Attuning to Magic Items

[mayapuppies]

Hello my fellow Hero-types,

 

As some of you may know I'm still working on the Kamarathin game world. One of the things that I've been thinking on is the whole magic-items thingy.

 

I am running a low-magic campaign that is also very skill heavy (still need to pick up the Ultimate Skill). I have a problem with players gaining magic items "free of charge" and want to make them spend points for them.

 

Now in my world you can't run on down to Ye olde Magic Shop or bash open some lonely crates&barrels to acquire these items. They are rare and wonderous things. So I don't have to worry about players saving up their points and/or coin to go buy some.

 

However, magic items can be relatively expensive and essentially putting the character into exp. debt for a new toy doesn't exactly seem fair. So I'm thinking of running it like this:

 

If a player gets a magic item, he must make an attunement roll. This roll is a flat 18-. This is then adjusted by the point value of the magic item, much like the RSR limitation on a spell.

 

Should the player succeed with his or her roll, then that player is able to utilize that magic item and the cost system kicks into gear.

 

From this point on, the characters earned exp is split between the magic item and "regular" exp. useage. Once the magic item has been "bought" with enough exp., the player will get his full allotment for regular useage once again.

 

In addition, the player does have the option to allocate more exp into the magic item but never less.

 

Thoughts?

[Page Fault]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

I've actually run into this thought with my own campaign, and I had a solution that I believe should work. It's not particularly novel, but you might want to consider it.

 

For minor magic items, doing what you suggest works fine, since within a session or two, it should be paid off. For more complex items, why don't you consider partial attunement? As the character uses the item and becomes more in sync with its properties, they learn to use it better, and can buy various abilities in a tiered system. It's a tiny bit more work for the GM, but items that powerful should be rare enough that it isn't an issue, right?

 

If you want to be really fancy, you can simply offer them a list of point costs, instead of listing what the exact powers are, so they don't know what they're unlocking. Or perhaps require an in-game event("Your sword can parry arrows?" "... Apparently so.")

 

And of course, there are a few solutions offered in the Fantasy Hero book itself.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

I'm not fond of the "pay points for all items" approach, but it occured to me the other night as I was poking through my Amber rulebooks that there might be an interesting way to handle it. Amber had an interesting idea with the whole Good Stuff/Bad Stuff idea that could be ported into HERO. Essentially, it'd be banking points in Luck (positive) or Unluck (negative). Nothing saying you can't grab every wonderous magicial goodie you find and hoard them like Gollum... but the universe will turn on you.

Come to think of it, a lot of the big mojo magic items in fiction and myth seem to have a serious hot-potato bad luck effect

[mayapuppies]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

These are both really good ideas. Hmmm

[Labrat]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

How about treating magic items like normal weapons? Straight -3 to any applicable roll unless they by a 'Magic Item Familiarity' skill at 3 pts per item. That way they can only work on 'attuning' to it via experience (points).

 

You could even scale the MIF cost up by an AP/10 rule or some such deal... the nice part about this is that they can ONLY 'buy' it by using XPs which should take a while under the standard HERO awards model, it just won't take them forever to do so.

 

I haven't field tested this yet, but I have been meaning to try it once I get time to run another game.

 

Just my $0.02.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

Why not just treat them like Foci? If they don't pay points for them, they'll get taken away somehow.

[Spence]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

What if the items themselves do not inherently perform the magic, but rather absorb "essence" from their wielder that gains expression as a power.

 

For example. You create a magic sword that has combat bonuses and damage adds. I'm not going to stat it out but lets say that after all the calculations is has +4 to hit and +4D6 damage and lets say each +2 to hit costs 1 active point and each +1D6 damage costs 3 points. So you preplot the sword.

 

+2 to hit

+1D6

+1D6

+2 to hit

+1D6

+1D6

 

when the PC first picks up the sword it doesn't do anything. But as the game plays and the character gains experience he can choose to give points to the sword. As the total paid rises the swords power "awakens".

 

When the first point is paid the sword gains +2 to hit. The next 3 points will awaken the first +1D6. after that another +1D6 and so on.

 

The actual powers and costs can be kept secret or not depending on your style of play.

 

If another player picks it up it is just a sword, but when you pick it up "It remembers" you and you are still attuned to it and able to invoke its power.

[Markdoc]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

Why not just treat them like Foci? If they don't pay points for them' date=' they'll get taken away somehow.[/quote']

 

More to the point, what happens when the players pay points for them and then they get taken away?

 

cheers, Mark

[mayapuppies]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

Hmmm, still mulling this over. You've all supplied good thoughts and advice. Thank you.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

More to the point, what happens when the players pay points for them and then they get taken away?

 

cheers, Mark

 

Even more to the point, why does something being a focus even invite the idea it'll be "taken away?"

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

More to the point, what happens when the players pay points for them and then they get taken away?

 

If the Focus is Independent, they're SOL. The points go away. If not, they either get the item back, somehow (it doesn't have to be easy, and it could be like a campaign quest) or they get the points back.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

Even more to the point' date=' why does something being a focus even invite the idea it'll be "taken away?"[/quote']

 

"A limitation that doesn't limit is not worth points."

[1EyedJack]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

I could never see making a heroic caharacter pay for a magic item they earned adventuring, maybe if they wanted to begin with it,but not if they found it adventureing. as the GM you have total control over any item found so with careful preperation they should never present a game balance issue. the only advantage to being a heroic (normal) character is you don't pay for eqiutment with points.

[McCoy]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

More to the point, what happens when the players pay points for them and then they get taken away?

 

cheers, Mark

It, or its replacement, somehow finds its way home.

[McCoy]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

If you want to keep magic rare, how about magic items can only work for their creator?

 

If a character wants a magic sword, he must have the "Weaponsmith" and "enchanting" skills, then spend the XP to enchant the blade. He dies, the blade rust away instantly.

 

Likewise a magic staff requires woodworking, enchant, and putting you essence (XP) into it. More enchantments may be added as they earn more XP.

 

And it explains why the magically indestructable wizard's tower falls like a stock market crash when they off the bad guy. Can't just move into the newly vacant indestructable tower.

[sbarron]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

If you want to keep magic rare, how about magic items can only work for their creator?

 

If a character wants a magic sword, he must have the "Weaponsmith" and "enchanting" skills, then spend the XP to enchant the blade. He dies, the blade rust away instantly.

I was thinking something very similar yesterday. Magic only works for whoever places their blood/essence/spirit into the item during creation. So you could have someone make it for you, but you'd have to be there to contribute whatever it takes to "attune" you to the magic item.

 

I probably won't think about this more, but if I win the lottery, I will.

[Damascan]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

More to the point, what happens when the players pay points for them and then they get taken away?

 

cheers, Mark

 

It' date=' or its replacement, somehow finds its way home.[/quote']

 

'somehow finding its way home' is the key to many new adventure plots.'

 

Just remember if the player doesn't pay for the FOCI with his/her points, then the FOCI can go away --- forever. Or it may take him a looooong time to recover it. No guarantees in this Fantasy Hero life.

[Damascan]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

I was thinking something very similar yesterday. Magic only works for whoever places their blood/essence/spirit into the item during creation. So you could have someone make it for you, but you'd have to be there to contribute whatever it takes to "attune" you to the magic item.

 

I probably won't think about this more, but if I win the lottery, I will.

 

Hmm. I'm not sure I'd want a magic item with my essence in it, especially if that meant that it would have some of my personality. I'm sometimes (or often, depending on who you talk to) a terrible nag, rules-lover, and stick-in-the-mud. Then again, maybe that's why so many of magic items end up separated from their original owners --- one or the other decides it's time to part ways...

[Markdoc]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

Even more to the point' date=' why does something being a focus even invite the idea it'll be "taken away?"[/quote']

 

Because if it couldn't be taken away it wouldn't be a focus. That's *why* you get a limitation for a focus.

 

On the game side, players gain stuff and lose stuff. A game in which no-one ever lost any of their gear would be doable, but wierd. It'd also require great restraint and skill on the part of the GM. Maybe it can be done: I ran a successful game where players did not accumulate gear or adventure for loot. The only magical item they ever gained, they gave away. But that's very clearly an exception, rather than the rule (and they still lost stuff, but since they hadn't invested points in it, that was no big deal)

 

The start of the thread pretty clearly implies the players *will* be gaining loot. Unless the intention is that they become ever more powerful by accumulating items, gaining a panopoly of items over time, then addressing the question of how they will react to losing something they have invested points in seems sensible.

 

cheers, Mark

[UltraRob]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

Random thought as I was reading this thread:

 

Why not treat items bought as focus for points more as a kind've right to have something worth that cost than the cost of that particular item per-se. Kind've like an odd gadget pool, but with a lot more GM whim-based limits. So if a player loses an item he paid points for, he has the "right" to use those points to buy something else to replace it further down the line. Maybe even something costing more if he's willing to invest more points into it.

 

I realize this could be dangerous, since you could have players losing weapons whenever they want to upgrade, but if the GM is making them work to replace those weapons in a good adventuring and roleplaying way, even that's not much of a problem.

 

Rob

[Damascan]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

Random thought as I was reading this thread:

 

Why not treat items bought as focus for points more as a kind've right to have something worth that cost than the cost of that particular item per-se. Kind've like an odd gadget pool, but with a lot more GM whim-based limits. So if a player loses an item he paid points for, he has the "right" to use those points to buy something else to replace it further down the line. Maybe even something costing more if he's willing to invest more points into it.

 

I realize this could be dangerous, since you could have players losing weapons whenever they want to upgrade, but if the GM is making them work to replace those weapons in a good adventuring and roleplaying way, even that's not much of a problem.

 

Rob

 

Actually, I've seen this idea before, perhaps in some of the Hero books, but most definitely in Oddhat's Imperium Romanum thread.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Attuning to Magic Items

 

So if a player loses an item he paid points for, he has the "right" to use those points to buy something else to replace it further down the line. Maybe even something costing more if he's willing to invest more points into it.

 

I realize this could be dangerous, since you could have players losing weapons whenever they want to upgrade, but if the GM is making them work to replace those weapons in a good adventuring and roleplaying way, even that's not much of a problem.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. Your points are yours. The only time you can't do this is if you bought the item with Independant. In fact it makes a lot of sense for keeping Heroic games from creeping into the feel of the Superheroic. It drives home the idea that you are you, not your stuff (a common result in that other game system).