Hyper-Man Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: THE HARBINGER OF JUSTICE Writeup.. ... Why should you give up the ability to shoot someone in the leg or hand or head just because you are also able to get extra damage out of any firearm?... HOW the extra damage is achieved is paramount here. I could see your point in the narrow case of unrealistic/cinematic 'flick of the wrist action' that adds meaningful velocity to the bullets. If that was the power description it would be fine. But the power description does not match that sfx. If the description is increased accuracy in any way shape or form, then it really isn't increasing the force of the bullet. Bonus DC's to the base damage of bullets, whether from a power or ranged martial art, is just an alternative to actually using a targeted hit location mechanic. What if the optional Disabling rules (pg 417 5er) are being used in addition to using the optional Hit Location rules? How should bonus DC's that derive from hitting vulnerable spots be used to disable a spot like a hand beyond the base damage of the gun/bullet? At worst the hand might get blown off but the target shouldn't potentially be killed from it. It makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: THE HARBINGER OF JUSTICE Writeup.. I can see your point' date=' and while I agree with you to a certain degree, I think the final conclusion is overly restrictive. I thing that the player and/or GM should realise how good of a shot you are saying you are if you combine these, with an eye towards game balance. It should also be noted that style of campeign may have a lot to do with it, in a Dark Champions/Low Champions type game (think Spider-man or Daredevil) it may be more appropriate than in a cops type game..[/quote'] Well, I am talking in the context of a Dark Champions game since this is the forum for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: THE HARBINGER OF JUSTICE Writeup.. ... You can also buy a Naked Autofire advantage to allow you to use autofire any non-autofire firearm to show how fast you can shoot. This doesn't prevent you from doing a Rapid Fire maneuver as well, even though both are an example of your ability to shoot quickly. Those abilities are just ways to describe limited speed. In a NCM/non-true-superpower game, the ability to exceed certain DC levels can be wildly unbalancing especially when sectional resistant defenses are being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: THE HARBINGER OF JUSTICE Writeup.. Here's another way to frame the issue. What happens if a character is using a gun with the 'real weapon' limitation and wants to use the Haymaker maneuver with it? Would you allow it? If so why? Could it also be used to increase the bullet's chance of penetrating an armored door? How? A huge flick of the arm?? It doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: THE HARBINGER OF JUSTICE Writeup.. Well' date=' I am talking in the context of a Dark Champions game since this is the forum for it.[/quote'] So am I, but even Dark Champions has different levels of realism & power, what level of each you are playing at should influence what is and is not allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: THE HARBINGER OF JUSTICE Writeup.. Those abilities are just ways to describe limited speed. In a NCM/non-true-superpower game, the ability to exceed certain DC levels can be wildly unbalancing especially when sectional resistant defenses are being used. And here is the root of the problem. Not with the combination of abilities but "the ability to exceed certain DC levels". You are going over the limits you will be unbalanced. The source does not matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Re: THE HARBINGER OF JUSTICE Writeup.. The deadliest attack on either side right now hovers around 4d6 Killing. Anything over that and you get into GNC range, and that really isn't something I want to subject my players too if I can avoid it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Re: THE HARBINGER OF JUSTICE Writeup.. What's GNC stand for? The only thing I'm coming up with can't be right. =D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Re: THE HARBINGER OF JUSTICE Writeup.. HOW the extra damage is achieved is paramount here. I could see your point in the narrow case of unrealistic/cinematic 'flick of the wrist action' that adds meaningful velocity to the bullets. If that was the power description it would be fine. But the power description does not match that sfx. If the description is increased accuracy in any way shape or form, then it really isn't increasing the force of the bullet. Bonus DC's to the base damage of bullets, whether from a power or ranged martial art, is just an alternative to actually using a targeted hit location mechanic. What if the optional Disabling rules (pg 417 5er) are being used in addition to using the optional Hit Location rules? How should bonus DC's that derive from hitting vulnerable spots be used to disable a spot like a hand beyond the base damage of the gun/bullet? At worst the hand might get blown off but the target shouldn't potentially be killed from it. It makes no sense. This is only true if you feel that the only way to increase the damage done by a bullet is to increase it's force. Getting hit in some places in the arm will do more damage than getting hit in other places in the arm. Increasing the amount of damage you can do with a gun can be due to that factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Re: THE HARBINGER OF JUSTICE Writeup.. Those abilities are just ways to describe limited speed. In a NCM/non-true-superpower game, the ability to exceed certain DC levels can be wildly unbalancing especially when sectional resistant defenses are being used. Which is where the Ref has the responsibility to keep things balanced. I don't see the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadodel Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Re: THE HARBINGER OF JUSTICE Writeup.. I use 'Thoj' in my campaign. As is and for the reasons given in the write up. However, 'Thoj' doesn't go after the lower ranks or street level types of villains. 'Thoj' has followers to do that and they do it quite well. 'Thoj' goes after bosses and operators that are simply too dangerous for most Dark Champions to take on. Sure, those Dark Champions get involved somehow; but there is always someone or something beyond them and they have to be reminded of such from time to time. That said, 'Thoj' will only enter the storyline when the Dark Champions are facing villains with more than 250 points. This will let the players know that they have to be more prepared and thoughtful in the coming sessions as the danger level just went up considerably. A warning that a 'Thoj Story Arc' is about to happen gets the players plotting and strategizing with renewed enthusiasm. Players start spending earned character points that they've banked to upgrade their characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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