likely never to have been seen.

 

BTW - If anyone really wants to see DUH let me know. I'll have a crack at it via Digital Hero if folks want to see it and Dave Mattingly is interested.

 

*None spillage of beer (generally pronounced more like bee-ah in Australia) is an almost inherent skill in the Australian male.

 

I thought Champions Worldwide did a pretty good job on Australia, but I think a fleshing out of it by a native would be wonderful. Speaking just for myself, mind you.

[input.jack]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

Speaking just for myself' date=' mind you.[/quote']

 

Speak for me! Speak for meeeeeee!

[input.jack]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

I like Duh' date=' but I don't see what it has to do with this conversation.[/quote']

 

Teh Bunny is right. Coolness, indeed

[Sketchpad]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

Hiya Gang,

I've said it before, I'll say it again. If you have problems with my images in books, drop me a PM and discuss it with me. I'm always interested in constructive critiques. I've been working on a few things here and there and have specifically been working on tighting up my inking (like in the last issue of DH's Prof Murete).

But, if I may make a comment. I agree 100% that, as a consumer, you have a right to an opinion. But please understand that, even if the art isn't up to your standard, that many people that do art for the Hero books may see posts such as this one. Being more constructive helps any artist. Anyone can say that something sucks, but its a good fan that tries and help writers and artists grow.

[input.jack]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

Hiya Gang,

I've said it before, I'll say it again. If you have problems with my images in books, drop me a PM and discuss it with me. I'm always interested in constructive critiques. I've been working on a few things here and there and have specifically been working on tighting up my inking (like in the last issue of DH's Prof Murete).

But, if I may make a comment. I agree 100% that, as a consumer, you have a right to an opinion. But please understand that, even if the art isn't up to your standard, that many people that do art for the Hero books may see posts such as this one. Being more constructive helps any artist. Anyone can say that something sucks, but its a good fan that tries and help writers and artists grow.

 

Agreed. In my opinion, I think about half the art in HERO stuff is fantastic, and the other half...less so. I dont know who is who. My real gripe is that I cant read someones signature sometimes.

 

Back when I was in high school, I signed everything I drew with a stylized, kind of triangular "C". Which was fine, until I was talking to ana rtist at a convention (Michael Golden, I think it was. HECK of a nice guy!) who told me that he used to use an initial too, until someone pointed out to -him- that, when you use an unreadable signature, youve basically deprived yourself of your best outlet for self-promotion; your own work.

 

So to all you artists out there with cryptic symbols and illegible scribbles, take a hint from Frank Frazetta, Walt Simonsen, and Michael GOlden; sign your work in a way that makes it clear that its your name

[ghost-angel]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

So to all you artists out there with cryptic symbols and illegible scribbles' date=' take a hint from Frank Frazetta, Walt Simonsen, and Michael GOlden; sign your work in a way that makes it clear that its your name [/quote']

 

I can't agree more here.

 

I like Storn's signature. It's block letters, I don't have to guess.

 

I hate it when an artist uses some weird Thing for a signature. Or worse simply their initials. How am I supposed to know who you are? Guess? So much for trying to use your artwork to get more commissions....

[Sketchpad]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

I can't agree more here.

 

I like Storn's signature. It's block letters, I don't have to guess.

 

I hate it when an artist uses some weird Thing for a signature. Or worse simply their initials. How am I supposed to know who you are? Guess? So much for trying to use your artwork to get more commissions....

 

Well, in my case, I use the following:

 

In fact, I'll change my avatar for a while to represent that

[Captain Liberty]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

Sketchpad,

 

So I looked at the three relatively recent Hero books I have here (and have been commenting on) and see you did not do the artwork in any of them. A quick look at your blog tells me that this is a real shame.

 

The three books are Villainy Amok, Evil Unleashed, and Champions Worldwide. Villainy Amok's artwork ranges from the slightly cartoonish to the realistic and is universally good comic book art. So I am not complaining about Cuenca, Gorham, McEnvoy, Derek Stevens or Greg Smith. The latter two I recognize from earlier efforts and are excellent artists for the purpose. Good job getting artists, Scott.

 

Evil Unleashed uses artwork from previous volumes, and it all does the job very well. Besides some of the artists above, it has good work from Cremeans, Davenport, the Crams (related?), The Fraims, Robert Hawkins, Jeff Hebert (who apparently did work for the book directly (and therefore most recently) and would be an excellent choice for future projects), Lofgren, Rademaker, Ridley and Chris Stevens.

 

Champions Worldwide has some good stuff from the aforementioned Robert Hawkins, Reilly Brown and Dominika Klosowiscz (apparently one of the few women doing this artwork - unless I am misinterpreting Dominika as a European name) but the work by Elissa Cain just barely evokes the characters being depicted. Simply put, I could not imagine that artwork in a superhero comic book. Bland is probably the best I can say for it. She uses blacks to obscure rather than delineate. Good superhero art is line art, not shade art.

 

I'm not an artist, but I've been married to one for almost 40 years.

 

I haven't seen the book mostly being discussed, VVV, so I don't know if my disappointment would be heightened or decreased by the artwork therein.

 

My two cents.

[Sketchpad]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

Sketchpad,

 

So I looked at the three relatively recent Hero books I have here (and have been commenting on) and see you did not do the artwork in any of them. A quick look at your blog tells me that this is a real shame.

 

Hiya Steve,

Keep an eye on my blog ... I'm doing some pro writing at the moment, but plan to do some slight redesigns of the blog and plan on including some massive art soon

[Publius]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

Is there a reason why you don't pursue the Masters or PhD that it'd get you onto a tenure track position?

 

Because as I see it, all it would take is the University you work at the make that decision and eliminate not Instructors and only have TA's and Professors teach.

 

TB

Yup, they could.

 

Economically, that would be suicide however. There is not a grad program here, so no TAs and if they got the Profs to teach all of the classes for what they make it would run them into the red very quickly. Of coursem therein lies the rub: they are getting the pinch from the State cuts to education, and they have a lot less money. In the imaginery world they live in, the part-timers are an extra expediture. In the real world, I carry most of the department. They teach classes with less students than pay their wage. The first four students pay my wage per class and I have over 200 students in an average semester. But then the cuts come and they say "you cannot cut the full-timers" so they cut me even though I am pound for pound making them money. The Administration is either unaware of this or simply doesn't care, so the department gets pressure from both ends.

 

Why haven't I done the dissertation? I have finished all of my coursework and done the oral and written exams for the PhD, but frankly I have run out of steam after so many classes. I average 12 a year, that means I am prepping for classes (because two of those were new courses) and grading etc. for at least 3 and sometimes 4 classes a semester. Simply put, I'm burnt out; I bitch about it, but there is a reason they only give the others 5 classes a year and summers off if you want to finish say, a dissertation. Then, there is no guarantee that the degree will get me the full-time. Another fellow in my department has the degree and isn't getting full-time offers either, and he has tried.

 

The way it comes down is this: I love to teach, and as MarkDoc puts it, the emphasis for full-time folks is not on teaching but on grants and research. Publish or perish, at least until you get your tenure and sit on your fat rear end. Then suck off the University mam until you "retire" which means go down to 40% classload and get a major portion of your income plus benefits while still tying up a position.

 

Eventually, I'll fall off the gravy-train here. I know this, but the situation is too good and I live in an economicaly depressed area so there are little viable alternatives. At this point, I am simply riding it out. I hope I can find something as cool to do when it happens.

[Publius]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

I can't agree more here.

 

I like Storn's signature. It's block letters, I don't have to guess.

 

I hate it when an artist uses some weird Thing for a signature. Or worse simply their initials. How am I supposed to know who you are? Guess? So much for trying to use your artwork to get more commissions....

Me, I combo the weird symbol and the full name. I just hope it is legible

[Balabanto]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

At least none of you guys are Bill Sienckewicz

[wylodmayer]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

He's kinda recognizable, though... well, come to think of it, I wouldn't know the pieces he did that weren't, would I?

[valtrades]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

when I use a character from one of the recent books, the players take one look at the HORRIBLE art, laugh, and voila! scenario ruined...I would buy more product, if not for the Terrible art quality, which make even the most interesting villains utterly unusable.

Bottom line: you want my groups money, give us a product worth buying...if the book is later, or costs more, oh well, i just wanna spend money!

[Querysphinx]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

I suppose I should send a portfolio to Hero and see if they'd commission me. I'd love to have some work in an official product.

[Psybolt]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

I think that the real problem with some of the arts is that it gives the people who do not like the system or who love to complain about it, one more thing to complain about. I rarely pay much attention to the art in the books, but I love the system and I am not looking for reasons to criticize it.

 

An old friend would laugh about the art while we gamed and he always added that to his complaints about the system. I'd agree, good art is better, because there are those that might pick up a book because of it. And once in, then I believe the system will keep them.

[ghost-angel]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

Yeah... because bad artwork always prevented me from playing...

 

no wait. It never did that.

 

It is, AFAIC, a lame excuse not to play a system.

[OzMike]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

Yeah... because bad artwork always prevented me from playing...

 

no wait. It never did that.

 

It is, AFAIC, a lame excuse not to play a system.

 

I think the whole thread above goes over it from the 'appeal to new or casual users' angle, but in short (so you don't feel lonely):

 

I with you agree wholeheartedly.

 

For me, the layout of the way information and artwork is presented is much more important. If I can't read a book easily or find the information I'm looking for quickly and that becomes a consistent product-line-wide flaw then I will very quickly stop playing it.

 

And also a moment to give kudos to whoever proofs these things for HERO. Given the phenomenal amount of words written, the number of errors is incredibly low. Well done whomever!

[JmOz]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

I think the whole thread above goes over it from the 'appeal to new or casual users' angle, but in short (so you don't feel lonely):

 

I with you agree wholeheartedly.

 

For me, the layout of the way information and artwork is presented is much more important. If I can't read a book easily or find the information I'm looking for quickly and that becomes a consistent product-line-wide flaw then I will very quickly stop playing it.

 

And also a moment to give kudos to whoever proofs these things for HERO. Given the phenomenal amount of words written, the number of errors is incredibly low. Well done whomever!

 

For the most part art should not matter, but really on some levels it does for me. Especialy when it comes to Characters or new locations. I however do not care if art is recycled some

[Enforcer84]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

Yeah... because bad artwork always prevented me from playing...

 

no wait. It never did that.

 

It is, AFAIC, a lame excuse not to play a system.

No Lamer than any other excuse.

[Checkmate]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

Have you ever bought a new RPG without flipping through it first? I have never, and I will never. When you're in a store looking to get a new RPG book, you don't have time to thoroughly read through all the material to see how good the content is. The book has to look good to attract people. Looking good means good art. The only way Hero is going to get new players, is if old players bring them in. It has no off the shelf appeal and I believe that's one of the things killing it.

 

The other problem I think Hero has is Steve Long. I love that he's brought Hero back to the land of the living. I love that he's active and interacts with the community. The problem I have is his writing. If you want a book that describes exactly how things are done, why they are this way, and what would be different if something changes, Steve's your guy. He'll throw down the technical aspects of a setting/genre book like no one's business. However, if you want a new setting with creative ideas and artistic flair, Steve, not so much.

[ghost-angel]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

Have you ever bought a new RPG without flipping through it first?

 

Several times.

[Checkmate]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

Several times.

Then I dare say you are the VERY rare exception.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: The artwork drives me nuts

 

Two things. I've said on many occasions that one of the problems with the books -- premise of being a toolkit aside -- is that they lack 'writing punch.' Are they well written? Oh, yes, absolutely.

 

Are they off-the-shelf readable? No.

Are they attractive? Erm. No.

 

Once you get past the sort of 'no-nonsense' writing style, they are digestible, but it takes some time. I don't have GA's resolve to read every word, I tend to feel like I'm getting bogged down. However, it's a gaming text book; not written for entertainment. Those were done by White Wolf, but that's something else. I think they need better editing, a little more spark, and much -- much -- better artwork.