Sir Ofeelya Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 I have a player in my Fantasy game who wants to make an undead necromancer PC. I liked the idea - being not alive but with free will, secret ID (undead after all). How would you suggest we build the character? As an automaton, or some other way? Cheers Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC I have a player in my Fantasy game who wants to make an undead necromancer PC. I liked the idea - being not alive but with free will' date=' secret ID (undead after all). How would you suggest we build the character? As an automaton, or some other way?[/quote'] I would recommend against building it as an Automaton, which is verboten in 5th Edition, though Digital Hero #10 does have optional rules for building characters with Automaton abilities such as "Takes no STUN". One of my first posts here (if not the first) was for a zombie character, Dao Sing; you may find the suggested SFX for IPE helpful, though it was written before I had access to 5ER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC It depends a lot on how you feel about certain caveats with Automoton powers. I have, on occassion, built an NPC with Takes No Stun and Does Not Bleed. In a FH campaign, it shouldn't be too overpowering. That is a HUGE chunk of points to sock away on such a limited budget, and that is definately one of those powers that should NEVER be limited. Pay the full on price for it and there goes a fair chunk of your points. I imagine that it would all balance out in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretID Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC Isn't being undead just a lot of life support? He doesn't age, breathe, eat or sleep, he isn't vulnerable to poisons, etc. It doesn't sound like the no stun is somehow central to the concept, so you wouldn't have to muck around with the automaton issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtFool Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC I think full Life Support and Does Not Bleed covers the basics. It will probably be a bit expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC I think full Life Support and Does Not Bleed covers the basics. It will probably be a bit expensive. Actually I'd be selective with the life support which will bring the cost down a bit - some extreme environments will probably be threatening even to a dead body. Cold might not be (unless he freezes solid), but put him somewhere with lots of open flame and he might have a problem. Especially if he has been preserved with bitumen cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC Why would you want to build a character as an automaton? So that you do not need to worry about stun damage, presumably, and they will never be KO'd or stunned. Well, I can imagine even a zombie getting damaged enough that their mystical connection gets temporarily scrambled and, whilst they are not actually unconscious or stunned, they are out of commission for a little while. Change the terminology, keep the mechanics and just build a decent brick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC Ditto on what Sean said. LS, then some extras like +CON only to resist stunning might do ya. Not bleeding might be covered with some Aid to patch him up to 1 BODY if he gets hurt, and a Distinctive Feature. Maybe add Regeneration, OAF (requires needle and thread) for limbs. I've also see "doesn't get hurt" bought as Armor 10PD/10ED. He can get stuck a lot but it doesn't really hurt him. Stuff like that. Maybe tart up his backstory a little to make it fit the mechanics better. Why does he still get stunned sometimes? See, he's free-willed, and does cling to a bit of his humanity. His soul is still around, loosely attched to his body, causing him to act like a mortal in some ways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC I'm looking at the number of posts and assuming you are fairly new to Hero. Everyone has made very helpful comments on how you might go ahead with this. One of the main tricks in Hero is precision about what you intend to buiild. You said you wanted an undead necromancer. I'm assuming that you have the necromancer bit covered with some magic system and a few spells. When you say undead, however, what exactly do you mean? There are many kinds of undead and each of them have different specs. Your player may simply want the story potential of being undead with no real benefit over normal PCs then it could simply be a distinctive feature where the PC will show up on detects etc. If the player wants more than that - advantages or drawbacks then they need to sit down and think out exactly what they mean by undead. A vampire is undead with lots of cool abilities but a few major drawbacks. The suggestions above indicate some of teh ways you could model aspects of being undead but the player really needs to define what is meant by undead before you go into the detail of trying to build it. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywyll Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC Personally, I have no problem with Automaton powers on a PC. I think there are plenty of justifiable builds that warrent it, and I disagree with the caveat of "not for players". I don't think in a system like Hero were everything is balanced by cost, that there should be anything that is automatically denied to PCs just 'cause'. If the power is broken, its cost should be higher. If its not, then its fair game. Granted, your Necro might not be able to afford the wonderfulness that is undeath. You might create some spells that fill him with even more necrotic power and during those times, he's getting all the automaton benefits. Saying a zombie loses its mystical connection when it takes enough of a beating implies its mystical connection can be lost. If it doesn't in your world, then don't let the mechanics define the story, I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC Although some Automaton Powers - like Does Not Bleed - I don't see any problem with, I would be wary of allowing any variation of Takes No Stun. ESPECIALLY if you're new at this. But I would agree that you and the player need to figure out exactly what "undead" means to you, and let the power set and disadvantages flow from that. Lucius Alexander Explaining an analog concept to a binary palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Ofeelya Posted September 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC I'm looking at the number of posts and assuming you are fairly new to Hero. Pretty new. I have only been using Hero since 1983. Just never had a concept like this to deal with before. The player is one of those who is never happy with building a "normal' character. Thanks for the ideas guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC Pretty new. I have only been using Hero since 1983. That was 23 years ago and you say you are only 32! You were too young to be playing Champions then...I was playing in '83 and felt a bit too young at 18! And if you've been playing that long why haven't you been on the boards more? Let us know how you get on - we're always desperate for stuff to talk about.... Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC we're always desperate for stuff to talk about.... Not that desperate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Ofeelya Posted October 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC That was 23 years ago and you say you are only 32! You were too young to be playing Champions then...I was playing in '83 and felt a bit too young at 18! And if you've been playing that long why haven't you been on the boards more? Let us know how you get on - we're always desperate for stuff to talk about.... Doc You read things wrong - my post count was 32. My age is somewhat older. In fact, I have half a decade on you Doc. As to boards, only joined recently. Have been away from gaming for three years and have only recently restarted a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgar Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC Yeah, I'm pretty much of the opinion that if Advantages exist that model what you are trying to model, you should use them instead of trying to come up with some oddball backdoor method with "non-restricted" powers. Most of the Automaton powers really don't seem that bad to me. I don't see why not to use them when appropriate. It's more of an "Ask Your GM First" thing in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC That was 23 years ago and you say you are only 32! You were too young to be playing Champions then...I was playing in '83 and felt a bit too young at 18! And if you've been playing that long why haven't you been on the boards more? Let us know how you get on - we're always desperate for stuff to talk about.... Doc I started gaming at 12. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary thinks 11 is an even better age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adventus Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC I had a player whose character was dead in a post holocaust campaign. He had damage resistance with ipe. The visual effect was you pt a hole in him but did no real damage. He had various life supports. Even had a death certificate in game. Signed by a doctor in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC I would model it something like this: 12.....Undead Body: Armor (4 PD/4 ED) [0] 15.....Undead Body: Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 25% [0] 41.....Undead Organs: Life Support (Eating: Character only has to eat ........once per year; Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare ........agents; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; ........Longevity: Immortal; Safe in Intense Cold; Self-Contained Breathing; ........Sleeping: Character only has to sleep 8 hours per year) [0] 03.....Undead State: Simulate Death 71.....Total Options 25.....Chilling Touch: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Penetrating (+1/2), ........Armor Piercing (x2; +1) (37 Active Points); No Range (-1/2) 40.....Ghost Form: Desolidification (affected by Holy Objects) 20.....Wight Strength: +20 Strength -6.....Shambling Dead: -3" Running -20...Grave Rot: Distinctive Features: Rotting Smell (Not ........Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By ........Commonly-Used Senses) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC I had a player whose character was dead in a post holocaust campaign. He had damage resistance with ipe. The visual effect was you pt a hole in him but did no real damage. I still think putting IPE on Body matches the effect better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Re: Help Required. Undead PC Except that I would use a higher armor value (10PD/5ED or so), I think Sketchpad is right on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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