CraterMaker Posted May 26, 2007 Report Share Posted May 26, 2007 Over in the Monte Cooks Arcana Evolved thread, the discussion kind of got sidetracked into a talk on Non-Combat and Non-Adventuring magic.. Captain Obvious had a great link to an old book of magic spells and recipes http://www.think-aboutit.com/pdf/powow.pdf and I just love this site about Hoodoo http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/ess_hoodoo.html I've written up a couple of the more impressive spells (Crossing and Uncrossing, and Goober Dust) and eventually want to write it up as a college of spells.. So.. I was wondering if any of you have any "real" world magic resources you might like to share? I find they do wonders to fire up my imagination.. -CraterMaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted May 26, 2007 Report Share Posted May 26, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources Online, not off hand, and I don't suppose my hard copy reference library is all that useful unless you live here in Indianapolis and can convince me to loan you some books.... Lucius Alexander Still crafting spells to keep bookworms, silverfish, rodents, and palindromedaries aout of the library.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted May 26, 2007 Report Share Posted May 26, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources Real Magic by P.E.I. Bonewits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted May 26, 2007 Report Share Posted May 26, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources Real Magic by P.E.I. Bonewits You know, while I can't praise that book highly enough for the working occultist or thaumaturgist, and it's also very useful from a roleplaying standpoint, it's basically about theory. I think what he was looking for was more "recipe book" type concrete examples from actual working traditions. Lucius Alexander Did the tagline eat my palindromedary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources If you don't mind the purchase, The Ultimate Mystic goes into considerable research into real-world magic traditions (at least the Western ones), with substantial HERO writeups. Unlike its predecessor this book is geared to all genres, not just supers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources I had some other good links on the old computer before the hard drive crashed. Let me see if I can google them up again. Good to see someone getting some use out of the Powwow. Edit: Ah, here's some quick return...Giambattista della Porta's Natural Magick. Looking for others... Reedit: The Esoteric Archives should keep you busy for a while. I think these are the best online sources I've found along these lines. Of course, if you want the best resource of real, castable spells, you have to go to the 1st edition AD&D books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StGrimblefig Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources Real Magic by P.E.I. Bonewits He wrote one specifically for roleplaying games under the name Isaac Bonewits, called Authentic Thaumaturgy (ISBN 1-55634-360-4, published by Steve Jackson Games). I would provide a link to the SJGames product page, but their site seems to be unreachable at the moment. Edit: They're back, and the book info can be found here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawain Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources Here are a few excerpts from Authentic Thaumaturgy: Introduction Good and Evil Magic The Laws of Magic Mono-, Duo- & Polytheisms Sacrifices And some Reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted May 27, 2007 Report Share Posted May 27, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources One of my favorite "magic recipes" is the Soupstone. The rock is almost always described as very smooth and either white or grey and about the size of a small apple. It has the power to turn a pot full of water and vegetables into the best stew ever. "And I swear you could taste the chicken and tomatoes And the noodles and the marrowbone But it really wasn't nothing but some water and potatoes And the wonderful, wonderful soupstone" - Dr. Hook & the Medicine Show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources The Internet Sacred Text Archive- http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchman Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources Oh, the horror. CraterMaker, I recognize some of the names of the Anthropologists who worked on that first one. I need to get out of school more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtelson Posted May 28, 2007 Report Share Posted May 28, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources Just a few we have knocking around at themagicalbuffet.com http://www.apocatastasis.net/OccultLibrary/Occult-Library.html http://realmagick.com/main/home.html http://www.conjurer.org/?id=west http://www.hermetics.org/ebooks.html http://www.zheper.com/blackraven/?page_id=10 http://historical.library.cornell.edu/witchcraft/ http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bloccultsymbols.htm I hope they help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources You know, I once found a spellbook in my college library. Seriously. it was a book, evidently done by a reputable publisher, describing in great detail how to summon both high-ranking demons and high-ranking angels, going into such details as what circles to draw and what incantations to use. whether this was someone having a nasty joke at the publisher's expense or a reprint on an older to0me, the spells wouldn't have actually worked. Mind you, I had no in6terest in trying them -- because I can't think either the heavenly or Infernal hosts would have much use for being summoned to the needs to a sorcerer. After all, all a demon could want is your immortal soul, and if you're wiling to summon a demon he's got it anyway, so why should he bother actually showing up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources Ye..es.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources After all' date=' all a demon could want is your immortal soul, and if you're wiling to summon a demon he's got it anyway, so why should he bother actually showing up?[/quote'] Not necessarily. Most of the medieval scholars who were into such things were willing to summon a demon rather than an angel to get information about the physical world or the hereafter because there was an element of coercion to it, and messing up a devil's day wasn't considered nearly as sinful as doing it to an angel. All a devil does all day is suffer in hell, so pulling him out to torture him for information is no big deal, as the thought went. You didn't have to sell your soul just because you summoned one up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources He wrote one specifically for roleplaying games under the name Isaac Bonewits, called Authentic Thaumaturgy (ISBN 1-55634-360-4, published by Steve Jackson Games). I would provide a link to the SJGames product page, but their site seems to be unreachable at the moment. Edit: They're back, and the book info can be found here And it's not very good. I went back to look through it and, aside from the overdesigned game mechanics, the whole book is written in a condescending tone: "Fantasy gaming magic has always been unrealistic, because game designers know nothing of real magic." The first edition of the book was written in 1979, when AD&D was state of the art amongst magic systems. Aside from a few mentions of Mage: the Ascension, GURPS, and Magic: the Gathering, I'm not sure it was even updated much. On the other hand, Real Magic has informed much of my magic system design, even back to first edition FH. Both books treat magic scientifically, so if you're looking for sense of wonder or mystical feel, pass them by. There is a good deal of study of real life magic systems, past and present, in Real Magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources One wonders whether I have the terminology straight. Take that spellbook I mentioned earlier. It may have been a description of practices people tried, but none of them would have actually worked. So it's real in the sense that that's how somebody thought they could cast spells, but they actually couldn't cast any spells that worked with it so it's not. Also, the scientific and the mystical mindset weren't that far apart in the old days. Isaac Newton was a mathematician and physicist, but also one of the last practicing alchemists (before the discipline evolved into chemistry) and, in his own mind at least, a sorcerer. And King James I, the English ruler who commissioned the most famous English-language Bible translation, considered himself one of the world's foremost experts on demonology, as respectable a field of study then as anthropology would be today (particularly since he used it to guide his witch hunters rather than traffic with the devil himself). I suspect old James might have been happier as a Witchhunter Pursuviant than as a monarch (at the very least he would have been spared the indignity of being required to reproduce for the sake of the dynasty). It was this, as much as anything else, that got so many scientists in trouble with the Catholic Church during the Inquisition period. The Catholics weren't quite as hidebound as all that -- there was a flourishing intellectual and philosophical tradition within its ranks since the days of Augustine, and the monasteries were the most prominent centers of learning before the founding of the Universities in Christian Europe -- in fact, for most of the Dark Ages the Church had a virtual monopoly on people who still knew how to read in Western Europe), but they had a real fear of witchcraft and sorcery and its potential detrimental effect on them and the community. They truly believe in both divine and arcane magic, cherished the divine and feared the arcane. So anyone who explored "mysteries of the world" without bothering with their guidance was suspicious, possibly dangerous -- especially when those people aligned themselves with secular rulers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources I still can't parse the uses of the words "real" and "magic". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources I still can't parse the uses of the words "real" and "magic". Okay, I think what OP was looking for was resources and guidance as regards magic as it was practiced in the real world. Real Magic by Bonewits is a good, readable introduction. Another good one might be The Golden Bough by James Fraser. There's an encyclopedia of mythology entitled Man, Myth, and Magic which might be another good one to look at. (Confusingly, there's an old RPG by the same name that I don't think has anything to do with the encyclopedia.) For good gaming related stuff, look no further than Ken Hite. He's done lots of research and knows whereof he speaks. I don't offhand know what he's written that would specifically related, except for his Suppressed Transmissions and GURPS Cabal, for starters. Try some of his Unknown Armies stuff as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources He wrote one specifically for roleplaying games under the name Isaac Bonewits' date=' called Authentic Thaumaturgy (ISBN 1-55634-360-4, published by Steve Jackson Games). [/quote'] I've got a copy of this and have kept it as a curiosity, but I wouldn't advise anyone to waste cash on it - it's rubbish and badly written to boot. Edit: scooped by Mr Goodwin. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Tree_of_Life Just passing on the above link, which is full of real-world-ish magical stuff derived from Aleister Crowley and the Qabalah. Links to Astrology, Tarot, Colors, Elements, Angels and more... all integrated in a simplified form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources Nice site! It even has the "k" spelling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources I still can't parse the uses of the words "real" and "magic". I can't quite parse "divine" and "arcane." Lucius Alexander The palindromedary is chewing it over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources Nice site! It even has the "k" spelling! "The tingling sensation let's you know it's working." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Rose Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Re: "real" Magic resources Nice site! It even has the "k" spelling! IIRC, Crowley, aka The Wickedest Man Alive, was the one who really pushed for "magic with a K" as Will Working, not to be confused with the "no-K magic" with the handkerchiefs and cards and coins and whatnot. I'm certainly not saying he was the first to spell it that way, but before him the "k" was used for one of two reasons; referencing an old text, or actually being an old text. Do recall, this word comes from the Olde language, before they invented spelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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