Idea on OIF/Side effect

[JmOz]

Idea for a character, tell me how cheesy this is

 

Character has an OIF: Armor

 

Among it's powers is a Shinking

 

on the shinking is also a Side effect

 

If the armor is taken from the character while shunk he stays the small size, basicaly making it always on (and probably STR does not add) until he has the armor back. I am trying to make the build as non complicated as I can...

 

Thinking a -1/4 Side effect should do it, plus the OIF, for a total of -3/4

 

thoughts?

[Mike W]

Re: Idea on OIF/Side effect

 

Idea for a character, tell me how cheesy this is

 

Character has an OIF: Armor

 

Among it's powers is a Shinking

 

on the shinking is also a Side effect

 

If the armor is taken from the character while shunk he stays the small size, basicaly making it always on (and probably STR does not add) until he has the armor back. I am trying to make the build as non complicated as I can...

 

Thinking a -1/4 Side effect should do it, plus the OIF, for a total of -3/4

 

thoughts?

 

I don't think Side Effect applies here. Side Effect normally takes place whenever the power is used. Or at least, has a random chance. I don't think you should(or even can) place Side Effect on a power if the Side Effect has no chance of taking effect when the power is activated or at a predetermined time afterward. I mean, taking away an OIF is REALLY hard to do. The character would get the full use of the power for the combat with no chance of the Side Effect activating in combat. They could even scout around in small size for hours(if they have the END) and have no chance of the Side Effect taking effect. I think this might be worth a -1/4 limit(aside from the OIF), but no more, and I would not define it as a side effect. I'd just use the rule for a unique focus and consider the shrinking part of the special effect, the same way that losing Miolnir would rob Thor of most of his Asgardian Magic if he lost it.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Idea on OIF/Side effect

 

My problem would be that you are giving the Hero a focus based power that continues to work for him even when the focus is removed. Would another character then be able to use the armour to shrink themselves by putting on the armour?? You can see the potential for abuse.

 

I would buy the armour with a transform that provides the wearer with no conscious control shrinking. I would limit the cost saving for the NCC using OIF. So if the user wears the armour then he has shrinking that can be used as desired. If the armour is removed he still has the power but no control over it (and so the GM can keep the wearer at the size he was when the armour weas removed or change it depending on circumstances).

 

So, if the cost of the shrinking was 60, NCC would normally make that cost 60/1+2 = 20 points. However, as the NCC has a focus limitation the 40 point saving becomes (40/1+0.5 = 27). Total cost 33 points.

 

I would leave the transform of the armour to the side if this is a superhero game but stat it out as an independent power if this is to be equipment in a heroic level game.

 

 

Doc

[OddHat]

Re: Idea on OIF/Side effect

 

I don't mind this as a side effect on the shrinking provided by the armor only; The way side effects work, if it applied to every power it would pretty quickly become meaningless.

 

It would be a transformation attack that inflicted a size based Phys Limit on the character when the armor was taken off, as well as gimping his STR and all of his offensive, defensive and movement powers. I'd take a look in the Ultimate Metamorph for ideas. The reason for making it that severe a penalty is to keep him from passing the armor around and shrinking the whole team. "A limitation that doesn't limit the character is worth no points" and all that.

[JmOz]

Re: Idea on OIF/Side effect

 

My problem would be that you are giving the Hero a focus based power that continues to work for him even when the focus is removed. Would another character then be able to use the armour to shrink themselves by putting on the armour?? You can see the potential for abuse.

 

I would buy the armour with a transform that provides the wearer with no conscious control shrinking. I would limit the cost saving for the NCC using OIF. So if the user wears the armour then he has shrinking that can be used as desired. If the armour is removed he still has the power but no control over it (and so the GM can keep the wearer at the size he was when the armour weas removed or change it depending on circumstances).

 

So, if the cost of the shrinking was 60, NCC would normally make that cost 60/1+2 = 20 points. However, as the NCC has a focus limitation the 40 point saving becomes (40/1+0.5 = 27). Total cost 33 points.

 

I would leave the transform of the armour to the side if this is a superhero game but stat it out as an independent power if this is to be equipment in a heroic level game.

 

 

Doc

 

As imagined: The armor would thereticaly be able to give the character taking it a version of growth if they could fit in the armor. The armor would stay the small size as well

 

Please, keep the ideas coming

 

Not to be nitpicky but you did the math wrong up there, you add the 27 to the cost of the power, for a total of 47...

[JmOz]

Re: Idea on OIF/Side effect

 

I don't mind this as a side effect on the shrinking provided by the armor only; The way side effects work, if it applied to every power it would pretty quickly become meaningless.

 

It would be a transformation attack that inflicted a size based Phys Limit on the character when the armor was taken off, as well as gimping his STR and all of his offensive, defensive and movement powers. I'd take a look in the Ultimate Metamorph for ideas. The reason for making it that severe a penalty is to keep him from passing the armor around and shrinking the whole team. "A limitation that doesn't limit the character is worth no points" and all that.

 

My thoughts was just on the shinking.

[OddHat]

Re: Idea on OIF/Side effect

 

My thoughts was just on the shinking.

 

Sorry, somehow missed it in the first post.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Idea on OIF/Side effect

 

Well, Always On is a -1/2 limitation, and OIF is a -1/2 limitation. Maybe the Shrinking should have Variable Limitation (-1/4; either OIF or Always On), rather than -3/4 for having only one in effect at any given point in time.

 

I assume the Shrinking itself is Persistent. Maybe this just comes down to SFX - the armor grants the ability to shrink and to return to normal size. Lose the armor while at normal size, you're trapped there. Lose it while shrunk, and you're trapped there. I'd call it SFX (not sufficient to be worth an added -1/4).

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Idea on OIF/Side effect

 

Not to be nitpicky but you did the math wrong up there' date=' you add the 27 to the cost of the power, for a total of 47...[/quote']

 

No. I had to think it through a couple of times as well.

 

The cost saving from the 60 point power is 40 points from a non-limited No Conscious Control, thus a total cost of 60-40 = 20 points.

 

The cost saving from the 60 point power is 27 points from a limited No Conscious Control (40/1.5), thus a total cost of 60-27 = 33 points.

 

My original calculation, like yours, was 47. I would be inclined to reverse the limitation values for this purpose - limiting a limitation requires a reverse. Using normal values would provide the following:

 

OAF 60 - (40/1+1) = 40 points

OIF 60 - (40/1+0.5) = 33 points

IIF 60 - (40/1+0.25) = 28 points

 

Reversed

 

IIF 60 - (40/1+1) = 40 points

OIF 60 - (40/1+0.5) = 33 points

OAF 60 - (40/1+0.25) = 28 points

 

It makes most senses that the more likely the focus is to get taken away and impose the full no conscious control, the bigger the cost break should be to the character. It needs a twist of the mind to get it but it does make sense - the less likely it is that a limitation will be imposed the smaller discount it should provide to the cost.

 

I think!

 

 

Doc

[tesuji]

Re: Idea on OIF/Side effect

 

under hero 5 i would use variable lim with oif and always on for -1/4.

 

under 5er with the new limits on variable lim, i would invent a new limitation which did the same thing and call it "limited power"

[gojira]

Re: Idea on OIF/Side effect

 

I might give it to ya as a -0 Lim, so you don't have to monkey with the variable lim. Mostly because this feels like a good SFX of the power, and SFX doesn't normally qualify for any limitation, points-wise.

 

If the SFX of your power is Fire, then you can also normally can set stuff on fire, melt things, make bonfires and light candles, all for free. You'll also take a little extra something from water powers (or even a garden hose), and do less damage against water powers, GM's choice. It all balances out so it's just -0, and good roleplaying.

 

 

That's my initial thought anyway. Conversation between GM and player might change this. But in general I agree with those saying that this lim really won't come into play that often, and it sounds like it's going to completely take your character out of the picture when it does. So that also makes it an "all or nothing power," and so also worthy of GM veto. You'll end up as a hostage for the villain, and kept under an upside-down drinking glass, until your team can come and rescue you.

 

It gets a -0 lim from me because I can't use it with out some major disadvantage to your character, so it becomes a plot device.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Idea on OIF/Side effect

 

Multiform. One form is always small, one form is always normal size, and the armor is required in order to switch forms.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Idea on OIF/Side effect

 

Buy the Shrinking Always On, because the character doesn't need the Armor to stay small. Buy off the Always On Lim with an OIF.

 

That almost works... except the character will instantly shrink any time the armor is taken away, the character shrinks even if he wasn't shrunk yet. That really won't work at all.

 

I know! Variable Limitation. The character must have either OIF or Always On on the Shrinking. Since this is less of a discount that either Lim on it's own, the GM can easily rule that the Always On just means he's stuck in whatever size he was in unless he has the Focus.