GAZZA Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Let's say you want to buy (say) 4 Penalty Levels for Sweep (so that you can attack up to 3 targets without a penalty). The special effect here is that the attack has hundreds* of Extra Limbs, in case it matters, and is able to independently focus with all of them. Assume you buy it as the lowest cost level (ie a total of 6 points). Since Sweep can be performed with most combat maneuvers, would you need to specify Sweep Defensive Strike (for example), or is "Sweep" good enough? I'm leaning heavily towards the former. * Non-specific; the character is called Centipede, and I just bought Extra Limbs and said "He's got a smegload". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Re: Penalty Skill Levels for Sweep A small matter, but I don't believe you can purchase PSLs for Sweep. You cannot purchase PSLs to offset maneuver penalties. You would need to purchase CSLs. I would not allow a character to purchase +3 CSLs for Sweep. Sweep in itself is NOT a maneuver. It's a mechanic to allow multiple attacks in a single phase. If you had +2 CSLs with Defensive Strike, you could use those to offset some penalties for using Defensive Strike in a Sweep. The best choice, and the one I would urge the character to take would be CSLs with HtH (or Range). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAZZA Posted April 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Re: Penalty Skill Levels for Sweep A small matter' date=' but I don't believe you can purchase PSLs for Sweep. You cannot purchase PSLs to offset maneuver penalties. You would need to purchase CSLs. [/quote'] Is that a Revised thing? My 5th edition book lists no such restriction. It seems fair, though. I would not allow a character to purchase +3 CSLs for Sweep. Sweep in itself is NOT a maneuver. It's a mechanic to allow multiple attacks in a single phase. If you had +2 CSLs with Defensive Strike, you could use those to offset some penalties for using Defensive Strike in a Sweep. The best choice, and the one I would urge the character to take would be CSLs with HtH (or Range). Is it not mechanically similar to buying PSLs for Autofire penalties, though? Though I grant you it doesn't list that as an example under PSLs, it seems logical (if you restrict yourself to the examples given for PSLs, then for a superheroic campaign they might just as well have still called them Range Skill Levels). I mean, if I buy it as CSLs I get a bonus to hit (and if you follow through your reasoning that Sweep is not a maneuver, I get it on whichever maneuver I buy it for whether I'm Sweeping or not); I'm not after that, I just want to represent (in this case) someone that can effectively attack multiple opponents at once due to having lots of extra hands. Naturally I could do this any number of ways (AE, Autofire) but Sweep seems the cleanest method. It's not a huge deal point wise, but it does seem silly that if I want to offset a penalty I can't use a PSL to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Samson Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Re: Penalty Skill Levels for Sweep Pg. 397 5ER allows for the purchase of OCV CSLs with Sweep. They are 2 pt. skill levels regardless of what attack or weapon you perform the Sweep with. You can also buy higher cost CSLs with Sweep if you want increased DCV or Damage while Sweeping. Cheers. [edit] I think it is a 5ER thing that you cannot use PSL to offset maneuever penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAZZA Posted April 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Re: Penalty Skill Levels for Sweep That suggests I should be able to get them for 1 1/2 if I can only use them for a specific maneuver, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Samson Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Re: Penalty Skill Levels for Sweep That suggests I should be able to get them for 1 1/2 if I can only use them for a specific maneuver' date=' right?[/quote'] I do not believe so. In 5ER, it does say under PSL that you cannot buy PSLs to offset maneuever penalties (just things like range, cover, ect.) and 2 pts. is the cheapest CSL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Re: Penalty Skill Levels for Sweep Pg. 397 5ER allows for the purchase of OCV CSLs with Sweep. They are 2 pt. skill levels regardless of what attack or weapon you perform the Sweep with. You can also buy higher cost CSLs with Sweep if you want increased DCV or Damage while Sweeping. Cheers. [edit] I think it is a 5ER thing that you cannot use PSL to offset maneuever penalties. Oh, I know that the books says you can purchase CSLs for Sweep. I just don't like it. There is just something about it that strikes me as odd. You have practiced hitting multiple targets so that you can do it more easily (eg you bought CSLs for Sweep). What maneuver/skill/ability were you using to get this practiced? You've used your martial arts so long that you can make multiple attacks (eg CSLs with Sweep), you pick up a rifle and Sweep a few rounds at some mooks? It just strikes me as odd. I could see purchasing some CSLs with HtH (or Defensive Strike) and then limiting them to "Only to Offset Sweep Penalties." That makes a lot more sense to my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Re: Penalty Skill Levels for Sweep What maneuver/skill/ability were you using to get this practiced? You've used your martial arts so long that you can make multiple attacks (eg CSLs with Sweep)' date=' you pick up a rifle and Sweep a few rounds at some mooks? It just strikes me as odd.[/quote'] There are a number of SFX for it, just a couple off the top of my head- the above quoted multiple limbs - sweep with any hand to hand, and if there is a rifle in each arm... Someone who uses that as SFX for "Bullet time" or time manipulation. The ultra trained combat master who can do any combat very well (I've bought 3 levels in OCV with the lim (only to offset no prof penalties) for that kind of character as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Re: Penalty Skill Levels for Sweep Oh, I know that the books says you can purchase CSLs for Sweep. I just don't like it. There is just something about it that strikes me as odd. You have practiced hitting multiple targets so that you can do it more easily (eg you bought CSLs for Sweep). What maneuver/skill/ability were you using to get this practiced? You've used your martial arts so long that you can make multiple attacks (eg CSLs with Sweep), you pick up a rifle and Sweep a few rounds at some mooks? It just strikes me as odd. I could see purchasing some CSLs with HtH (or Defensive Strike) and then limiting them to "Only to Offset Sweep Penalties." That makes a lot more sense to my mind. Ummm...how are the two different? One makes it easier to hit multiple targets. The other makes it easier to hit multiple targets. The mechanic has changed, but the SFX hasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtFool Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Heh heh...you said 'smegload' Naturally I could do this any number of ways (AE' date=' Autofire) but Sweep seems the cleanest method.[/quote'] Purely a matter of preference, but Area of Effect and Autofire seem cleaner to me. Especially Area of Effect for a smegload of Extra Limbs. Sweep will eventually get more difficult as you add targets unless you have an unlimited number of CSL's or PSL's (however you want to do it). With Area of Effect you could get a swarm of rats with no penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Re: Penalty Skill Levels for Sweep Ummm...how are the two different? One makes it easier to hit multiple targets. The other makes it easier to hit multiple targets. The mechanic has changed' date=' but the SFX hasn't.[/quote'] No, you are oversimplifying. One allows you to hit multiple targets with any attack under the sun. The other allows you to hit multiple targets with a specific attack (or group of attacks). It's the any attack under the sun I have a problem with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Re: Penalty Skill Levels for Sweep So "he;s good at multiple attacks, but only with this weapon" you're OK with, but not "he's good with multiple attacks in general". I wonder why he's so fast with a sword, but not a knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Re: Penalty Skill Levels for Sweep So "he;s good at multiple attacks' date=' but only with this weapon" you're OK with, but not "he's good with multiple attacks in general". I wonder why he's so fast with a sword, but not a knife.[/quote'] If you'll check back you'll notice he said "with a specific attack or set of attacks" not "with a specific weapon". So more of a "he's good at multiple attacks, but only specifically with his martial arts attacks, the ones that he has spend years of his life training on". As a note, I personally don't have a problem with levels in sweep. I've even used them upon occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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