How to get swords on your starship

[ShinDangaioh]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

Swords and knives are cheaper than having a gun with bullets.

 

Excluding stunners and the like, I would not us a gun inside a ship due to riccocet threat.

[Zeropoint]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

Swords and knives are cheaper than having a gun with bullets.

 

Excluding stunners and the like, I would not us a gun inside a ship due to riccocet threat.

 

All of that is true TODAY, right now, in the real world. And what do ship-board security teams use?

 

Guns.

 

I'm in the U.S. Navy. I've seen Marines and Masters At Arms geared up for combat. They've been armed with AR-15 family rifles, M-14s, Shotguns, and of course Berretta 92s, but I've NEVER seen one carrying a sword.

[Outsider]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

All of that is true TODAY, right now, in the real world. And what do ship-board security teams use?

 

Guns.

 

I'm in the U.S. Navy. I've seen Marines and Masters At Arms geared up for combat. They've been armed with AR-15 family rifles, M-14s, Shotguns, and of course Berretta 92s, but I've NEVER seen one carrying a sword.

 

If the 'cheaper' logic held, then people would use sharp sticks, or their bare hands also. Ricochet & Collateral Damage are good arguments, though I don't really agree with them.

[Markdoc]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

If the 'cheaper' logic held' date=' then people would use sharp sticks, or their bare hands also. Ricochet & Collateral Damage are good arguments, though I don't really agree with them.[/quote']

 

Because what would you rather risk? Possible ricochets and possible collateral damage or certain defeat and near-certain death? Bit of a no-brainer, really.

 

cheers, Mark

[ajackson]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

If people have a choice about their weapons, they'll use the weapons they feel are most likely to make them win and which give the highest quality win. Things like ricochets and damage to the ship will reduce the quality of a win and might even turn it into a non-win, but you really only worry about the quality of the win at the point where you're pretty well guaranteed some sort of win, at which point you often switch to nonlethals (living prisoners you can interrogate are handy).

[Nyrath]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

I fear that I did not make myself clear when I started this thread. I was talking more about a Planetary Romance type campaign, like John Carter of Barsoom.

Example:

 

From The Warlock of Rhada by Robert Cham Gilman (1985). One thousand years after the fall of the first galactic empire, warriors are armed with swords and ride horses, but by golly the starships still work. Built to last.

 

The starship Gloria in Coelis, grounded on the sandy plain to the west of Lord Ulm of Vara’s keep, was ancient. Though the men who presently flew her were the wisest of their time, they had no really clear notion of how the vessel operated, when it was built or how fast it traveled. From time out of mind, the Order of Navigators had trained its priests in the techniques of automated starflight by rote. Even now, as the Gloria’s two million metric tons depressed the soil of the Varan plain, the duty Navigators on the starship’s bridge, were chanting the Te Deum Stella, the Litany for Preflight, this ritual being one of the first taught to young novice Navigators on the cloister-planets of Algol.

 

Though the three junior priests on the bridge were chanting the voice commands that activated the immense ship’s systems, in fact only the propulsion units (sealed after manufacture in the time of the Empire) responded. The priests did not know that the vessel’s life-support systems and its many amenities had ceased to function more than a thousand years earlier. The interior of the starship was lit by torches burning in wall-sconces, water and food were stored aboard in wooden casks, and the ship’s atmosphere was replenished not by the scrubber units, as originally intended, but by the air that was taken aboard through the open ports and hatchways. The starships were capable of almost infinite range, for the engines operated on solar-phoenix units. But the length of any star voyage was limited by the food and water supply and by the fouling of the air by the hundreds of men and horses of the warbands the starships most often carried.

 

The bridge had been depolarized, and from within this consecrated area where only a Navigator might pass, the duty crew could see the squat towers and thick walls of Lord Vim’s keep. The warband, almost a thousand armed men, was mustering on the plain below the north tower, preparing to file into the vaulted caverns within the kilometer-long ship.

 

Brother Anselm, a novice who spoke with the heavy Slavic accents of the Pleiades Region, had the Conn. This honor was a small one, for the ship was not under way, but the engine cores were still humming from the recent voyage from Aurora, and Anseim, a fervent young man, imagined that the voice of the Holy Star was in them -- and speaking directly to him.

 

He half-closed his eyes and chanted, "Planetary Mass two-third nullified and cores engaged for atmospheric flight at minus thirty and counting."

 

Brother Gwill, a thinly made and sour young Altairi, made the response, pressing the glowing computer controls in the prescribed sequence. "Cores One and Three at Energy Point Three, for the Glory of Heaven. Cores Two, Four, and Five coming into phase as the Lord of the Great Sky Commands."

 

"Hallelujah, Core Energy rising on scan curve," Anselm declared with fervid devotion...

 

..."Null-grav power to main buss at Energy Point Five in the Name of the Holy Name."

 

"Null-gee to main buss at my hack, if it is pleasing to the Spirit," Gwill responded. In spite of himself he could not suppress a shiver of anticipation. At Energy Point Five, the power of the cores was fed into the lifting system and the vast star ship would begin to lose mass. The tonnage that interacted with planetary gravity to give the ship its great weight when at rest would begin to dissipate into a spatio-temporal anomaly, changing the molecular structure by reversing the atomic polarities of all matter within the Core field. The men who designed and built the starships understood this effect only imperfectly, and the Navigators who now flew them across the Great Sky understood it not at all. But the visual and physical effects of the change in matter within the Core fields was spectacular and awesome. As the Null-grav buss was activated, the skin of the ship would begin to shimmer and glow, surplus energy accumulated by kinesis and radiation from the Vyka Sun expending itself as light and molecular motion until the starship actually began to move. It was a sight that created consternation among the common folk of all the Great Sky, and even Navigators, who were accustomed to the phenomena, gave thought to the miraculous and holy nature of the great ships that were their domain.

 

Anselm murmured to Brother Collis, "Gloria in Excelsis, let the ship’s pressure rise to ambient."

 

"Ambient it is and blessed be the Holy Star," Collins said rapidly. He pressed the prescribed buttons on the Support Console and waited the required thirty heartbeats. Nothing happened, nor did the young novice expect anything to happen. The display screen remained dark. "We are hold, hold, hold, may it be pleasing to God," he reported in the familiar rising chant. "Hold on pressure, hold on flow, hold on storage."...

 

...The three priests made the sign of the Star and Anselm in dictated that Brother Gwill should make the Query.

 

The novice punched in the coded sequence that was one of the first things memorized by all Navigators and meant, in effect, "Are we where we should be?" Ordinarily, for a short atmospheric flight, the Query was omitted from the Litany, but nothing was ever left out when Brother Anseim was in charge of the countdown.

 

The ship’s computer flashed its reply on the display-screen: "Position coordinates D788990658-RA008239657. Province of Vega, Area 10, Aldrin. Planetary coordinates 23° 17’ north latitude, 31° 12’ west longitude, inertial navigation system engaged."

 

In spite of their familiarity with the ways of the holy starships, the three novices felt a tingling thrill at the appearance of the strangely shaped sigils in the ancient Anglic runes of the Empire. They had only the vaguest notion of what the ship meant by addressing them in these mystical words, in these phrases of the ancient world. But the background color on the display screen was the Color of Go -- emerald green -- and that told them that the Gloria in Coelis was, once again, ready for flight.

[Markdoc]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

Oh well, in that case, you have your answer right there: a galactic civilisation fell, for whatever reason: for example, a computer virus designed for military use, that damaged cyberbrains, not only shutting down all cities and machines but also turning most citizens into vegetables - only the young (who hadn't been fitted yet) the very poorest and the odd philosophical holdout who didn't have a cyberbrain were left.

 

In that situation, all that would be left would be hardscrabble survival and if the technology was as advanced as one might expect, duplicating it and learning from it might be almost impossible: especially given the nature of the survivors left in a scenario like the one above (the young, the marginalised and the wacko). With most of the population gone and the survivors having to survive on what they could scavenge, in a couple of generations, it'd incomprehensible. Many generations later when society had grown from the few survivors, it'd be magic.

 

Give a cave man a bronze sword and he could figure out how to use it and even with time, maybe his tribe could learn to recreate it. Give him an iPod and he'd be totally lost. Even if over the years he figured out how to use it, he would not have the faintest idea of how to begin to create something of the kind. He couldn't even take it apart to examine it, because the internals would mean nothing.

 

There you go: swords, sandals and starships.

 

cheers, Mark

[gewing]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

I fear that I did not make myself clear when I started this thread. I was talking more about a Planetary Romance type campaign, like John Carter of Barsoom.

Example:

 

From The Warlock of Rhada by Robert Cham Gilman (1985). One thousand years after the fall of the first galactic empire, warriors are armed with swords and ride horses, but by golly the starships still work. Built to last.

 

 

SNIPPAGE

 

 

In spite of their familiarity with the ways of the holy starships, the three novices felt a tingling thrill at the appearance of the strangely shaped sigils in the ancient Anglic runes of the Empire. They had only the vaguest notion of what the ship meant by addressing them in these mystical words, in these phrases of the ancient world. But the background color on the display screen was the Color of Go -- emerald green -- and that told them that the Gloria in Coelis was, once again, ready for flight.

 

 

I loved that series, but wasn't it "Rebel of Rhada, Navigator of Rhada, and Sky Khan of Rhada? Or something like that?

 

Just from my memories, maybe I should look it up.

[Alathan]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

This reminds me of a novel I read many years ago, Homecoming by John Dalmas. If I remember it correctly, mankind establishes its first interstellar colony, and then disaster happens, all contact with Earth is cut off, and the colony doesn't have a starship. 800 years later, the colony has finally grown and developed to the point it has built its first starship, and they send a mission back to Earth to find out what happened. Earth, it turns out, fell victim to a plague or something, and by the time the colonists returned 800 years later, Earth was in the middle of its second medieval age. A warlord manages to capture one of the ship's shuttles and its crew, and the captain of the ship has to decide whether to give the warlord firearms and his other shuttle in return for the return of his crewmembers, or should he trust another band of viking-like barbarians to help him get his shuttle and crew back.

 

Might make for an interesting game if the PCs are the contact group sent down in a shuttlecraft to explore the planet and find out what happened... then they get captured by barbarians and have to find a way to get their ship back, or find allies to help them... meanwhile the barbarians could have figured out how to fly the shuttlecraft (perhaps it's largely automated or voice-controlled) and are wreaking havok on their enemies with its fusion torch engines and missile racks...

 

Or maybe the PCs are the barbarians who have captured the shuttlecraft...

[Nyrath]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

I loved that series, but wasn't it "Rebel of Rhada, Navigator of Rhada, and Sky Khan of Rhada? Or something like that?

 

Just from my memories, maybe I should look it up.

The first book in the series was published last. You might have missed it.

 

1 The Warlock of Rhada (1985) [as by Robert Cham Gilman ]

2 The Rebel of Rhada (1968) [as by Robert Cham Gilman ]

3 The Navigator of Rhada (1969) [as by Robert Cham Gilman ]

4 The Starkahn of Rhada (1970) [as by Robert Cham Gilman ]

[Narratio]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

Youe could use Webbers' Ranks of Bronze" development of Andre Nortons idea where fighting on worlds is only allowed with certain levels of technology? Only physical weaponry (swords, bows, slings etc) on designated low tech worlds, gunpowder, hot air ballons, steam engines etc on designated mid tech worlds...) So blade weapon skills are useful.

 

Or you could change the definition of swords to include such things as Webers 'cutting bars', basically a thing bladed chain saw.

[Outsider]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

This reminds me of a novel I read many years ago' date=' [b']Homecoming[/b] by John Dalmas. If I remember it correctly, mankind establishes its first interstellar colony, and then disaster happens, all contact with Earth is cut off, and the colony doesn't have a starship. 800 years later, the colony has finally grown and developed to the point it has built its first starship, and they send a mission back to Earth to find out what happened. Earth, it turns out, fell victim to a plague or something, and by the time the colonists returned 800 years later, Earth was in the middle of its second medieval age. A warlord manages to capture one of the ship's shuttles and its crew, and the captain of the ship has to decide whether to give the warlord firearms and his other shuttle in return for the return of his crewmembers, or should he trust another band of viking-like barbarians to help him get his shuttle and crew back.

 

Might make for an interesting game if the PCs are the contact group sent down in a shuttlecraft to explore the planet and find out what happened... then they get captured by barbarians and have to find a way to get their ship back, or find allies to help them... meanwhile the barbarians could have figured out how to fly the shuttlecraft (perhaps it's largely automated or voice-controlled) and are wreaking havok on their enemies with its fusion torch engines and missile racks...

 

Or maybe the PCs are the barbarians who have captured the shuttlecraft...

 

 

Sounds a bit like his Fanglith series too.

[gewing]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

The first book in the series was published last. You might have missed it.

 

1 The Warlock of Rhada (1985) [as by Robert Cham Gilman ]

2 The Rebel of Rhada (1968) [as by Robert Cham Gilman ]

3 The Navigator of Rhada (1969) [as by Robert Cham Gilman ]

4 The Starkahn of Rhada (1970) [as by Robert Cham Gilman ]

 

 

 

 

AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!

THANKS, I feel much better now. I guess I need to find a copy.

[Nyrath]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!

THANKS, I feel much better now. I guess I need to find a copy.

http://www.bookfinder.com is your friend.

[Mister E]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

What if the health of people was maintained by some third-party agent, like a pacifistic AI that controls the environment via subatomic robots that are present in all things? Then perhaps you could say that in order to harm each other and make war and such, only specially designed melee weapons will do the job. Melee weapons that act as extensions of the wielder's avatar within the artificial environment as determined by the mind of the AI. Reality-hacking weapons... the kind able to harm Superman. These devices could be made into projectiles that could be fired from firearms, but doing so would be difficult and/or expensive... or perhaps hard on the virtual-psyche of the aggressor due to the normally expendable nature of bullets... as if the person was willfully sacrificing a portion of his being... an act that possibly requires a stiff EGO roll.

 

Magic swords: yes.

Magic bullets: not so much.

 

Definitely a case of heavy-handed world-building.

 

Edit: Or perhaps bullets don't work, because after it separates from the firer and makes contact with the target, the target's avatar dominates the bullet and is able to render it harmless.

[Clonus]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

THANKS, I feel much better now. I guess I need to find a copy.

 

Find Galactic Empires and you'll see the original short story that was much better untainted by the author's second thoughts.

[jaws]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

I always liked Frank Herbert's solution - a defense field that will stop high-velocity objects, but allow low velocity penetration.

 

I've never really bought the "You can't use that in here!" argument, though. A) You could always use a low-penetration weapon (like a dart launcher with cyanide-tipped darts, say);

I've seen a well-swung cutlass chop halfway through a 2 by 4. Anything a 9mm could damage this would destroy;

C) Any engineer who built such weak stuff deserves to be forced to fly in it.

 

I cant agree more with this method. I actually came in to suggest it from the topic title but oh well waaay to late.

 

Make stasis fields so cheap and simple to power they can be installed in watches, com links belt buckles, etc. That most people carry them around just in case. So any one serious at killing some one better have a hand to hand weapon available unless it s a surprise kill.

 

Make ranged weapons illegal and the power emissions from energy weapons easily detectable by standard security measures such as any theft detector in stores, malls, buildings, portable police radars etc.. making it unpractical to have them in the first place.

 

Slug weapons being illegal are outrageously expensive and hard to get. Heavy penalties to those carrying them, not to mention being considered a social pariah, even among criminals who consider ranged weapon users spineless scum, making them even outcasts among outcasts.

 

It can all stem from an ancient apocalyptic war that left a social scar on weapons of mass destruction and any type of gn that has carried on in to the generations.

 

Just some Ideas, hope I didn't bore you.

[Tom Carman]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

Every time I read this thread I think of MZ Bradley's Darkover Compact, but that is so situational that I can't think of a way to apply it here. The Compact states that no weapon may be used that does not bring its user within armsreach of death. When the Terran empire showed up, they were a bit amused at these medievalists who banned bows in favor of swordplay. (What the Darkovans were careful to never mention to the Terrannan was that the weapons actually banned by the Compact were ever so much nastier than mere bows, or directed energy pistols. Psionics applied to mining/refining had produced nigh-inextinguishable incendiaries and radioactive dusts, and things went downhill from there, with genetic manipulation and living weapons like Stormqueen!.)

[Trin-sarda]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

Who Is Most Likely To End Up On/Owning A Spaceship?

Geeks.

Who Is A Geek?

You. Me. Other LARPers/RPers/Pirate Fans/Ninja Fans/Etc.

What Kind Of Weapon Are They Likely To Use?

Whatever Is Coolest.

Which, In Our Opinion, Is A Sword.

Nuff Said!

[Trin-sarda]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

Also, Goa'uld Lords Have Personal Energy Shields That Work Against Anything Moving Too Quickly.

It Blocks Bullets And Energy Blasts, But Not Melee Weapons Nor Thrown Weapons.

A Couple Of 'Blanket-Effect' Fields On Ships To Make This Apply To Any Place On The Ship, Or Even Ship To Ship Combat, Means That The Only Way To Attack Is Boarding, If You Are Not Already On Board The Ship, Then AttackingWith Sword And Throwing Daggers/Stars.

Perfect For A Space Pirates Vs. Space Ninjas War.

Maybe You Could Call It 'The Star Wars' Saga.

Having The Ninjas Use Death Stars And The Pirates Use Some Kind Of Laser-based 'Light' Sabres.

[jaws]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

Also, Goa'uld Lords Have Personal Energy Shields That Work Against Anything Moving Too Quickly.

It Blocks Bullets And Energy Blasts, But Not Melee Weapons Nor Thrown Weapons.

A Couple Of 'Blanket-Effect' Fields On Ships To Make This Apply To Any Place On The Ship, Or Even Ship To Ship Combat, Means That The Only Way To Attack Is Boarding, If You Are Not Already On Board The Ship, Then AttackingWith Sword And Throwing Daggers/Stars.

Perfect For A Space Pirates Vs. Space Ninjas War.

Maybe You Could Call It 'The Star Wars' Saga.

Having The Ninjas Use Death Stars And The Pirates Use Some Kind Of Laser-based 'Light' Sabres.

 

You may be on to something there! Awesome Idea. I know this guy. Lucas something whom I can probably convince in to making some movies about it. It would be around this PC I though of that is really evil but cool, he is with the ninjas but is more like a samurai with cybernetic implants due to terrible burning when he was younger by his mentor.

 

A real epic Prodigal father story.

[Nyrath]

Re: How to get swords on your starship

 

Also, Goa'uld Lords Have Personal Energy Shields That Work Against Anything Moving Too Quickly.

It Blocks Bullets And Energy Blasts, But Not Melee Weapons Nor Thrown Weapons.

And is obviously stolen from the Holtzman Shield featured in Frank Herbert's novel DUNE (1965).

 

But that's OK. Herbert swiped the idea from Charles Harness' novel The Paradox Men (1954)