Steve Posted February 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... Please no! If my wife catches me with another drow she'll feed some bits of me to the driders that I really want to keep. Ah, sounds like he already has a female Drow in his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teflon Billy Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... The only "hates" or really strong dislike I have is when dandelion eaters' date=' neck munchers or flea bags are a central part of the world view. Cropping up once in a while as a disposable plot item is fine. As a key long term story element, no.[/quote']What? TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... What? TB dandelion eaters, neck munchers or flea bags Elves, Vampires, or Werewolves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Spear Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... Ah' date=' sounds like he [i']already[/i] has a female Drow in his life. It's not so bad. (And I'll keep saying that just as long as she's in earshot!) Ok so she really is a wonderful woman and the best thing that ever happened to me. Doesn't mean I have to tell YOU guys that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... I'm hoping that the Urban Fantasy Hero book discusses a wide range of power levels and options. You can build a vampire on relatively few points for basic abilities and a Heroic power level, and crank one up to godlike levels for Superheroic levels. The power levels seen in movies like Cast a Deadly Spell and the new Sci-Fi Channel series Dresden are more what I hope to see well detailed in the upcoming book. Although doing something like Bewitched could be fun with the right gaming group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... To me, 'urban fantasy' is mostly along the lines of Tim Powers or Mercedes Lackey in her better moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... Best semi-serious take on it was GURPS Cabal and Black Ops' date=' taken as a single coherent setting.[/quote'] I think that GURPS Cabal is one of the very best horror/dark fantasy setting books ever published. And Black Ops is cool too, not least becasue that's the way I always wanted to handle the 'Conspiracy' in a game: let the heroes get their hands around the Lord High Illuminati's neck and twist his head off. Not very sophisticated, but incredibly satisfying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... The Wizard of the Pigeons by Megan Lindstrom. That, to me, is Urban Fantasy. Not only is magic & such-like hidden from the bulk of humanity, it is found only among the poor of the city; the down-trodden, the homeless, the "disenfranchized" are the only ones still in contact with magic. Unless, of course, it's all the delusions of a few nut-jobs. One of the best books I ever read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... The power levels seen in movies like Cast a Deadly Spell and the new Sci-Fi Channel series Dresden are more what I hope to see well detailed in the upcoming book. Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... I'm hoping that the Urban Fantasy Hero book discusses a wide range of power levels and options. You can build a vampire on relatively few points for basic abilities and a Heroic power level, and crank one up to godlike levels for Superheroic levels. The power levels seen in movies like Cast a Deadly Spell and the new Sci-Fi Channel series Dresden are more what I hope to see well detailed in the upcoming book. Although doing something like Bewitched could be fun with the right gaming group. Some of the "vampires" from Night Watch fit the low end nicely. Speaking of which... Night Watch is a really cool example of how to do a type of Urban Fantasy. It's a russian movie that came out a couple years ago - do an IMDB search if you're interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... I'd like to see a role playing treatment of a world where Magic has always been there, maybe it's different in the manner of it's use, but it exists and it is openly used. TB E.g., the Lord Darcy stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... Some of the "vampires" from Night Watch fit the low end nicely. Speaking of which... Night Watch is a really cool example of how to do a type of Urban Fantasy. It's a russian movie that came out a couple years ago - do an IMDB search if you're interested. And if you are, the second movie (Daywatch) is out now. Haven't seen it myself, but the reviews so far all agree it's better than Nightwatch, which means it's definately worth catching. It's on my very, very short list of movies to look forward to. Also the original trilogy is apparently now being stretched to 4 movies. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... I could only find Day Watch in Russian with no subtitles sadly.... But I'm keeping an eye out for a version of the movie I can understand. From my understanding Night Watch and Day Watch only cover the first actual book. The subsequent movies are covering the next two books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... I could only find Day Watch in Russian with no subtitles sadly.... But I'm keeping an eye out for a version of the movie I can understand. From my understanding Night Watch and Day Watch only cover the first actual book. The subsequent movies are covering the next two books. Your understanding is correct. Originally, Daywatch was going to be called Nigtwatch II: the chalk of fate. No, I kid you not - apparently it's about a piece of chalk! But they decided to go for a snappier title! cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... I suppose the Sci-Fi Channel mini-series The Lost Room could also be considered an Urban Fantasy story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... Your understanding is correct. Originally, Daywatch was going to be called Nigtwatch II: the chalk of fate. No, I kid you not - apparently it's about a piece of chalk! But they decided to go for a snappier title! cheers, Mark I'd heard that as well. It's a piece of chalk that can rewrite history. Makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... ... or Mercedes Lackey in her better moments. She has better moments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... She has better moments? Addressed to VDM and others: If I might ask, just why are some folks here on the board down on Misty Lackey? I have my own reasons for disliking some of her books, and was wondering why others didn't care for her writing. Not looking for a fight or anything, just honestly curious and hoping for an answer. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... Danger Will Robinson: The following opinion is stated in frank language. 1. She writes like a teenage girl with outmoded, cliched, unwaveringly correct political ideas and a simplistic world view. 2. Her protagonists act like (and often are) teenage girls with outmoded, cliched, unwaveringly correct political ideas and simplistic world view. 3. Her supporting casts tend to be one dimensional caricatures that conveniently affirm the outmoded, cliched, unwaveringly correct political ideas and simplistic world views of her protagonists. 4. Her plots and protagonists are agonizingly unoriginal. I can forgive it once, maybe twice. Nobody is hot all the time, but... "Hey, Misty! Do something new alright!" We all have an off day now and again, but for 60 books running?! 5a. She doesn't bother to research real world cultures or historical periods when she writes about them - and butchers them while insisting she's done her homework and remained faithful to what she's trying to portray. 5b. She uses foreign languages incorrectly - often with farcical errors resulting. Indeed, the male ban sidhe still cracks me up. 5c. She suffers from a heady dose of ethnocentrism in the classical sense - she doesn't even try to filter out her personal views and experience when writing about other times and places (and I don't think she could if her life depended on it). It would seem everyone ever born makes the same value judgments she does no matter where or when they were born, and no matter how radically different their culture is (in theory) from our own. 6. I'm male. I'm an adult. I live in a complex, dangerous world that is constantly changing and demands one acquire maturity and a sophisticated point of view to survive, let alone succeed. And one in which people do not share a universal value system. Compare that with 1-5c above. 7. She copyedits like she's posting on the Hero Boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... what about Steven Brust's Taltos books? While certainly Fantasy, and mostly in Urban settings (though not always), generally Urban Fantasy is referring to Fantasy elements (magic, faerie, etc) in a modern urban setting, not just an urban one. I'm pretty sure that is the take on it that Hero games will be using. Don't get me wrong, I love Brust's stuff. It just isn't what the term is usually used to mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... Actually, I suppose Urban Fantasy could cover more than just the modern day. For example, I could see Victorian London as a site for such stories as well. Urban Fantasy has always seemed to me to be magical elements existing in Industrial Age city settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... Actually, I suppose Urban Fantasy could cover more than just the modern day. For example, I could see Victorian London as a site for such stories as well. Urban Fantasy has always seemed to me to be magical elements existing in Industrial Age city settings. Potentially so, though my understanding is that it was coined specifically to describe Charles deLint's stuff. Either by him or by someone else and then used by him. I think Modern Fantasy might be more descriptive, though certainly not perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... Danger Will Robinson: The following opinion is stated in frank language. 1. She writes like a teenage girl with outmoded, cliched, unwaveringly correct political ideas and a simplistic world view. 2. Her protagonists act like (and often are) teenage girls with outmoded, cliched, unwaveringly correct political ideas and simplistic world view. That doesn't get any argument from me. Though showing 10th century characters who act like modern-day upper-middle-class Americans educated at Berkeley (or worse, like your simplistic teenagers) is hardly a writing sin unique to Ms. Lackey. Sometimes I think it'd be eaiser to list the authors who actually DO remember that not everyone, or at least not everyone who isn't insanely evil, shares the exact same outlook. 3. Her supporting casts tend to be one dimensional caricatures that conveniently affirm the outmoded' date=' cliched, unwaveringly correct political ideas and simplistic world views of her protagonists. [/quote'] Oh LORD yes. I remember how in so many of her Serrated Edge & Diana Tregarde books, all the Christians/Gummint black ops-slash-secret agent types/soldiers wree irredeemably evil. Unless they were gay or non-white. Then they were so achingly noble and virtuous they made your teeth ache. So yeah, her character skills could rise above the level of "Archie's Christian Comics". 4. Her plots and protagonists are agonizingly unoriginal. I can forgive it once' date=' maybe twice. Nobody is hot all the time, but... "Hey, Misty! Do something new alright!" We all have an off day now and again, but for 60 books running?![/quote'] Well, I've mostly just read her modern-day Faerie (and must we have yet another bunch of enlightened Aryan ubermen fae? With all the KEWL MAGIC POWERZ?) and the Tregarde mysteries, but yeah I've got to agree again. Her plotting isn't the best. Sheesh, I'm beginning to wonder why I ever read her stuff (aside from the novel with the kitsune in it; I like kitsune). Talking the Fae, I prefer treatments like Poul Anderson in his heroic fantasy novels (like THE MERMAN'S CHILDREN and THE BROKEN SWORD) or Feist's FAERIE TALE. For some reason, enlightened Aryan ubermen with kewl magic powerz just tend to leave me gagging these days. 5a. She doesn't bother to research real world cultures or historical periods when she writes about them - and butchers them while insisting she's done her homework and remained faithful to what she's trying to portray. Anything specific? I'm just asking because aside from her novel 'Sacred Ground' (was that the title? The one with Indian magic and the female Indian shaman-private detective) I don't remember her doing any cultures aside from Ren Faire Ireland. 5b. She uses foreign languages incorrectly - often with farcical errors resulting. Indeed, the male ban sidhe still cracks me up. 5c. She suffers from a heady dose of ethnocentrism in the classical sense - she doesn't even try to filter out her personal views and experience when writing about other times and places (and I don't think she could if her life depended on it). It would seem everyone ever born makes the same value judgments she does no matter where or when they were born, and no matter how radically different their culture is (in theory) from our own. Again, I agree wholeheartedly, but that's a common sin among writers. Though what amuses me is when they get called on it and respond that you must be some sort of racist/mysogynist/bigot for wondering why they don't show the attitudes of our ancestors, nasty as they were. 6. I'm male. I'm an adult. I live in a complex, dangerous world that is constantly changing and demands one acquire maturity and a sophisticated point of view to survive, let alone succeed. And one in which people do not share a universal value system. Compare that with 1-5c above. 7. She copyedits like she's posting on the Hero Boards. Well, as regards #6, I always thought of her fantasy, even at its worst and most preachy, as being essentially escapist. Sometimes you want sophistication, sometimes you want a hoo-rah story (though I'm more likely to look at Bob Howard or some other heroic fantasy authors then). But mostly, I have to agree with what you said above, and thanks for taking the time to say as much. That said, mind if I quote this on my LJ? I've been wanting to air some comments about Miss Lackey (and other authors of her stripe) for some time, and you said everything I could have said with far more style and economy. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... While certainly Fantasy, and mostly in Urban settings (though not always), generally Urban Fantasy is referring to Fantasy elements (magic, faerie, etc) in a modern urban setting, not just an urban one. I'm pretty sure that is the take on it that Hero games will be using. Don't get me wrong, I love Brust's stuff. It just isn't what the term is usually used to mean. Simon R Green, Tim Powers, Neil Gaiman, Sussanah Clarke, Steven Brust's Agyar and the like then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Re: When you hear Urban Fantasy... Addressed to VDM and others: If I might ask, just why are some folks here on the board down on Misty Lackey? I have my own reasons for disliking some of her books, and was wondering why others didn't care for her writing. Not looking for a fight or anything, just honestly curious and hoping for an answer. Thanks all. because she writes like bad fanfiction and dresses like her sparkly fairy poo characters. Sparklypoo Princess herald girl cantered up on her sparkly pony: 'My pony is magic and loves me! the people in my village don't like me but secretly their jealous, see:' A gruff fat bald tavern keeper walked up and into the scene. "I don't like her, but, secretly I'm jealous, why doesn't my mule talk to me?" the princess girl turned volupuously towards the ugly barkeep. 'My pony talks to me.' A tear rolled down his fat and hairy cheek and he spoke; 'I am filled with envy.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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