Vondy Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? I need to dig out and update the villain Super Squirrel. Dire Squirrels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? I've never seen wolves as "evil". They are "Bad Ass", and "bad ass" does what it wants. It is not beholden to our morals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolgroth Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? I've never seen wolves as "evil". They are "Bad Ass"' date=' and "bad ass" does what it wants. It is not beholden to our morals.[/quote']Nice one. I'd almost sig that line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? "evil" should only really apply to humans. Humans have morals. Animals don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? "evil" should only really apply to humans. Humans have morals. Animals don't. I think that's a definition issue, because there are some animal behavior experiment results that can be interpreted otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted February 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? I've never seen wolves as "evil". They are "Bad Ass"' date=' and "bad ass" does what it wants. It is not beholden to our morals.[/quote'] "evil" should only really apply to humans. Humans have morals. Animals don't. I don't think of animals as being good or bad either. I wasn't talking about 'are wolves evil or not?' in nature, I was talking about in fantasy fiction and gaming, both of which are being done by humans for humans -- unless you two are posting from your den in Yellowstone park or the like. And VDM, welcome back to the boards. I was wondering just where you'd gotten off to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? In fiction we often anthropomorphise - giving human traits to non-humans. It helps us interact with the world, while at the same time being completely useless and overly simplistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? I don't think of animals as being good or bad either. I wasn't talking about 'are wolves evil or not?' in nature, I was talking about in fantasy fiction and gaming, both of which are being done by humans for humans -- unless you two are posting from your den in Yellowstone park or the like. And VDM, welcome back to the boards. I was wondering just where you'd gotten off to. I too was talking fantasy fiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? It helps us interact with the world' date=' while at the same time being completely useless and overly simplistic.[/quote'] Can I quote you on that? Lucius Alexander The palindromedary ponders being both helpful and completely useless at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted February 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? I too was talking fantasy fiction. Sorry, I assumed you were talking about the actual RW animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? I think it is because wolves are considered symbolic of desire and hunger. And so wolves are seen as evil when these desires and hungers are cast in an evil light. While wolves that are shown in a positive light are usually take a role of defending or protecting an ally, even if they do so in a particularly violent manner (takedown, bite throat). Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? Wolves are depicted as evil 'cause they are evil! Bill. (They eat cute widdle bunny-wabbits!) But, Bill you're evil. So, the wolf that eats you is good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? Well with these things often people interpret how they want to interpret. If I remember my reading, wolves generally shy from humans if possible (at least direct contact). Like any other predator, though, they are trying to survive. So, they hunt what they can catch, which would be why your sheep disappear (ok Mightybec might be blamed for that one ) Anyhow, some of the things I might asscoiate with wolves: hunters, loyalty (to their pack), protectors, ferocious, vicious, bad@$$ (thanks Enforcer). Truthfully Wolves (and to a lesser extent bears) were my favorite animal(s) growing up. Note: And ferocious and vicious arent in themselves evil. You would want a protector to display these traits when someone/thing is trying to hurt you. Which probably proves that you see things, how you want to see them. And I'm still trying to figure out the difference between a bane and dire werewolf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? Sorry' date=' I assumed you were talking about the actual RW animal.[/quote'] Well, they are badass. (and I was being a wee bit sarcastic) But, I suppose it's up to the person viewing the fantasy. I mean reading somethings I can see where you're coming from, particulalry in fairy tales and such. But in modern fantasy Bad can equal Good, and Evil might be Cool. One of my recent characters was a Ranger in a standard D&D game, he was being groomed for an Animal Avatar style prestige class, I chose wolves. He saw his party as the "Pack", one of the other characters was the Alpha, he was just a loyal pack member. When someone joined the pack, he protected them, when someone or something threatened the Pack, he got all in their face. He was far from evil. Predetors are often viewed as evil in modern fantasy and new age BS animals (yer bunnies, and deer, and little birds) are "good" even though the only bunny we know steals souls for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted February 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? Predetors are often viewed as evil in modern fantasy and new age BS animals (yer bunnies' date=' and deer, and little birds) are "good" even though the only bunny we know steals souls for fun. [/quote'] Well, I think that's as much Disney influence as anything else. The worst example of that opinion that I ever saw was in the three Redwall novels by Brian Jacques that I read. All predators are not only evil but hopelessly stupid and treacherous; and all the cute nice disease-bearing rodents (mice and squirrels and shrews) are gentle, loving, and so innocent you wind up wondering if they all had lobotomies or something. Ugh. Such utterly crappy novels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? The formula for a Dizney movie: 1) One original plot, ground up. Take out nutritional value. 2) One bowl of suger. And hey, maybe another one. Oh heck, throw the whole bag in. 3) Now we need some dance tunes so everybody can suddenly dance, for no particular reason. 4) Stir well, serve tepid. Spiders have a worse reputation than wolves, yet spiders just eat other insects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damascan Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? Going back to the fairytale theme --- wolves not only represent the predator, but our darker side, which in our culture is tantamount to sexual. Don't forget how the wolf dressed as grandma invites little Red Riding Hood to get into bed with her because grandma is cold... The sexual overtones are there --- you just have to get the un-castrated versions of the fairy tales to see them. Men are depicted as wolves when they are 'hunting' for sex, so horny that they could howl... In the protestant US society, sex is dangerous and taboo --- so our sexuality is projected onto the wolf, which we can then freely hate and destroy, since it is now separate from us. Werewolves fit into this quite well -- look at the film 'Howling,' for example. Those who are sexual become werewolves and are destroyed... Things that people forget about real wolves --- they are the 'cleaners' of nature, killing the weak and sick. Also, male wolves have an amazing nurturing instinct -- they will care for young. I had a dog that was part wolf --- he actually drove our female cat away from her kittens so that he could look after them. In many ways he was right -- the cat was a horrible mother, losing her kittens regularly. He would gather them together and lick them clean. It was quite a site... On the bad side, the howling at the moon thing gets old quick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? The formula for a Dizney movie: 1) One original plot, ground up. Take out nutritional value. 2) One bowl of suger. And hey, maybe another one. Oh heck, throw the whole bag in. 3) Now we need some dance tunes so everybody can suddenly dance, for no particular reason. 4) Stir well, serve tepid. Spiders have a worse reputation than wolves, yet spiders just eat other insects. I think that's more the fact after Walt died, then before. Oh sure Walt had his sugary moments but he could put some dark moments into his work as well. The Night on Bald Mountain sequence in Fantasia for example, or the chase scene between Ichabod Crane and the Headless Horseman in thier version of the Sleepy Hollow story. Almost no sugar at all in thier old Zorro serials from, I think, the 60's or so. Thier Zorro wasn't shy about skewering the bad guy if he felt the situation warranted it. Just food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? Ok, ok, 'later Dizney movies'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? The Black Cauldron had no song-and-dance routines, and the scenes with the Cauldron Born were pretty nasty. On the other hand, The Black Cauldron wasn't all that great a movie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? The Black Cauldron had no song-and-dance routines' date=' and the scenes with the Cauldron Born were pretty nasty. On the other hand, The Black Cauldron wasn't all that great a movie...[/quote'] True but then Taran's story was a five book series. Not easy to condense that into one movie. Besides it wasn't all that bad either. It just needed a plot more in keeping with the book, among other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted February 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? True but then Taran's story was a five book series. Not easy to condense that into one movie. Besides it wasn't all that bad either. It just needed a plot more in keeping with the book' date=' among other things.[/quote'] Yeah, but what they did to Gurgi, Doli, and Flewddur Fflam... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? Yeah' date=' but what they did to Gurgi, Doli, and Flewddur Fflam... [/quote'] I've read the books, Gurgi was fairly close. The other two I'll agree with you on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? Can I quote you on that? Lucius Alexander The palindromedary ponders being both helpful and completely useless at the same time. Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Why must wolves be evil? I've read the books' date=' Gurgi was fairly close. [/quote'] You think so? I've read the books too, and I always had this image of Gurgi as a somewhat seedy werewolf type of critter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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