Bronze Armor Values

[Vondy]

Quick question:

 

What would you put the armor value for a bronze cuirass, vambraces, and grives at?

 

Also, the oblong hoplons with the two half circles cut out of the sides - do they have a specific name? And what purpose do the cut outs serve (a place to push a weapon through, visibility)?

[Curufea]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

Mainly for thrusting spears. Spears were the weapon de jour for the bronze age.

[LordGhee]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

One they reduce weight, two you can rest your spear in them and when you stand with locked sheilds you have a neat hole to thrust thru and lastly you can trap an oppents weapon with an arm twist. In use I personaly did not like trick shields some people love them tho.

 

Lord Ghee

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

As for the bronze armor, 2 less Def than steel is what's suggested in FH, and sounds about right to me for the all metal armors. I disagree with going across the board with it however... I don't see bronze studded leather, for instance, to really be much less protective than iron studded leather.

[LordGhee]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

If everyone is wearing bronze then plate is plate, with the random Iron wepaon consider "magic or special". (how I handle it for my Greek game.

 

Lord Ghee

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

That depends. If your weapons are doing 5d6 killing damage, then 15 DEF might be about right. If your weapons are doing 2d6 killing damage, then 6 DEF might be about right. In other words, you'll have to decide for yourself.

[gojira]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

I *think* bronze would have to be made pretty thick so it could stand up to punishment. Being softer than steel, I assume so anyway.

 

So I'd give it darn high values, at least the same as steel, but I'd make it heavy and high encumbrance too.

 

Also, being heavy, I assume that it wouldn't cover the body like a medieval suit of armor. I also assume that leather garments were used to supplement protection. So I'd also consider coverage, and give it values in between full plate and leather. Assume the vitals, lower legs and head are covered in bronze, and other places by leather. Don't forget the big shield.

 

But all this is supposition on my part.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

I *think* bronze would have to be made pretty thick so it could stand up to punishment. Being softer than steel, I assume so anyway.

 

So I'd give it darn high values, at least the same as steel, but I'd make it heavy and high encumbrance too.

 

Also, being heavy, I assume that it wouldn't cover the body like a medieval suit of armor. I also assume that leather garments were used to supplement protection. So I'd also consider coverage, and give it values in between full plate and leather. Assume the vitals, lower legs and head are covered in bronze, and other places by leather. Don't forget the big shield.

 

But all this is supposition on my part.

Heavy bronze age armor would, AFAIK, usually consist of a bronze breastplate, helmet, greaves, vambraces, all plate metal, and a girdle/skirting (whose name escapes me at the moment) of leather with plates. decent to good coverage.

 

Upon further thought, I think I'm shifting my opinion to the Bronze armor is the same DEF, but better quality weapons should penetrate it better school of thought.

[Basil]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

Heavy bronze age armor would' date=' AFAIK, usually consist of a bronze breastplate, helmet, greaves, vambraces, all plate metal, and a girdle/skirting (whose name escapes me at the moment) of leather with plates.[/quote']

 

They're called pteruges.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

They're called pteruges.

 

Pthanks

[LordGhee]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

do you all pay attention

 

mardok posted a pic of a suit of bronze plate on a other thread

 

gone looking

 

Lord Ghee

[LordGhee]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

back

 

 

here: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1142931#post1142931

 

 

stone age help thread good stuff on bronze ect.

 

Lord Ghee

[Vondy]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

I *think* bronze would have to be made pretty thick so it could stand up to punishment. Being softer than steel, I assume so anyway.

 

So I'd give it darn high values, at least the same as steel, but I'd make it heavy and high encumbrance too.

 

Also, being heavy, I assume that it wouldn't cover the body like a medieval suit of armor. I also assume that leather garments were used to supplement protection. So I'd also consider coverage, and give it values in between full plate and leather. Assume the vitals, lower legs and head are covered in bronze, and other places by leather. Don't forget the big shield.

 

But all this is supposition on my part.

 

Back in the 70's there was an anthropologist who declared the examples of bronze age artifacts we have - which had thin layers of bronze 1MM to 1.5 MM thick - must have been ceremonial because he was able to cut them apart easily with metal sheares. Practical tests taking bronze weapons and hitting exact replicas of such items repeatedly, however, has pretty much demonstrated they really did work as the histories advertise. That thin layer of material (on top of wood or sturdy leather) was tough enough to soak the punishment of the battlefield. There is still debate, but from the academic papers I've read, it seems generally accepted that the actual thickness of most armor was around 1-1.5 MM, and did not exceed 2MM.

[Vondy]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

That depends. If your weapons are doing 5d6 killing damage' date=' then 15 DEF might be about right. If your weapons are doing 2d6 killing damage, then 6 DEF might be about right. In other words, you'll have to decide for yourself. [/quote']

 

Most weapons will be in the 1-2d6KA range. I'm not doing martial arts (with one exception), and talents to boost damage will be the exception, rather than the rule. If you want to up the damage you'll need some extra strength, or to convert skill levels to damage.

[gojira]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

Practical tests taking bronze weapons and hitting exact replicas of such items repeatedly' date=' however, has pretty much demonstrated they really did work as the histories advertise. That thin layer of material (on top of wood or sturdy leather) was tough enough to soak the punishment of the battlefield. [/quote']

 

Which does make sense.

 

When I was in the SCA, we had a mechanical engineering student who started using lighter gauge mild steel for his armor. His contention was that although the light gauge steel deformed more, that actually meant that the energy of the blow was going into deforming the metal, and not being transmitted into his arm or other body parts.

 

He always had some work to do after a fight, banging out dings in his armor. But because the metal was softer and thinner, it was easier to bang back into shape too. I don't recall that he ever got hurt.

 

He also pointed out that the 19 gauge mild steel he was using was cheap and easy to get. Go to a wrecking yard, and you could buy a car side panel or hood for less than $10. Lots of 19 gauge mild steel in one of those babies.

[Markdoc]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

Upon further thought' date=' I think I'm shifting my opinion to the Bronze armor is the same DEF, but better quality weapons should penetrate it better school of thought.[/quote']

 

That'd be my thought too. Like others, I am sceptical of the idea that putting bronze studs on leather armour would covert it something giving the same protective value as blancmange, so no "X DEF minus" for me.

 

The simple approach I use is simply that armor made of bronze has the same DEF but i is 50% heavier than steel - which seems close enough to real examples to work.

 

cheers, Mark

[pinecone]

Re: Bronze Armor Values

 

I concur, to bolster the argument, Romans in mail fought Phlangites in bronze and the commanders gave a speach about how the heavy bronze armor would tire their enemys out...but they did not claim it was inferior protection ....This was Republican Rome vs macidonia.....