What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

[Manic Typist]

So, for those of us who are stuck waiting for the Fantasy Hero book to be reprinted, what exactly does the "Spell" limitation represent, and what impacts does it have upon gameplay, etc?

 

Pros, cons, examples? Trying to decide if I should incorporate it into my games as a legitimate Limitation.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

basically, it restricts you from using a boatload of the standard combat modifiers and maneuvers, pretty much removing most or all of the Superheroic or military (Autofire mostly) genre bits, as well as anything that lets you increase or decrease damage, dex order or number of attacks.

So no MPA, no sweeps, no Haymakers, no bouncing or spreading, etc.

 

It's functionally similar to the Beam limit, but more limiting, hence the larger limitation value

[Curufea]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

And more importantly "subject to magical weather effects and availability". Such that if the setting has magic-poor areas, it affects spellcasting.

 

Well, that's the bit I regard as important, anyway

[Markdoc]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

Depends on your game - we discussed it a while ago and several GMs (including me) said they didn't use it, while a few said they did. In my case, I've never had people try to spread, push or bounce spells, so it's basically a -0 limit.

 

cheers, Mark

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

As stated above, it rremoves a lot of options from attack spells, and it is only for attack spells (with some exceptions, IMO). Applying the Spell limitation means that the spell can't be spread, bounced or pushed [i've found Spreading very useful, especially with, say, an Entangle or a Flash spell].

 

It cannot be used in a Multiple Power Attack, so no firing off three of your attack spells at once. In the TA "divide by three" structure, that removes a key capability. Under a system where all spells are in frameworks, it may be less of an issue.

 

It can't be rapid fired or used in a Sweep, so you can't fire off several Flaming Bolts at once at that very large, low DCV target to try and get some damage through.

 

In my view, it's worth the -1/2 limitation.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

I use this as a blanket limitation on all my magic; I used it universally among all of the designs for my spell conversions, for the simple reason that it allows a greater depth of flexibility and increases granularity.

 

Because I defined each school of magic in a manner similar to the original d20 model, that blocks out a lot of conventional bonuses that can be applied. I don't consider it similar to Beam; for me, it means that magic requires its own bonuses, its own modifiers. You need to purchase separate CSLs, skill levels, and so on to handle magic properly in my game; it keeps people who would play "Fighter/Wizards" from outpowering everyone else through a single application of CSLs.

 

In HERO System Terms, it means that:

 

* You purchase each skill individually

* You can purchase skill groups normally (for example, +1 with 3 schools of spells is perfectly legal, but it only applies to magic)

* It does (as Hugh notes) prohibit "spell abuse" in MPAs; some spells are built with Autofire to handle that.

 

So it depends on the GM. It fits very well for the (comparatively) limited form of magic that I'm using in that campaign.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

As the inestimable Markdoc said, we recently discussed it in another thread, and Im one of the GM's that thinks its "crap" and doesnt use it.

 

Basically, it disallows various combat options that might not be in effect in your campaign anyway, or that common spell "initialization" style Lims like Incant or Gestures or Extra Time already make generally not usable.

 

Generally, I use Beam when its appropriate for Missile effects, and MPA's are generally already kiboshed by the other Lims on a spell.

 

The Spell Lim gets ::thumbdown: from me.

[Manic Typist]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

Yeah, I'm not sure that I'm in love with it either.

 

Thia, I like the idea of not allowing some levels of CSLs to be used with Magic (either specific CSLs with combat, or All Combat).

 

Perhaps I should decrease its value, or model my own....

[1EyedJack]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

I like the spell limitation and it while it has its book effects it also gives the GM an option to enforce genre and magic system elements which will vary from campaign to campiagn.

[Rapier]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

I haven't actually done much FH work over the years.

 

I can see that in some campaigns the Spell Limitation would have value and meaning and not so much in others.

 

It's use greatly depends on the feel of magic you want in your game.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

I like the spell limitation and it while it has its book effects it also gives the GM an option to enforce genre and magic system elements which will vary from campaign to campaign.

 

That's not really using the "Spell" Lim in the book then; its defining a custom Lim and just happening to give it the same label.

[Fitz]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

That's not really using the "Spell" Lim in the book then; its defining a custom Lim and just happening to give it the same label.

 

To tell the truth, that's pretty much the way I've always used it -- when I've used it at all. These days I just lay out a bunch of campaign-wide restrictions on how all spells work; the limitation is therefore implied and doesn't really need to be restated within the spell description.

 

I could see it being an actual limitation in a campaign where different types of powers are available to the characters, otherwise it's a -0 and just adds to the verbosity of the description.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

To tell the truth, that's pretty much the way I've always used it -- when I've used it at all. These days I just lay out a bunch of campaign-wide restrictions on how all spells work; the limitation is therefore implied and doesn't really need to be restated within the spell description.

 

I could see it being an actual limitation in a campaign where different types of powers are available to the characters, otherwise it's a -0 and just adds to the verbosity of the description.

 

And there is nothing wrong with that. But people should be aware of the difference and be clear with people that want to know what the actual real official Lim is. Context context context

[Thia Halmades]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

This is also why (since my use may in fact deviate from the primary use) that I instructed people to take it off if you wanted to use the spells as I wrote them in KS's system, because he is NOT a fan.

[Hellion]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

The greatest influencer of what constitutes a successful character design within the context of a campaign are the campaign elements the GM chooses to emphasize.

-Killer Shrike

 

Often I have wondered how to stress to my players that their idea for a character concept, power, etc.. did not fit into the context of my game. Gamers by nature are creative so a player can spin an explanation usually that will by whatever circumstance explain away that which I was not comfortable with about their character design. I will use this quote to help explain it to them.

 

As for the spell limitation, I am going to use it in my upcoming fantasy campaign to place restrictions on magic (low magic world) and to add a varying flavor to any character, which may be varied depending on character concept.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

The greatest influencer of what constitutes a successful character design within the context of a campaign are the campaign elements the GM chooses to emphasize.

-Killer Shrike

 

Often I have wondered how to stress to my players that their idea for a character concept, power, etc.. did not fit into the context of my game. Gamers by nature are creative so a player can spin an explanation usually that will by whatever circumstance explain away that which I was not comfortable with about their character design. I will use this quote to help explain it to them.

 

As for the spell limitation, I am going to use it in my upcoming fantasy campaign to place restrictions on magic (low magic world) and to add a varying flavor to any character, which may be varied depending on character concept.

 

 

If you like it that much, here is an entire article about it:

 

Relevance & Reliability

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

I feel it's sufficiently limiting enough to warrant the -1/2 limitation, myself.

[Damascan]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

So' date=' for those of us who are stuck waiting for the Fantasy Hero book to be reprinted[/quote']

 

Ummm, is there some reason you don't want to buy the e-book? Much more flexible, doesn't take up shelf space or wear out, and you can always print out any particular pages you need. I like the e-books better, except for the main Hero book because of this versatility. Also, it's always with me on my laptop....

[Manic Typist]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

Nothing wrong with e-book, but:

 

1) I would want to make sure that the e-book I bought was as up to date as the Fantasy Hero reprint that I hear is in the works.

 

2) I just love the sheer pleasure of owning the book. I find it much more accessible, and I enjoy adding to my collection.

[Damascan]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

Nothing wrong with e-book, but:

 

2) I just love the sheer pleasure of owning the book. I find it much more accessible, and I enjoy adding to my collection.

 

I know what you mean. Getting access to the stacks of an old library, pulling down a dust-smelling tome and opening it only to find that the pages still need to be cut --- ah, the stuff of epics, eh? That's why we play FH I guess...

 

BTW, the book with the uncut pages turned out to be not entirely relevant for my thesis, but it was still a pleasure to read and a privilege to be its first reader.

 

Maybe someday they will make e-books with a dusty smell to them, and a feel of rough paper...

[Killer Shrike]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

I know what you mean. Getting access to the stacks of an old library, pulling down a dust-smelling tome and opening it only to find that the pages still need to be cut --- ah, the stuff of epics, eh? That's why we play FH I guess...

 

BTW, the book with the uncut pages turned out to be not entirely relevant for my thesis, but it was still a pleasure to read and a privilege to be its first reader.

 

Maybe someday they will make e-books with a dusty smell to them, and a feel of rough paper...

 

It is more likely that one day owning something actually printed on something as valuable as paper will be a crime.

[Manic Typist]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

I know what you mean. Getting access to the stacks of an old library, pulling down a dust-smelling tome and opening it only to find that the pages still need to be cut --- ah, the stuff of epics, eh? That's why we play FH I guess...

 

BTW, the book with the uncut pages turned out to be not entirely relevant for my thesis, but it was still a pleasure to read and a privilege to be its first reader.

 

Maybe someday they will make e-books with a dusty smell to them, and a feel of rough paper...

 

I enjoy that smell, and the feel of the paper, as well. It's purely psychological.

 

The uncut book- collector's item. Something with a little story. Has its own kind of value, even if it will never be a hot item on the marketplace.

[Damascan]

Re: What exactly is the "Spell" limitation?

 

It is more likely that one day owning something actually printed on something as valuable as paper will be a crime.

 

Ahah. I see you've read and appreciated Fahrenheit 451. I myself have found myself wondering if someone recently went back in time and stepped on a butterfly...

 

Nice to know that I'm not alone in my appreciation of books. Especially books on a sunny autumn day, sitting in a window seat...