Generic DND Level and Class conversions

[azato]

Has anybody done a series of basic conversion write ups of classes by levels? For example, lets say I have an old DnD module (Slavers) and it says that one encounter is with both a 5th level thief and a 6th level fighter. Has anybody done and generic write ups where one could just pull that paticular class/level make a few minor modifications and have an NPC ready to go?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

D&D 3e Conversion

[azato]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

What I am using is a 3e conversion of the Slavers combined with your site to work out some NPCs. But I what I am looking for a LAZY MAN'S version - cookie cutter -- plain Jane. You know, where a description says Orc (F3) plus 10 normal orcs.

 

 

 

 

If nobody has anything like that, perhaps I will try my hand at it.

 

BTW, Killer Shrike - Your site is the best thing out there. AMAZING. I know you already know that.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

Thanx!

 

Conversions are provided for pretty much all the 3e class abilities, but I havent done a rigid series of level by level coversions since part of the goal of converting into HERO is to get away from levels

 

Ive been converting some higher level characters from Ptolus in my spare time recently, and the non spellcasters take about 30 minutes to an hour.

 

The Template idea I talk about is also useful in this regard; you can usually just throw together some of the Packages provided on the site and use them as is for generic characters. I mean if your bringing in a Slaver goon for instance, you can probably just take a Backbiter or Pirate Package, add a Race Package, maybe add some of the optional abilities, and call it a day.

 

Some examples are here.

[CourtFool]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

Assuming you are thinking of running these pre-designed adventures for a group you already know, allow me to suggest another approach. Consider the type and difficulty each challenge is suppose to present and then design the encounter in Hero from the ground up with those considerations and your PCs in mind.

 

For example, Orc (F3) + 10 Orcs would mean one challenging leader + 10 cannon fodder. The cannon fodder could be used right out of Bestiary or MMM. Add some additional skill levels and a higher BODY for your leader Orc and away you go.

 

5th level theif + 6th level fighter = a moderately experienced NPC with some basic combat and more advanced 'thief' type skills + a moderately experienced NPC with some more advanced combat abilities.

 

Working from the ground up with Hero will probably take you just as much time as trying to get your 'conversion' numbers just right.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

Not sure if this is really very helpful, and its not exact, but I threw this together as a rough guide for Fighters:

 

Fighter By Level

[azato]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

Actually, it does help a bunch! I still plan to come up with "roughed in" group of characters and your template will be extremely helpful.

 

 

 

I worked up some specific NPCs that I will post later to see if they make sense.

[azato]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

Some generic fighters to third level. I did not put in the specific martial arts feats although I allocated points towards that end. Criticisms welcome. I want to do this "right" since any errors will be compounded with each successive level.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

Although it was written for Fourth Edition HERO System, and therefore has minor cost differences from Fifth, Dungeon Hero attempted to translate the effects of levelled advancement according to the spirit of D&D. You might find the example useful. Here is where you can read the details of the author's mechanical innovation, and how it applies to individual character classes.

[azato]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

Assuming you are thinking of running these pre-designed adventures for a group you already know, allow me to suggest another approach. Consider the type and difficulty each challenge is suppose to present and then design the encounter in Hero from the ground up with those considerations and your PCs in mind.

 

For example, Orc (F3) + 10 Orcs would mean one challenging leader + 10 cannon fodder. The cannon fodder could be used right out of Bestiary or MMM. Add some additional skill levels and a higher BODY for your leader Orc and away you go.

 

5th level theif + 6th level fighter = a moderately experienced NPC with some basic combat and more advanced 'thief' type skills + a moderately experienced NPC with some more advanced combat abilities.

 

Working from the ground up with Hero will probably take you just as much time as trying to get your 'conversion' numbers just right.

 

 

You make a good point, but I still want a basic plug-n-play set of guys. There always may be someone you would never stat out, but circumstances will dictated that this background character become involved very directly with the PCs .

 

While certain NPCs may get special treatment it will be helpful to me for two reasons:

 

1. It will provide a quick "faceless" npc when called for.

 

2. It will help me to better build the "special" NPCs. In other words, make sure I am not exaggerating or ignoring a certain aspect.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

Personally, I wouldnt consider Dungeon HERO's approach to leveled advancement to be an "innovation".

 

"Travesty" would come closer to how I feel about it. But, thats just one man's opinion....

[azato]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

Here is the latest and greatest. I did not get any comments on the last upload so I am assuming that nobody saw any glaring errors (heh)

 

These are generic write ups. I included 0 level (50+50) and a random roll for weapon/sheild combos.

 

I think i will try rogues and thieves next.

[Lethosos]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

KS, if you need to I can find a way to send you copies of the base PC classes from the builder books, to add to the page. (I would rebalance Favored Soul, though...)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

The builder books?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

Ugh. Favored Soul was garbage. But that's IMO - YMMV.

 

Personally. Having come FROM d20 TO HERO. I am forced to ask one question. Why are you particularly concerned with instilling the same system overlay? You can convert the MOB directly - you could reasonably convert a Fighter/Pally/Ranger directly, and so forth. But they aren't the same game, so any 'conversion' is at least partially meaningless.

[Lethosos]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

I think Favored Soul is a tad bit overpowered, too. Thankfully, it feels too much like a scorceror to be of much use to anyone in my D&D group.

 

The Builder books are the Compleat series, and Dragon Magic, according to my collection. The Races series are also in this catagory, but they don't introduce base classes in there. The three "elemental" books(Stormwrack, for one) are also builders, but I don't have them and I feel it's a bit pointless right now.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

Ah. Yeah, those all came out after I quit D&D 3e and I wasnt about to buy the books just to convert them.

 

Besides, someone told me that a fair bit of the Compleat Warrior just ripped off stuff I had posted to EN Worlds back in the day; the idea of fighting style feats in particular.

 

But whatever, even if true I just adapted most of that stuff from my HERO System games, so I suppose nothing is truly original

 

 

 

My only concerns about you sending me the base class info is that (to the best of my knowledge) that material is not part of the SRD for D&D. I have no qualms about converting material from the SRD, or from older editions that are no longer in print, but I steer clear of converting other material that WotC might feel violates their IP.

 

If you can check the OGL disclaimer in the books to see if the base classes therein are considered fair game, if they are we will consider it.

[Lethosos]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

Well, I went and checked Dragon Magic, and I feel that because you're not actually putting copies up for distribution (free or otherwise) but converting and putting up the base stats in an entirely different system, you're not violating any contractual agreement. In fact, if you destroyed or kept entirely private the copied source material, they don't have a leg to stand on for legal purposes.

 

Does that clarify some things?

[MorpheousXO]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

Converted Warlock would be nice, though I am considdering just converting that one myself being that I am finally preparing for a D&D HERO game. Yes, I'll be attempting to do some write-ups after the first game.

 

On the notes of this, I've been making general NPCs for the Silver Marches in the Forgotten Realms setting. Basically I converted them by KS's Template idea. The Elf Archer uses the Moon Elf Racial Template Combined with the Light Foot with Ranged Combat choices; the Dwarf Heavy Infantry is the Shield Dwarf with the Heavy Foot. The Orc Warrior is a Savage.

 

Honestly with KS's site, the hardest part is Monster Conversion. Thus far I've only converted a Dretch, which was my test run on some ideas for how to handle certain things. Anyways, it takes a bit to convert something simple like a Dretch, but getting a bunch done soon would be a good idea too.

 

My whole point, though, is that with HERO so far it doesn't seem like you NEED a level progression system, because that Dwarf Heavy Infantry is gonna last a while, and all a veteran needs is 2 or more CSL's and maybe deadly blow or a few more BODY.

 

Oh, another thing that I've gone with for HERO Designer: don't bother fully statting out equipment. This being Heroic, it doesn't entirely matter. I just make a custom power, name it Longsword, and write the stats from the Equipment Guide/Fantasy HERO into the Notes field. This also helps those newbie players that have never played before and will get the living ship scared out of them with that mess of jargon (even though you can understand it perfectly).

 

All that's left for me is to get everyone (including myself) used to combat. It will be a learning experience for all (especially considdering one of them has ONLY ever played D&D, but two of them at least have some experience with Tri-Stat).

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

Converted Warlock would be nice, though I am considdering just converting that one myself being that I am finally preparing for a D&D HERO game. Yes, I'll be attempting to do some write-ups after the first game.

 

On the notes of this, I've been making general NPCs for the Silver Marches in the Forgotten Realms setting. Basically I converted them by KS's Template idea. The Elf Archer uses the Moon Elf Racial Template Combined with the Light Foot with Ranged Combat choices; the Dwarf Heavy Infantry is the Shield Dwarf with the Heavy Foot. The Orc Warrior is a Savage.

Ya, it all falls together quite easily.

Honestly with KS's site, the hardest part is Monster Conversion. Thus far I've only converted a Dretch, which was my test run on some ideas for how to handle certain things. Anyways, it takes a bit to convert something simple like a Dretch, but getting a bunch done soon would be a good idea too.

Really? Did you not find this document helpful?

My whole point, though, is that with HERO so far it doesn't seem like you NEED a level progression system, because that Dwarf Heavy Infantry is gonna last a while, and all a veteran needs is 2 or more CSL's and maybe deadly blow or a few more BODY.

Exactly. Minor tweaks expand the "lifespan" of a type of opposition quite a bit.

 

Oh, another thing that I've gone with for HERO Designer: don't bother fully statting out equipment. This being Heroic, it doesn't entirely matter. I just make a custom power, name it Longsword, and write the stats from the Equipment Guide/Fantasy HERO into the Notes field. This also helps those newbie players that have never played before and will get the living ship scared out of them with that mess of jargon (even though you can understand it perfectly).

 

Ya; I generally use an empty "list" for non-magical weapon, and put all the relevant info in the name field of the list. Full write ups for run of the mill mundane gear are generally not relevant or needed.

 

All that's left for me is to get everyone (including myself) used to combat. It will be a learning experience for all (especially considdering one of them has ONLY ever played D&D, but two of them at least have some experience with Tri-Stat).

 

Take it easy at first, and don't over challenge the party. Encourage the players that arent testing the system much with reminders as to various options they might want to take rather than just "strike".

 

I recommend you use some kind of visual means of tracking END, BODY, and STUN such as colored glass beads at the beginning, as it a) helps people remember to keep track of it, prevents a lot of scribbling and erasing (which slows down the game), and c) adds a fun and colorful physical dimension to a normally boring task of accountancy.

 

Once players adapt to the concepts and you can trust them to not get confused on which stat to subtract to when, you'll likely find it faster to dispense with the memory aides, but in the meantime it can be very helpful.

 

You can also do the same thing with CSL's and a pair of index cards for OCV and DCV for each player.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Generic DND Level and Class conversions

 

My only concerns about you sending me the base class info is that (to the best of my knowledge) that material is not part of the SRD for D&D. I have no qualms about converting material from the SRD, or from older editions that are no longer in print, but I steer clear of converting other material that WotC might feel violates their IP.

 

If you can check the OGL disclaimer in the books to see if the base classes therein are considered fair game, if they are we will consider it.

 

That means that the one I really want to have done, a couple of Hexblades, are completely out of the question as that class is Closed Content.

 

Then again, that class is sort of fouled up by the alignment system, because to be a Hexblade you are required to behave unethically or you lose your class features. IIRC, all Lawful or Good alignments are off-limits to Hexblades, so if the GM insists on you playing your alignment and you have a Hexblade PC you are obligated to act a right bastard as frequently as possible.

[CourtFool]

Sor/rog

 

That means that the one I really want to have done' date=' a couple of Hexblades, are completely out of the question as that class is Closed Content.[/quote']

 

If I remember correctly, Hexblades are just Sorcerer/Rogue. How difficult can that be? Buy some spells and some rogue type skills. Whamo! Done.